Your thoughts on SCOTUS decision on student loan denial

[Paul158]

Just wanting your thoughts on SCOTUS decision today.

[jross]

The courts are bringing back accountability and common sense.  Students should fulfill their responsibility of repaying the loans they willingly took on.  Anyone that says Jimmy should pay back his gambling debts would surely agree...

That said... the cost of education is too damn high and I'm on board with providing more affordable options moving forward.

[Paul158]

Well said. 

[headshuck]

My kids and I paid a fortune for their education and they will continue to pay what loans they have remaining.

If Universities feel they failed to provide value, they can jump right in and provide a refund.

[Wrestleknownothing]

It is the right decision.

[WrestlingRasta]

I like that they are not being forgiven, but I wish that with that something would be done with the regulations on interest.   It's not the tuition that is burying people in debt but the ridiculous amount of interest.   Financing our population's education should not be one of the most profitable rackets in our country.   But then again I guess when it's only topped by insurance and pharmaceuticals, what do you expect...

[Husker_Du]

the mere concept of student loan forgiveness is fucking stupid.

it's more worrisome that 3 people on the bench voted for it. 

[Husker_Du]

56 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

I like that they are not being forgiven, but I wish that with that something would be done with the regulations on interest.   It's not the tuition that is burying people in debt but the ridiculous amount of interest.   Financing our population's education should not be one of the most profitable rackets in our country.   But then again I guess when it's only topped by insurance and pharmaceuticals, what do you expect...

how is it the interest? who can afford a $500/mo payment but not a $550 one? 

hell i just paid over 10% (since refinanced) for a new car loan. 

you realize that when Biden claimed he'd issue student loan forgiveness all the universities upped tuition. 

blame the schools, not the banks. 

[VakAttack]

17 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

 

blame the schools, not the banks. 

It doesn't have to be one or the other, but either way, what the banks/lenders do is far more predatory than what the schools are doing.

[headshuck]

My wife and I paid the vast majority of the college expense, but the Stafford and Freddie Mac loans were pretty clear on the interest-rate. I suppose if you miss a payment or have to refinance you’re screwed.

[Offthemat]

13 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

It doesn't have to be one or the other, but either way, what the banks/lenders do is far more predatory than what the schools are doing.

I disagree, it’s not banks that offer worthless degrees.  Actually, I thought the gov’t had taken control over education loans under Obama.  I think it would make more sense to let the schools and banks do the financing.  Maybe the schools would be more inclined to graduate students with marketable skills over what they currently produce. 
 

I don’t consider current interest rates to be terribly high, they’re not, historically.  Seniors used to plan on their savings yielding 5% in a CD.  My parents paid about 6% on their home, I had one at 13%, and knew of 18% mortgages.  An economy that has low productivity and inflation outrunning wages is the problem.  

[uncle bernard]

1 hour ago, Husker_Du said:

the mere concept of student loan forgiveness is ***duck duck goose** stupid.

it's more worrisome that 3 people on the bench voted for it. 

the government forgives loans all the time and you don't see conservatives shitting their pants over it then. in fact, that (and tax cuts for the rich and corps) are the backbone of their entire economic model.

for example, rokfin had a $70k PPP loan forgiven. are you going to tell martin to pay that back to the taxpayers?

have fun complaining for the next 30 years when entire generations aren't able to afford homes, kids, take care of their elderly parents, etc...

Edited June 30, 2023 by uncle bernard

[headshuck]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2020/10/25/who-really-owes-16-trillion-of-student-loans/

[mspart]

1 hour ago, VakAttack said:

It doesn't have to be one or the other, but either way, what the banks/lenders do is far more predatory than what the schools are doing.

Vak, can you explain this more?   How is a huge increase in tuition and fees not as predatory as the banks?   

mspart

[poorwrestler]

the government forgives loans all the time and you don't see conservatives shitting their pants over it then. in fact, that (and tax cuts for the rich and corps) are the backbone of their entire economic model.
for example, rokfin had a $70k PPP loan forgiven. are you going to tell martin to pay that back to the taxpayers?
have fun complaining for the next 30 years when entire generations aren't able to afford homes, kids, take care of their elderly parents, etc...

I am of the opinion that the Supreme Court is probably right in that the Biden admin way overstepped in pushing this plan out. However, I agree that it is a little confusing the reaction this plan got from those that sit in silence when big banks, big farmers, big airlines etc. get government bailouts by taxpayer money in the same way. Why is the average student loan payer held to a higher standard?

I also think it’s a terrible long-term outlook for our countries economy to have over a trillion dollars in student loan debt. For many, this will never be paid off and is financially crippling. This fact is bad for all of us, and something should probably be done other than “you made your bed when you were 17 now lie in it”. I’m not sure this blanket forgiveness plan was the right thing. I think there are more nuanced answers than that.


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[mspart]

What I have not heard is the Scotus reasoning on this case.   Was it solid?   How about the dissent?   Was it solid? 

I am not for loan forgiveness in general.   You take out a loan and you pay it back, simple as that.  You don't expect your neighbor to pay it off for you right?  

But more than that, this was attempted to be done by Presidential dictate, not by Congress.   The law they were citing for loan forgiveness was strictly written for servicemen.   How can that then be applied to general population?   If Congress passes bills to the effect, and the President signs them into law, then it is law and we can not be happy but it was done right.   This was not done right, and for that I am grateful SCOTUS stopped this.  

