Rule changers

[Caveira]

5 hours ago, wrestle87 said:

Every good high school and college wrestler from the 90’s to the late 2000’s, maybe early 2010’s, but particularly those who made it far in the ncaa tournament with a standup and zero offense

-the dropdown to a single stalling count rule, best rule change in my lifetime

I suspect that was Dillon from Lehigh 

[mspart]

Kolat was responsible for at least 2 rule changes.   Taping shoe laces and if a match is overturned on review, it must be rewrestled. 

mspart

[D3UC157]

Not a change but “increased emphasis” from Retherford’s facewashing. Others were doing it but he was the poster-boy

[1032004]

6 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I think this was an "all-sports thing."  I'd be curious if it was allowed in other individual sports.

I thought it was allowed in lacrosse, but apparently not.

Not sure about other sports, but this was an excerpt from his Wikipedia page - 

“After Haselrig's run of NCAA titles, the Division I Wrestling Committee voted to rescind the bids to the Division II and III champions”

[gimpeltf]

8 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Not sure about other sports, but this was an excerpt from his Wikipedia page - 

“After Haselrig's run of NCAA titles, the Division I Wrestling Committee voted to rescind the bids to the Division II and III champions”

What I recall was that they had rescinded it a couple years earlier but allowed anyone that had attended NCAAs already to be grandfathered in to go again if they still had eligibility and made the D2 finals or won D3s.

And it wasn't the rules committee that did this. It was the NCAA bean counters.

Edited December 18, 2023 by gimpeltf

[mspart]

It is really a shame.   But on the other hand, typically there is just a world of difference between D1 and the others.   Now maybe that is because of the rule change.   There was a guy in MN named Marcus Lavasser (I think that is how it is spelled) and he could have been a D1 champ, but chose DIII instead.   He was undefeated and a 4 time DIII champ.   Apparently couldn't hack the academic side of U of MN. 

mspart

[Hammerlock3]

i heard from a d1 coach that hands to the face was because of retherford.

[Jim L]

4 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Hobart was a great D3 lax program.  St. Lawrence and Union are D3 schools who have competed and won at the D1 level.  Has RPI ever won a hockey title?

One of my training partners was amongst the last lower division guys to qualify for D1, so at the time it seemed like something that happened all the time in college sports.  That may have been why I thought that. (and Haselrig was in our conference)

RPI did win a D1 hockey title in the mid 80s. Lake Superior State also had some championship hockey teams

[HarryConnickJr]

2 hours ago, mspart said:

It is really a shame.   But on the other hand, typically there is just a world of difference between D1 and the others.   Now maybe that is because of the rule change.   There was a guy in MN named Marcus Lavasser (I think that is how it is spelled) and he could have been a D1 champ, but chose DIII instead.   He was undefeated and a 4 time DIII champ.   Apparently couldn't hack the academic side of U of MN. 

mspart

He went D1 for a season as an RS at U of M behind Lawrence and Becker then went to Augsburg and also played football

[nhs67]

They need a rule to prevent this pathetic-ass excuse for ducking that the Cornell coaching squad just put on.

[Hammerlock3]

37 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

They need a rule to prevent this pathetic-ass excuse for ducking that the Cornell coaching squad just put on.

the incentive structures are killing us. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

15 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Not sure about other sports, but this was an excerpt from his Wikipedia page - 

“After Haselrig's run of NCAA titles, the Division I Wrestling Committee voted to rescind the bids to the Division II and III champions”

Yeah... Wikipedia far from the best source of info.  Maybe true, but I wouldn't count on it.

I was wrestling in the D2 East Region at that time, and no one referred to it as the "Haselrig rule" or even said it was about Haselrig. And we had a qualifier.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

14 hours ago, gimpeltf said:

What I recall was that they had rescinded it a couple years earlier but allowed anyone that had attended NCAAs already to be grandfathered in to go again if they still had eligibility and made the D2 finals or won D3s.

And it wasn't the rules committee that did this. It was the NCAA bean counters.

Yes, my training partner was grandfathered in.

[Jim L]

5 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Yeah... Wikipedia far from the best source of info.  Maybe true, but I wouldn't count on it.

I was wrestling in the D2 East Region at that time, and no one referred to it as the "Haselrig rule" or even said it was about Haselrig. And we had a qualifier.

My memory is that D1 coaches claimed that it was because D2/D3 wrestlers did not have the academic requirements to remain eligible as D1 athletes. I believe this was about the time when the NCAA started implementing minimum academics achievement in HS for athletes to qualify for D1 scholarships.  Are those rules still in place? It seemed like that used to be  news story every year about a top athlete struggling or not meeting standards.

