Attendance numbers at the open

[Caveira]

All those freestyle style rule change backers.   What was the attendance at the open.  I’m surprised people didn’t turn out in droves to watch dozens of multi time ncaa champions… the biggest / second biggest domestic tournament in Las Vegas.  Vegas is a tough spot to get to right?    

[PortaJohn]

This is quite a tasteful post

[Formally140]

The style of venue matters…

[Caveira]

The style of venue is a cop out.  It’s simply not more entertaining than the current folk style product.    

[PortaJohn]

10 minutes ago, Caveira said:

The style of venue is a cop out.  It’s simply not more entertaining than the current folk style product.    

Over 180 competing countries disagree with you.  Maybe you can start a revolution and convince Russia, Iran, India, Turkey, etc that theyre wrong

Edited April 29, 2023 by PortaJohn

[Jason Bryant]

Notice no one is posting any pictures of where the fans were actually sitting.

Also, STYLE is not a factor in attendance. Teams are - and also, note that TWO schools and two tournaments draw more than the Open did.

Teams matter more than the individuals. CKLV had teams and also didn’t draw worth a crap. No Iowa and Midlands doesn’t draw. Scuffle does OK, but not in a 10K arena either. We show up for ONE event. It’s not the style - it’s US.

[Perry]

Watching the feed live my wife and I both commented on how many fans were in attendance. Those pictures are of the worst seats by the closed off section. Why post this?

[Scouts Honor]

Yes, those are bad angles. I remember hearing some guy on flo...before the matches started... on a hot mike

F*** this place is packed. the place looked full. now this was this finals .

I watched both days. the place was empty, till the semis and finals. now probably due to during the day. (marketing instance #1)

I am not sure what you guys mean when you say the venue does something... to attendance.

however, as JB noted above, if it is indeed US, then why aren't we appealing to US? (marketing instance #2)

we keep trying to change for something.. but why not market to the audience that is going to buy it? 

why do we keep trying to get people to like wrestling that dont? i mean.. if you want attendance... do what works? 

find a way to do teams. 

and now we are trying to make college like the thing people dont watch? (marketing instance #3)

 

and as far as the step out increasing action in free? it has done so much that had to add a caution and 1 half the time b/c of guys gaming the rule

[Husker_Du]

lol. what a terrible thesis. not to mention disingenuous. 

[Jason Bryant]

Yes, those are bad angles. I remember hearing some guy on flo...before the matches started... on a hot mike
F*** this place is packed. the place looked full. now this was this finals .
I watched both days. the place was empty, till the semis and finals. now probably due to during the day. (marketing instance #1)
I am not sure what you guys mean when you say the venue does something... to attendance.
however, as JB noted above, if it is indeed US, then why aren't we appealing to US? (marketing instance #2)
we keep trying to change for something.. but why not market to the audience that is going to buy it? 
why do we keep trying to get people to like wrestling that dont? i mean.. if you want attendance... do what works? 
find a way to do teams. 
and now we are trying to make college like the thing people dont watch? (marketing instance #3)
 
and as far as the step out increasing action in free? it has done so much that had to add a caution and 1 half the time b/c of guys gaming the rule

Definitely isn’t called as liberally at the Europeans. I think every mid-level ref is throwing it up. It’s been cleaner when you have the vets on the whistle. Chair and Judge still have to confirm the caution.

[Formally140]

3 hours ago, Caveira said:

The style of venue is a cop out.  It’s simply not more entertaining than the current folk style product.    

No

[Scouts Honor]

tell me what about the style of venue creates a  non attendance issue

 

[Scouts Honor]

3 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

lol. what a terrible thesis. not to mention disingenuous. 

give me some hard data about the 'increased action' from the pushout

or the shot clock.

increased scoring doesn' t mean action

disingenuous. really? why?

tell me that guys weren't diving to their knees or running out of bounds... to give up one instead of two?

tell me guys were finishing takedowns... instead of just pushing out

thats not wrestling and its not action

 

[billyhoyle]

The reason there aren't fans in the stands at international events is that most NCAA wrestling fans support their universities, not the athletes. The wrestling product itself is better. 

[Scouts Honor]

just more opinion

 

[Scouts Honor]

https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/10917639-d1-coaches-weigh-in-on-ncaa-wrestling-rule-change-proposals

some quotes from coaches 

you know, at least we have people in positions who are looking at the sport through the lens of trying to improve it and trying to increase action.

we’re kind of in digestion mode here and it’s all really new and just seeing whether this is going to help our sport. 

“I think all of these can be summed up with great intention, we’ll see if it lines out to good actions.” 

 was a little disappointed because I don’t know if the rules are going to achieve what they’re hoping.”

The rules are big enough changes that matches will look different. (They’re) going to have an impact. You see all the comments that it’s going to help grow the sport. I hope that is the case,

we tryin!!

“I’m not a huge fan of a lot of them, to be honest. I think the new rules obviously favor a better athlete for sure. You take mat wrestling out of the equation, you take a lot of the conditioning factor out of the equation, it’s not going to be advantage

 

 

Missouri coach Brian Smith

“Are we focused on the ground level, or should we be focused on a 30,000-foot view? The bigger picture is why the decline in viewership and attendance and fans not liking the action or whatever the problem on the mat is? When you go out to 30,000 feet, what have other sports done? The last 3-5 years football, baseball, all these sports have found ways to shorten their events and they’re trying to get closer to a two-hour window.