This is not government by a person, it is government by the people.   The people (Congress) had no say in this.   Why?   Because it wouldn't have passed so Joe just said, well, I'll make it happen on my own.    That is not the way to legislate laws.  SCOTUS was correct, dissenters not.  I agree with Husker, the fact that there were dissenters tells me they have no idea what the Constitution says. 

mspart

[VakAttack]

2 minutes ago, mspart said:

Vak, can you explain this more?   How is a huge increase in tuition and fees not as predatory as the banks?   

mspart

Because those fees are up front and easy to understand, and the banks compounding interest is not.  When the financing options are presented to you, they are designed to look simple and easy to understand, like a car payment, but many student loans essentially become negatively amortized by the low-paying jobs students get when they first get into the workforce not matching up with what they were sold when they entered, leading to students being stuck with non-subsidezed compoundingi nterest loans where they end up paying close to double the original loan amount thru interest accruing; that is where the colleges are most at fault and predatory, IMO, in their fudging the numbers on employment rate ("our finance majors are employed at a rate of 94% within 6 months of graduation" while leaving out the fact that many of them are employed as waiters or something unrelated to their degree.)

[Wrestleknownothing]

53 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

the government forgives loans all the time and you don't see conservatives shitting their pants over it then. in fact, that (and tax cuts for the rich and corps) are the backbone of their entire economic model.

for example, rokfin had a $70k PPP loan forgiven. are you going to tell martin to pay that back to the taxpayers?

have fun complaining for the next 30 years when entire generations aren't able to afford homes, kids, take care of their elderly parents, etc...

PPP was only a loan in a technical sense. It was never designed to be paid back. As long as an employer used the money to keep employing, it was forgiven. It was only structured as a loan to make legal recourse simpler if an employer failed to live up to their promise.

[BerniePragle]

So, is a former college student expected to pay back his/her financial obligations, but a real estate developer/former president not expected to?  Isn't that essentially what a bankruptcy is?  Check that...Isn't that essentially what 4 bankruptcies are?

[headshuck]

Did Biden’s program include a “bankruptcy” like filing process?

[WrestlingRasta]

2 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

how is it the interest? who can afford a $500/mo payment but not a $550 one? 

hell i just paid over 10% (since refinanced) for a new car loan. 

you realize that when Biden claimed he'd issue student loan forgiveness all the universities upped tuition. 

blame the schools, not the banks. 

The schools definitely play their part in the scheme. 
 

And I’m sorry you paid 10% interest on a car. That’s god awful! Having a sip for you now…

[mspart]

17 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Because those fees are up front and easy to understand, and the banks compounding interest is not.  When the financing options are presented to you, they are designed to look simple and easy to understand, like a car payment, but many student loans essentially become negatively amortized by the low-paying jobs students get when they first get into the workforce not matching up with what they were sold when they entered, leading to students being stuck with non-subsidezed compoundingi nterest loans where they end up paying close to double the original loan amount thru interest accruing; that is where the colleges are most at fault and predatory, IMO, in their fudging the numbers on employment rate ("our finance majors are employed at a rate of 94% within 6 months of graduation" while leaving out the fact that many of them are employed as waiters or something unrelated to their degree.)

Vak - I agree that students in general (99% of them) don't understand financing and that is the fault of our education system.   That should be as important as the other MATH classes they have to take.   The loan officer will answer questions but if you don't know what to ask, it all sounds rosy.    Honestly I didn't learn until I had to take Engineering Finance.   When I go in for a closing, I know exactly how much will be paying because I have calculated it on my own.   It has saved me several thousand dollars in at least one transaction because the bank snuck in some fees I told them I would not pay.    Everyone should be able to do this.  

I also agree with you that the universities over sell their degrees.   That's on them.   I hope the student loan discussion in the country is having people change their minds about going that direction or going to a stupid expensive university.   Much better approach is CC and then university if a BS or BA is desired.  Cheaper by far. 

mspart

[Paul158]

15 minutes ago, BerniePragle said:

So, is a former college student expected to pay back his/her financial obligations, but a real estate developer/former president not expected to?  Isn't that essentially what a bankruptcy is?  Check that...Isn't that essentially what 4 bankruptcies are?

Oh Bernie give it a rest. Really.

[Le duke]

the mere concept of student loan forgiveness is ***duck duck goose** stupid.
it's more worrisome that 3 people on the bench voted for it. 

Please explain how Missouri had standing here.


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[BerniePragle]

9 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

Oh Bernie give it a rest. Really.

I would have to assume that in Mr. Wonderful's bankruptcies there were people and companies that he (oops, his businesses) owed 100 clams to, that only received 90 clams, 75 clams, 5 clams, etc.  That's pretty much what I'd call not meeting one's financial obligations.  Obviously this is done under cover of a bunch of legal mumbo jumbo, so that it becomes more difficult to see from A to B.  I'm a simple guy.
As I've said numerous times, many more things are misunderstood by making them too complicated than by making them too simple. 

Just making sure we all understand many rich people and corporations do not live up to their financial obligations also.

Now I'll rest.  I think I'll take a nap.