Lindenwood to Drop Men's Wrestling

[Tom formerly Tofurky]

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/college/lindenwood-to-make-sweeping-cuts-in-athletics-eliminating-10-programs/article_fb606a9e-9092-11ee-beaf-ff06f7dd0d01.html

Sad

[Wrestleknownothing]

That blows

[Show_Me]

After building their Program through the years to finally transition to D1 … then this.  

This really blows for the State of Missouri & Wrestling in general.  Super disappointing.

[Wrestej]

Wish I could take back the money I spent for my daughter’s education to Lindenwood.  Was super excited win they went D1 on to jump up and down on the sport I’m passionate about.  Sons a bitches.

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

That sucks that it took place during a transition to D1…. It’s always about money and never about the betterment of young people 

[CHROMEBIRD]

Bizarre timing for the announcement, right as end of year donation season is ramping up and while student athletes prepare for fall semester finals. Is it to clean up their 2023 numbers as part of the D1 transition?

[Southend]

  On 12/2/2023 at 4:18 PM, Wrestej said:

Sons a bitches.

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This

[KCMO2]

They shouldn't have been DI in the first place.  When you go from DII to DI, you jump from 36 to 63 full ride football scholarships.  A school like Lindenwood with 7,000 students can't afford that for long before having to cut some other programs.  All about the Benjamins.

[Show_Me]

Any info regarding attempts to somehow keep/fund the Program ?

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

  On 12/3/2023 at 11:49 PM, Show_Me said:

Any info regarding attempts to somehow keep/fund the Program ?

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They mentioned no donor support will keep them around. 
 

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

This is interesting that Lindenwood will maintain a women’s wrestling team, I guess that is the silver lining 

[Jason Bryant]

  On 12/4/2023 at 12:54 AM, FanOfPurdueWrestling said:

They mentioned no donor support will keep them around. 
 

Money talks these days … although it’s not like Lindenwood alumni have the type of clout in the business world like Stanford alumni are.

[wrestle87]

This isn’t a Lindenwood hating wrestling thing, this is an enrollment tanking and Lindenwood having to burn $40 million (10% of free assets) annually to keep the lights on thing. 

You heard it here first, institutional financial viability is the next great challenge college wrestling will face.  Many colleges/universities that are home to wrestling programs operate literally tuition paycheck to tuition paycheck, they have no resiliency to enrollment declined.  If you want to save wrestling programs, tell your school to do a better job recruiting China, India and Vietnam.  International enrollment will save wrestling programs.

[flyingcement]

  On 12/4/2023 at 2:22 AM, wrestle87 said:

This isn’t a Lindenwood hating wrestling thing, this is an enrollment tanking and Lindenwood having to burn $40 million (10% of free assets) annually to keep the lights on thing. 

You heard it here first, institutional financial viability is the next great challenge college wrestling will face.  Many colleges/universities that are home to wrestling programs operate literally tuition paycheck to tuition paycheck, they have no resiliency to enrollment declined.  If you want to save wrestling programs, tell your school to do a better job recruiting China, India and Vietnam.  International enrollment will save wrestling programs.

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excellent insights - thank you

[Winners Circle]

  On 12/4/2023 at 12:55 AM, FanOfPurdueWrestling said:

This is interesting that Lindenwood will maintain a women’s wrestling team, I guess that is the silver lining 

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I'm sure this helps with Title 9. 

[bnwtwg]

So the prestigious football alumni of

*checks notes*

A middle of flyover country wannabe athletic startup is cool with cutting all its lifeblood athletics teams?

Who are they going to ask for money? Not sure if they got the memo about Missouri being poor, or the significant lack of philanthropy, or the fact that LU is trying to make itself a second-tier athletic institution in its own state. But they just self-removed their own goodwill from their small donor base. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face...

 

[ionel]

  On 12/4/2023 at 12:54 AM, FanOfPurdueWrestling said:

They mentioned no donor support will keep them around. 
 

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  On 12/4/2023 at 2:09 AM, Jason Bryant said:

Money talks these days … although it’s not like Lindenwood alumni have the type of clout in the business world like Stanford alumni are.

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The Nebraska football coach recently discussed what it takes to get a top football QB - $1-2M.  We know top wrestling programs are pay 6 figures per year.  Look at Oregon St, they lost their conference and prob TV contract, the b10 just stole their FB coach the money sport.  How long can their non-revenue sports survive, they are now competing in a state with Oregon and their massive new TV money.  The Lindenwoods don't even have a chance, this is just the tip of the NIL iceberg. 

[wrestle87]

  On 12/4/2023 at 4:21 PM, ionel said:

 

The Nebraska football coach recently discussed what it takes to get a top football QB - $1-2M.  We know top wrestling programs are pay 6 figures per year.  Look at Oregon St, they lost their conference and prob TV contract, the b10 just stole their FB coach the money sport.  How long can their non-revenue sports survive, they are now competing in a state with Oregon and their massive new TV money.  The Lindenwoods don't even have a chance, this is just the tip of the NIL iceberg. 

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NIL is goinv to change things, but Lindenwood has the scale to be successful, the heads of the school have just dropped the ball hard in the past decade.

