Was Iowa Robbed of Title in 2020??

[pretty_rob]

on Twitter and message boards alike all you see is Iowa was robbed of a title in 2020 due to Covid cancellations. 
At first glance it’s hard to argue against that point. They were loaded and it looked like they were going to win the title in a landslide victory. 
But then you start doing some research and realize they had everyone back from the 2020 team in 2021 and 2022, except for Pat Lugo. 
You would think Lugo was a pretty significant loss except for the fact that they bumped up Murin and replaced him with Jaydin Eierman. If you’re scoring at home that’s an upgrade in my mind. 
So my long-winded question is, Was Iowa really robbed like their fans suggest?
They had a do-over opportunity in 2022 with the ENTIRE cast returning (swapping Eierman for Lugo) and STILL LOST. 
Penn St on the other hand lost Cassar, S. Rasheed, Hall and Joseph from the 2020 season. 
I don’t think we can for sure crown them a mythical 2020 national champ especially since they were granted a 2022 “Do-Over”. 
 

 

[MPhillips]

12 minutes ago, pretty_rob said:

Was Iowa really robbed like their fans suggest?

I don’t think we can for sure crown them a mythical 2020 national champ especially since they were granted a 2022 “Do-Over”. 
 

Pletcher and Moore were robbed with no do over...

[pretty_rob]

Just now, MPhillips said:

Pletcher and Moore were robbed with no do over...

Totally agree.
Kolodzik burnt his Olympic redshirt before conference tourney only for NCAA’s to be cancelled. Another guy who got burned hard. 

[Antitroll2828]

18 minutes ago, pretty_rob said:

on Twitter and message boards alike all you see is Iowa was robbed of a title in 2020 due to Covid cancellations. 
At first glance it’s hard to argue against that point. They were loaded and it looked like they were going to win the title in a landslide victory. 
But then you start doing some research and realize they had everyone back from the 2020 team in 2021 and 2022, except for Pat Lugo. 
You would think Lugo was a pretty significant loss except for the fact that they bumped up Murin and replaced him with Jaydin Eierman. If you’re scoring at home that’s an upgrade in my mind. 
So my long-winded question is, Was Iowa really robbed like their fans suggest?
They had a do-over opportunity in 2022 with the ENTIRE cast returning (swapping Eierman for Lugo) and STILL LOST. 
Penn St on the other hand lost Cassar, S. Rasheed, Hall and Joseph from the 2020 season. 
I don’t think we can for sure crown them a mythical 2020 national champ especially since they were granted a 2022 “Do-Over”. 
 

 

I think it would have been a down to the wire race that would’ve been settled with Hall Kemmerer part 3 , Shakur had beaten Warner at big 10s so those 2 guys tournaments would have played a big roll , But who knows , 133 had RBY , Seabass , Gross, Desanto who knows how that ends up , Lugo was the 1 seed but I don’t think many were predicting him to win ( he’d placed 8th once) 

[LJB]

who wasn't robbed by the boogie bug????

[Tripnsweep]

I'm surprised this isn't a JC post honestly. 

[flyingcement]

23 minutes ago, LJB said:

who wasn't robbed by the boogie bug????

Emotionally i was robbed but financially i gained 

[1032004]

I haven’t seen anyone really bring this up in 2 years, except maybe Hawkeye report, but yes, Iowa was going to win in 2020.

Iowa differences in 2020 vs 2021:

Swap Lugo for Eierman (2nd), Murin at 141 in 2020 compared to 149 in 2021 (R12).  Pretty much a wash.

 

PSU differences in 2020 vs 2021:

Lost Cenzo, Hall, Rasheed, Verk

Gained Starocci (1st), Kerk (7th), Beard (7th), Berge (R16), Howard (R16)

Extremely slim chance that PSU would’ve been +16 points with those changes, and that’s with them having 4 champs in 2021 compared to 1 for Iowa.

 

And yes, this reads like a Jimmy C thread.  A legitimate question mixed in with some blatant trolling, like failing to mention that Spencer Lee didn’t wrestle at 2022 NCAA’s and Eierman was a shell of himself, or that Cassar only wrestled 3 matches in 2020.  It’s not like we’re predicting a whole season in 2020 where more injuries could come into play, the only thing that needed to be wrestled was the tournament.

[98lberEating2Lunches]

I surmise that in 2020 Spencer Lee may've been robbed of one of the two NCAA Team titles, which he had promised Iowa.  Otherwise, he might've made good on this one of his two collegiate goals.

Maybe we can give him an asterisk for the 2-title goal in addition to the one for the health-limited condition, which impacted his 4th individual title.  Asterisks don't cost anything. We can afford to be magnanimous.

[Pinnacle]

Iowa had that core of wrestlers on their roster for 6 or 7 years. Plenty of chances to win titles. 

[ionel]

I feel pretty good about 2020.  As it turns out my chance of NC was just as good as anyone else, even Carl coached kids. 

[82bordeaux]

19 hours ago, Tripnsweep said:

I'm surprised this isn't a JC post honestly. 

JC was robbed of posting this topic himself.

[Pinnacle]

2 hours ago, 82bordeaux said:

JC was robbed of posting this topic himself.

