Yianni and the Longest Streaks

[Jason Bryant]

Also, win streaks and unbeaten streaks are completely different.  Unbeaten streaks included ties, which we no longer have.  

[Bulwark]

9 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Those in the know seem to be skeptical that he will wrestle Cliff Keen. Regardless of the total, it has been an amazing career.

And why is that? Has Yianni ever ducked anyone?

 

[Bulwark]

Just now, Jason Bryant said:

Also, win streaks and unbeaten streaks are completely different.  Unbeaten streaks included ties, which we no longer have.  

Yes, Kemp has a tie in his 110 unbeaten streak.

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 minute ago, Bulwark said:

And why is that? Has Yianni ever ducked anyone?

 

I made the same argument over on the forum that shall remain nameless, and some of the faithful said they doubted he wrestles Cliff Keen. I know what I don't know, so I am not speculating, just sharing.

[Wrestleknownothing]

6 minutes ago, Jason Bryant said:

Yianni’s streak is 75.

Kemp’s wiki applies current rules to results that counted at the time. I have his entire record in a doc after he called me in 2018 wondering why he wasn’t listed in ESPN’s graphic

Wrestling records in published reports are almost always suspect in the pre-computerization era due to wrestling’s penchant for absolutely stupid rules on what does and doesn’t count. Also, streaks that bridge the era of divisional splits also adds confusion, such as some athletes that competed in the college division, D2 and D3 included and others who did the same excluded. 

I’ve been trying to validate win streaks for years and it’s not easy. I’ve got a pretty robust list on my computer (it might also be accessible via a subscriber link but I’d have to double check) 

yeah, but why aren't you including Yianni's tournament wins?

[BigRedFan]

2 hours ago, Brooklyn Dodger said:

I am not "generally misinformed." I was misinformed about whether the brackets posted the pre-tournament record or the post-tournament record. I guess I assumed the records were pre-tournament as the brackets are printed before the tourney starts. 

 

You'll note that they don't print each bracket's final results pre-tournament, as well.

[Jason Bryant]

3 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

yeah, but why aren't you including Yianni's tournament wins?

Because I know how to read Trackwrestling. 

[BigRedFan]

12 minutes ago, Bulwark said:

And why is that? Has Yianni ever ducked anyone?

 

Yianni has to wrestle 65kg the next week at the UWW World Cup.  Having said that, I'm told that there is a 2kg weight allowance, which means 147.  I honestly don't know what that means for him.  I know he'll be aiming for the WC (revenge for his World Championship final loss), but I don't know his priorities for events other than winning the Ivy League dual season, winning the EIWAs, and winning NCAAs.

I have never had any indication that Yianni, or anyone else at Cornell, has ever ducked anyone.

[Jason Bryant]

20 minutes ago, Bulwark said:

Yes, Kemp has a tie in his 110 unbeaten streak.

Has a loss during his junior year and a tie during his senior year. The L wouldn't count in today's rules and there are no ties now, and with different rulesets applied, you can't retroactively remove losses based on current eligibility. If you did, you'd also have to remove wins, which would drop streaks the other way, too. 

 

[Brooklyn Dodger]

27 minutes ago, Jason Bryant said:

Has a loss during his junior year and a tie during his senior year. The L wouldn't count in today's rules and there are no ties now, and with different rulesets applied, you can't retroactively remove losses based on current eligibility. If you did, you'd also have to remove wins, which would drop streaks the other way, too. 

 

Are you saying that Wiki's statement that Kemp "had a 96-match winning streak" is not true? Are they ignoring the loss?

FWIW, the National Wrestling Hall of Fame says Kemp had "victories in 96 consecutive matches and an unbeaten string of 109 in a row."

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Brooklyn Dodger

[Jason Bryant]

1 hour ago, Brooklyn Dodger said:

Are you saying that Wiki's statement that Kemp "had a 96-match winning streak" is not true? Are they ignoring the loss?

FWIW, the National Wrestling Hall of Fame says Kemp had "victories in 96 consecutive matches and an unbeaten string of 109 in a row."

 

I'm saying it's not accurate. And I know what the HOF's bio says - most, if not all, of those bios are submitted by the members themselves. I went through Kemp's record three years ago, his bio was sent to the HOF in 1990. 

You know very well wikipedia isn't an entity that controls the content, it's available to be edited by anyone. There's incorrect or inaccurate information on wikipedia all over the place. And don't take that as an inference there's nefarious intent to deceive. "They" aren't ignoring something because "they" aren't fact-checking every single thing. The inaccuracy on wikipedia likely references the incorrect information in Kemp's HOF bio. Kemp's own record contradicts the bio. 

 

[Brooklyn Dodger]

18 hours ago, Jason Bryant said:

Has a loss during his junior year and a tie during his senior year. The L wouldn't count in today's rules and there are no ties now, and with different rulesets applied, you can't retroactively remove losses based on current eligibility. If you did, you'd also have to remove wins, which would drop streaks the other way, too. 

 

Why wouldn't the L count today? What happened?