The school stood by and watched as enrollment dropped precipitously.  Total enrollment has gone from 12K to 7K students, and undergrad enrollment has dropped from 8K to 4K students.  That is an absolute gutting.

NIL is important, but the average university runs on at least $100mil a year budget, NIL money is small compared to the other allocations they make.

If you are thinking about where to send your kids, look into a form called the 990 or the annual financial audit.  That will tell you how long the reputation of a school will be in tact. 

[Jason Bryant]

  On 12/4/2023 at 4:21 PM, ionel said:

 

The Nebraska football coach recently discussed what it takes to get a top football QB - $1-2M.  We know top wrestling programs are pay 6 figures per year.  Look at Oregon St, they lost their conference and prob TV contract, the b10 just stole their FB coach the money sport.  How long can their non-revenue sports survive, they are now competing in a state with Oregon and their massive new TV money.  The Lindenwoods don't even have a chance, this is just the tip of the NIL iceberg. 

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Every single one of them (at the D1 level) is in danger if the NCAA ever lifts the minimum sport sponsorship requirement to be Division I. 

[forkemaz]

  On 12/4/2023 at 2:09 AM, Jason Bryant said:

Money talks these days … although it’s not like Lindenwood alumni have the type of clout in the business world like Stanford alumni are.

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If money talks none of these teams would even have a women's program. The truth is they do what they want and the wrestling community takes it a lot of the time. It's not about money it's a complete lack of respect. I can guarantee male wrestling is not the their biggest cost to value ratio. 

[Jason Bryant]

  On 12/4/2023 at 5:17 PM, forkemaz said:

If money talks none of these teams would even have a women's program. The truth is they do what they want and the wrestling community takes it a lot of the time. It's not about money it's a complete lack of respect. I can guarantee male wrestling is not the their biggest cost to value ratio. 

I think you missed the point of my statement.

[MizzouFan01]

  On 12/4/2023 at 4:35 PM, wrestle87 said:

NIL is goinv to change things, but Lindenwood has the scale to be successful, the heads of the school have just dropped the ball hard in the past decade.

The school stood by and watched as enrollment dropped precipitously.  Total enrollment has gone from 12K to 7K students, and undergrad enrollment has dropped from 8K to 4K students.  That is an absolute gutting.

NIL is important, but the average university runs on at least $100mil a year budget, NIL money is small compared to the other allocations they make.

If you are thinking about where to send your kids, look into a form called the 990 or the annual financial audit.  That will tell you how long the reputation of a school will be in tact. 

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How much of a difference are the requirements to attend(be admitted) to a D1 over a D2 or NAIA? Do the admissions requirements change as you go up levels? If so I’m sure that could be apart of the reason for enrollment droppage. 

[wrestle87]

  On 12/5/2023 at 6:08 AM, MizzouFan01 said:

How much of a difference are the requirements to attend(be admitted) to a D1 over a D2 or NAIA? Do the admissions requirements change as you go up levels? If so I’m sure that could be apart of the reason for enrollment droppage. 

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For athletes, I think they are purely in terms of total achievement.  In terms of non-athlete admission, that’s entirely dependent upon the selectivity of each school.  But, generally speaking, selectivity tracks directly to financial wellbeing of the school.  The inflection point is $1 billion in the endowment.  Above that, schools make more off endowment returns than tuition, and they can let in whoever they like.  Below $500mil, schools really need each year’s tuition revenue, and they do whatever they can to get students to show up and pay tuition.

For some schools, nothing works, or their strategy is trash, and…like lindenwood…enrollment tanks.

This also tracks directly to low enrollment or poor offerings in the best majors which provide college students an reasonable expectation of good employment, for undergrad these are  compsci, bio/biomed, engineering, and business. 

[forkemaz]

  On 12/5/2023 at 1:03 AM, Jason Bryant said:

I think you missed the point of my statement.

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You were saying something everyone says that is false. It wasn't a true statement. It's not about money it's about respect. The women's wrestling team in bring in more money? I doubt it but maybe. Right now people respect women's wrestling and men's wrestling has none. No one cares we are the world champs.... no one cared. But there's a hunger for women's freestyle at the college level? It's not about money.

 

Appreciate all you do man. I know you work hard.

[Jason Bryant]

  On 12/5/2023 at 12:57 PM, forkemaz said:

You were saying something everyone says that is false. It wasn't a true statement. It's not about money it's about respect. The women's wrestling team in bring in more money? I doubt it but maybe. Right now people respect women's wrestling and men's wrestling has none. No one cares we are the world champs.... no one cared. But there's a hunger for women's freestyle at the college level? It's not about money.
 
Appreciate all you do man. I know you work hard.

What you took from what I said and what I said aren’t the same. Let me clarify - if you aren’t coming to the table with big money, university administrators aren’t going to consider saving sports. What they claim and what they’ll actually listen to is all dependent upon how many zeros are in the check, provided it’s not only zeros. That’s what I mean with “money talks” in this instance. It’s not about the revenue or tuition money these sports bring in - once schools move to D1, they seem to bail out on that economic model.