We’re even seeing the purpose of these tournaments don’t matter now, where it’s getting a minimal amount of matches to compete in the tournaments that come at the end. Could this be the issue of why we’re losing fans?

he addresses the lack of importance of duals. i agree. but im not solely focused on a dual meet championship. but you would have fewer ducks IF the duals meant something beyond just winning... seeding maybe

then says this... and i agree 

"Are we trying to change the rules within the sport when we need to change how our season and championship is run? That doesn’t mean taking away the crown jewel, the individual tournament. That can still be had

pop agrees

“The rules are big enough changes that matches will look different. (They’re) going to have an impact. You see all the comments that it’s going to help grow the sport. I hope that is the case, but ultimately, dual meets are what’s going to grow the sport. That’s another topic.” 

 

but even these coaches... why cater to the fan who isn't a fan

I don’t mind the three-point takedown in the sense that it incentives more risk-taking and hopefully it makes it advantageous and better for the fan who’s not a wrestling fan and comes in off the street and maybe more entertaining for them.”

 

none of them addresses a step out.. but can you at least see what I mean?

lets not throw it against the wall and see if it sticks... lets get some data... lets make that data available.

back up your claims.

Edited April 29, 2023 by Scouts Honor

[DJT]

Mike Grey addressed the step out (called it out of bounds rule). He said it would appear as a move towards freestyle, and we can’t have that because it would make too many people bitch on the message boards.

I’m pretty sure all of you anti-freestyle posters are just Russian trolls trying to keep the American team in check… don’t you have an election to steal or something?  …just imagine if US wrestlers competed in freestyle their whole lives, instead of (mostly) folkstyle until they’re 23.

[Scouts Honor]

the 80's called , they want their foreign policy back

or something like that

another great argument you just made 

the sad thing... even if we did wrestle FS our whole lives... we still wouldn't understand the interpretations we get... many coaches who have coached for decades still shake their heads... and not just from US refs

see kolat, mc, and a host of others

but yeah.. you maybe have some kids to invite to a drag show? 

[Scouts Honor]

the three point takedown intrigues me, but it worries me, in that it could shut down action ... if it begins to favor defensive/counter guys

i like the new swipes... rewards people turning

although i know many people whined when the 4 point turn was introduced b/c of the 'cheap' titls.... isn't that the same argument.. you dont want to get laced... keep ankles apart... dont want to get cheap tilted... keep good position and get out

not sure about riding time only if you get a turn... i hope it will increase turn attempts... but it may increase stalling on the bottom... b/c i know he wont get a point if I can just maintain my base...

again.. it would be nice to see some data on this... or a trial run somehow

i have just always been keen to the phrase be careful what you wish for

again, scoring isn't going to increase attendance. action is. drama is.  (im not sure a stepout in FS has increased this)

how do the attendance numbers at US open compare to years before

the tactics of a match aren't going to increase attendance.

[scourge165]

On 4/29/2023 at 11:01 AM, Caveira said:

The style of venue is a cop out.  It’s simply not more entertaining than the current folk style product.    

[scourge165]

4 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

the 80's called , they want their foreign policy back

or something like that

another great argument you just made 

the sad thing... even if we did wrestle FS our whole lives... we still wouldn't understand the interpretations we get... many coaches who have coached for decades still shake their heads... and not just from US refs

see kolat, mc, and a host of others

but yeah.. you maybe have some kids to invite to a drag show? 

Dude...focus. You were doing fine until you just veered right off the road...

 

Here, I just made your post about Wrestling and better. You're welcome.

[D3 for LU]

3 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Dude...focus. You were doing fine until you just veered right off the road...

 

Here, I just made your post about Wrestling and better. You're welcome.

D3

[D3 for LU]

This one has more of the "Thrill-of-it-All" aspect of veering off the road!

 Woopsie Daisey!

D3

Edited April 30, 2023 by D3 for LU

[Husker_Du]

On 4/29/2023 at 1:25 PM, Scouts Honor said:

give me some hard data about the 'increased action' from the pushout

or the shot clock.

increased scoring doesn' t mean action

disingenuous. really? why?

tell me that guys weren't diving to their knees or running out of bounds... to give up one instead of two?

tell me guys were finishing takedowns... instead of just pushing out

thats not wrestling and its not action

 

That wasn't the OP's argument. but yours is totally off base as well. 

why would 'action' be up?

no rules were changed. you're comparing freestyle in '22 to freestyle in '23 when it sounds like you want to compare FS to the possibly changed folk rules.

to be clear, i'm kinda on the fence about some of the folk rule proposals but i don't understand the questions you're asking

[Husker_Du]

disingenuous b/c he took the pics from the stream, with the cameras pointed where no one was.

attendance was significantly up. everyone here was talking about it.

you can say you like folkstyle more. you can say americans likfe folkstyle more.

but attendance was up.