[Brooklyn Dodger]

16 hours ago, Jason Bryant said:

I'm saying it's not accurate. And I know what the HOF's bio says - most, if not all, of those bios are submitted by the members themselves. I went through Kemp's record three years ago, his bio was sent to the HOF in 1990. 

You know very well wikipedia isn't an entity that controls the content, it's available to be edited by anyone. There's incorrect or inaccurate information on wikipedia all over the place. And don't take that as an inference there's nefarious intent to deceive. "They" aren't ignoring something because "they" aren't fact-checking every single thing. The inaccuracy on wikipedia likely references the incorrect information in Kemp's HOF bio. Kemp's own record contradicts the bio. 

 

Of course I know how Wiki works, but that does not mean it cannot be accurate (or inaccurate). But the HoF should certainly be accurate. Even if the the honoree submits his own bio-- weird, if true--  someone should check it before they publish.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Brooklyn Dodger

[Jason Bryant]

28 minutes ago, Brooklyn Dodger said:

Of course I know how Wiki works, but that does not mean it cannot be accurate (or inaccurate). But the HoF should certainly be accurate. Even if the the honoree submits his own bio-- weird, if true--  someone should check it before they publish.

Man, I wonder why they never thought of that? Maybe you should ask Myron Roderick about why they would ever do such a thing. 

31 minutes ago, Brooklyn Dodger said:

Why wouldn't the L count today? What happened?

Because it was against a post-collegian. They don't count those on official records today. 

[nhs67]

1 hour ago, Brooklyn Dodger said:

Of course I know how Wiki works, but that does not mean it cannot be accurate (or inaccurate). But the HoF should certainly be accurate. Even if the the honoree submits his own bio-- weird, if true--  someone should check it before they publish.

You check on your caretakers you done locked up down in your basement in the last few years?

I do hope you have been taking proper care of them.  They are people too!

[Wrestleknownothing]

The other Dan device when he is shown to be wrong - "if true" - has made an appearance.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Wrestleknownothing

[VakAttack]

Hard jinx here.  Carl's position stays safe. 

Edited November 20, 2022 by VakAttack

[jchapman]

On 10/30/2022 at 10:00 PM, Jason Bryant said:

Has a loss during his junior year and a tie during his senior year. The L wouldn't count in today's rules and there are no ties now, and with different rulesets applied, you can't retroactively remove losses based on current eligibility. If you did, you'd also have to remove wins, which would drop streaks the other way, too. 

 

OSU retroactively removed losses from Stieber’s record.

[Wrestleknownothing]

40 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Hard jinx here.  Carl's position stays safe. 

The Curse of Dan?

[lu_alum]

He was 26-0 going into the tournament according the to the NCAA bracket. Then he won five IN the tournament. https://i.turner.ncaa.com/sites/default/files/images/2019/03/22/brackets.pdf
I am getting all my season records from the NCAA brackets.
 
 

They update the records on the brackets as the tournament progresses. The record you see is their final record.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Jason Bryant]

20 hours ago, jchapman said:

OSU retroactively removed losses from Stieber’s record.

One of the pains in the sport - he wrestled attached. I wish I could find the actual "rule" (if there is one) about what matches count and don't, because we are so bass ackwards in how we treat the results sometimes. 

He lost three matches in Vegas, so he's got those losses on his record, I don't care what tOSU says about it. They aren't the arbiter of official results. 

[Formally140]

I kinda zoned out trying to read this. Does Dan. I mean dodger know that the Brackets update your overall record as you go?

[dragit]

11 hours ago, Jason Bryant said:

One of the pains in the sport - he wrestled attached. I wish I could find the actual "rule" (if there is one) about what matches count and don't, because we are so bass ackwards in how we treat the results sometimes. 

He lost three matches in Vegas, so he's got those losses on his record, I don't care what tOSU says about it. They aren't the arbiter of official results. 

Is this correct:  In his first year after high school, he wrestled a little while attached, then they converted him to a non-medical redshirt, under applicable rules, which is now their basis for saying the losses aren't official? 

If so, I think their position seems reasonable.  Otherwise you could have career records based on five years of eligibility. It wouldn't seem right to give him credit for wins if he went undefeated in those matches. 

To me in assessing a career this is the same as a typical redshirt. The wrestler is getting a full year to take losses and ease his way in.

This is a significant part of why I rate Dake as the best college career.  He graduated high school, won an NCAA championship 9 months later, and then did it again the next three Marches. (On top of other attributes, including who he beat in NCAAs, particularly going up in weight to beat the Hodge winner, and how he controlled all his NCAA matches.)

[Jason Bryant]

It was a medical. Prior to this year, you wrestled attached, the traditional redshirt was done. He was attached. If you get a medical, your results, as I have always understood it, count attached. Pretty sure Burroughs record at Nebraska includes his medical RS where he got hurt. They even cite his loss to Steve Brown that year snapping his win streak.

The sport lacks uniformity in record keeping too, something I’ve been desperately trying to rectify. It’s a very slow process though.

[nhs67]

This thread is funny.

DanTheMan coming to DanTheMan's defense is a lovely cherry.