I think there was widespread feeling that D1 coaches did not like the prospect of losing to a lower division wrestler.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 minute ago, Jim L said:

My memory is that D1 coaches claimed that it was because D2/D3 wrestlers did not have the academic requirements to remain eligible as D1 athletes. I believe this was about the time when the NCAA started implementing minimum academics achievement in HS for athletes to qualify for D1 scholarships.  Are those rules still in place? It seemed like that used to be  news story every year about a top athlete struggling or not meeting standards.

I think there was widespread feeling that D1 coaches did not like the prospect of losing to a lower division wrestler.

I think there's something to all of that.  Meanwhile schools such as MIT, Williams College, Wesleyan, etc. have some of the best academics in the world.

[jchapman]

39 minutes ago, Jim L said:

My memory is that D1 coaches claimed that it was because D2/D3 wrestlers did not have the academic requirements to remain eligible as D1 athletes. I believe this was about the time when the NCAA started implementing minimum academics achievement in HS for athletes to qualify for D1 scholarships.  Are those rules still in place? It seemed like that used to be  news story every year about a top athlete struggling or not meeting standards.

I think there was widespread feeling that D1 coaches did not like the prospect of losing to a lower division wrestler.

My son just signed an NLI to play D1 baseball.  Yes, there specific courses that a high school student athlete has to complete successfully in order to be eligible for D1.  In fact, my son had to switch out of a creative writing class this last fall because it wasn't approved as an English core course by the NCAA.

Edited December 19, 2023 by jchapman

[Ban Basketball]

I've been waiting for my third culture cancellation on here to expire to be able to reply to this thread.  Precisely because of these types of contributions that I can add as to why a drunken, spiteful, late night hissy fit that turns access off to those our mods get their feelings hurt by needs to be re-considered. If nothing else,  toughen up a little,  as we used to say in Minnesota. 

I'm a bit surprised that no one thought of this rule changer, but over the 25+ years that I've followed college wrestling closely,  this one is the ultimate rule change/changer...

...Craig Henning.  Craig Henning lost in the NCAA finals in 2007. In 2008, he never even made it out of the conference tournament and the wrestling community said that that will NEVER happen again. 

So, since 2008, we've had the goofy allocation system in place that allows anyone in the Big 10 and Big 12 to "qualify" for the Big Dance, simply because they're upright and breathing after the conference tournament. 

Now THAT is a rule changer, friends. 

 

[Bigbrog]

NOOOOOOOOO!!!!  Bob/Husker why??????

[lu_alum]

Since we included Kolat’s international rule changes, we need to include Gene Mills’ desire to score 100 pts in a bout as the driver for the Tech Fall…

https://www.flowrestling.org/video/6520717-tech-falls-were-invented-because-of-gene-mills


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[11986]

8 minutes ago, lu_alum said:

Since we included Kolat’s international rule changes, we need to include Gene Mills’ desire to score 100 pts in a bout as the driver for the Tech Fall…

https://www.flowrestling.org/video/6520717-tech-falls-were-invented-because-of-gene-mills


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

anyone know the biggest margin of victory in NCAA tournament, pre tech-fall days? Pretty sure I saw a 32-0 win for one of the Gibbons brothers one year. Figure that's hard to beat.

Gene rolled some guys too, for sure. Think he had a 28-4 win his senior year at NCAAs, his only non pin win that year.  

[Ban Basketball]

18 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

NOOOOOOOOO!!!!  Bob/Husker why??????

Why does free speech make you so uncomfortable, especially when it breaks no rules?

[Wrestleknownothing]

4 minutes ago, Ban Basketball said:

Why does free speech make you so uncomfortable, especially when it breaks no rules?

Wait. The government banned you? I thought you said it was the owner of this board.

[Ban Basketball]

9 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Wait. The government banned you? I thought you said it was the owner of this board.

Can't get gubment versus private functions by you,  can I Jefferson? 

Toughen up.

Edited February 21 by Ban Basketball

[Wrestleknownothing]

7 minutes ago, Ban Basketball said:

Can't get gubment versus private functions by you,  can I Jefferson? 

Toughen up.

Ironic that the guy doing all the whining thinks others need to toughen up.

[Ban Basketball]

2 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Ironic that the guy doing all the whining thinks others need to toughen up.

Done no whining. 

Let it be, ok? Don't muck up a benign thread because of some curious vendetta, ok, Jefferson?

Thanks.