Pretty sure he has posted this thread multiple times. Taken both sides depending on who he is trying to troll. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

7 years? One guy?

And they did win a title.  Would have likely been two.

Edited June 6, 2023 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[hawkguy]

2020 was also the year psu took 4th at big tens, and unlike 2022, kemerer could actually spin his arm in a full circle, and eierman had access to both of his knees. Plus lee over ayala and lugo over murin. Lee was probably having his best year to date in 2020

[Le duke]

Better question: Was Penn State robbed of a title in 2020?


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[Husker_Du]

I cringe every time someone says 'Iowa was robbed'. 

if covid doesn't happen they are favored to win in 2020 (PSU actually had more B1G finalists and we know the track record of each team performing two weeks later). but not 2021. 

it's that simple. net = 

there's really no rationale for them winning two. 

[82bordeaux]

Without covid, Iowa would have been robbed of their total collapse in Detroit in 2022.

[1032004]

6 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

I cringe every time someone says 'Iowa was robbed'. 

if covid doesn't happen they are favored to win in 2020 (PSU actually had more B1G finalists and we know the track record of each team performing two weeks later). but not 2021. 

it's that simple. net = 

there's really no rationale for them winning two. 

Well they won by 15.5 in 2021 with an overall underperformance (including a #1 seed DNP’ing) with essentially the same team they had in 2020, and an overperformance from PSU whose team was pretty comparable to what they had in 2020.

I’d never be shocked by PSU winning, but the chances were pretty slim and I think it’s fair to say Iowa was in all likelihood robbed.  This is a weird post from you though because I’m pretty sure I was one of the few giving PSU a chance in 2021 and IIRC you said there was no way.  After seeing what happened in 2021 you were probably closer to correct back then.  Not impossible, but it would’ve taken a massive implosion for Iowa to lose in 2020 (and another overperformance from PSU, but that would’ve been more likely).

[Pinnacle]

One team's underperformance is actually just their norm. The other's over performance is their norm. 

You get what you earn. 

[1032004]

1 minute ago, Pinnacle said:

One team's underperformance is actually just their norm. The other's over performance is their norm. 

You get what you earn. 

The point is Iowa underperformed and PSU overperformed in 2021…and Iowa still won by 15.5.

[Pinnacle]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

The point is Iowa underperformed and PSU overperformed in 2021…and Iowa still won by 15.5.

But that was an Iowa team where everyone got to hang on forever vs. a very young PSU team. Plus, Iowa does get credit for winning that year even though PSU never got a 4th year from Hall and Cenzo which may have tipped the scales in their favor. What they don't get credit for is winning a title that never happened, meaning 2020. 

[1032004]

28 minutes ago, Pinnacle said:

But that was an Iowa team where everyone got to hang on forever vs. a very young PSU team. Plus, Iowa does get credit for winning that year even though PSU never got a 4th year from Hall and Cenzo which may have tipped the scales in their favor. What they don't get credit for is winning a title that never happened, meaning 2020. 

"But" nothing.  2021 actually happened.  There is nothing to speculate about in regards to 2021.   Are you just making up scenarios now where a free year was given to 2020 seniors for 2021?   Hall is a wash if that's what you're implying, because if he's in the lineup Starocci isn't. 

Essentially it comes down to if you think Cenzo/Rasheed/Verkleeren in 2020 could outscore Kerkvliet/Beard/Berge/Howard in 2021 by 16 (assuming PSU still wins at 133, 141, and 174 and Lee is Iowa's only champ).  Highly doubtful, unless you start getting into scenarios like Lee pulling a 2023.

[VakAttack]

Iowa was a bigger favorite in 2020 than they were in 2021.  They weren't robbed of a title per se, but they were robbed of the very likely opportunity to win one.  Collegiate wrestling is a grind, and by 2022, the guys were still there but even more ground down.  However, again, I would characterize it as losing the opportunity at a very likely title.  2020 was Iowa's strongest year and Penn State's weakest in a long while; they took 4th in the B1G tournament, not second.  Iowa lost their opportunity, as did many very great individual wrestlers like Kollin Moore, Luke Pletcher, Pat Lugo,, Matt Kolodzik (among the athletes who suffered the worst from an athletic perspective), Mark Hall, Vincenzo Joseph.  Then you had guys losing what might have been their best opportunities for a title (Sasso, Rivera, Marinelli).  All spilt milk though.  It sucks, but it is what it is; but for COVID, Iowa is extremely likely to have won two titles and Spencer Lee probably has his 4 titles.  They don't though, and ain't nothing changing that.

[1032004]

35 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Essentially it comes down to if you think Cenzo/Rasheed/Verkleeren in 2020 could outscore Kerkvliet/Beard/Berge/Howard in 2021 by 16 (assuming PSU still wins at 133, 141, and 174 and Lee is Iowa's only champ).  Highly doubtful, unless you start getting into scenarios like Lee pulling a 2023.

sorry this should say assuming PSU still wins at 133, 141, 174 & 184.  Keep in mind 2020 was Brooks' true freshman year, 133 had Gross & Rivera who both had wins over RBY that year, and Nick Lee had just lost to Pletcher at B10's.