Reminder: Penn State's "dynasty" pales in comparison to Iowa and Oklahoma State

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

There's an awful lot of bellyaching about how Penn State's recent "dominance" has ruined NCAA wrestling forever and how a NIL-salary cap needs to be imposed to ensure meaningful competition.  But let's step back and realize that Cael's "dynasty" is a puny blip in comparison to the great Iowa and Oklahoma State dynasties.  And was anyone complaining about those dynasties ruining the sport back then?  No draconian rules were put in place in response to Iowa and Ok State's true dynasties and somehow the sport survived and evolved.  There is nothing that needs to be done about Penn State's current run.  Like all things, in time, it will run its course and another team will ascend the mountain.

The Facts:

Dan Gable's Hawkeyes won 15 national titles in 21 seasons, including 9 in a row from 1978-86.  They also won Big Tens 21 years in a row!

Oklahoma State wrestling has won a total of 34 national championships, including back-to-back titles from 1948-1949, 1958-1959, 1961- 1962, and 1989-1990 as well as consecutive titles from 1928-1931, 1933-1935, 1937-1946, 1954-1956 and 2003-2006. Add in the single-year titles in 1964, 1966, 1968, 1971 and 1994, and you have the greatest wrestling program legacy of all time. 

 

• Oklahoma State head coach John Smith has coached more NCAA champions than any active coach in college wrestling. Under his tenure, 32 athletes have finished on top of the podium. He's also coached more All-Americans than any active coach in the NCAA with a total of 134 place-winners. 
• Ed Gallagher, the Cowboys coach from 1916-1940, led his team to 19 undefeated season in 23 years, recording only two losses in the last nine seasons of his tenure. 
• Oklahoma State is tied with Iowa for the longest unbeaten win streak. Both teams have won or tied 84 duals in a row.

Source: https://www.ncaa.com/news/wrestling/article/2020-07-29/oklahoma-state-wrestling-championships-history-statistics

Edited April 22, 2023 by Jimmy Cinnabon

[TylerDurden]

Just stop.

[Fadzaev2]

SMH

Edited April 22, 2023 by Fadzaev2

[Idaho]

I think maybe the comment about you not being the real Cinnabon from the old board has you trying extra hard now to convince everyone. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

2 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

There's an awful lot of bellyaching about how Penn State's recent "dominance" has ruined NCAA wrestling forever and how a NIL-salary cap needs to be imposed to ensure meaningful competition.  But let's step back and realize that Cael's "dynasty" is a puny blip in comparison to the great Iowa and Oklahoma State dynasties.  And was anyone complaining about those dynasties ruining the sport back then?  No draconian rules were put in place in response to Iowa and Ok State's true dynasties and somehow the sport survived and evolved.  There is nothing that needs to be done about Penn State's current run.  Like all things, in time, it will run its course and another team will ascend the mountain.

The Facts:

Dan Gable's Hawkeyes won 15 national titles in 21 seasons, including 9 in a row from 1978-86.  They also won Big Tens 21 years in a row!

Oklahoma State wrestling has won a total of 34 national championships, including back-to-back titles from 1948-1949, 1958-1959, 1961- 1962, and 1989-1990 as well as consecutive titles from 1928-1931, 1933-1935, 1937-1946, 1954-1956 and 2003-2006. Add in the single-year titles in 1964, 1966, 1968, 1971 and 1994, and you have the greatest wrestling program legacy of all time. 

 

• Oklahoma State head coach John Smith has coached more NCAA champions than any active coach in college wrestling. Under his tenure, 32 athletes have finished on top of the podium. He's also coached more All-Americans than any active coach in the NCAA with a total of 134 place-winners. 
• Ed Gallagher, the Cowboys coach from 1916-1940, led his team to 19 undefeated season in 23 years, recording only two losses in the last nine seasons of his tenure. 
• Oklahoma State is tied with Iowa for the longest unbeaten win streak. Both teams have won or tied 84 duals in a row.

Source: https://www.ncaa.com/news/wrestling/article/2020-07-29/oklahoma-state-wrestling-championships-history-statistics

You should update your stats. Smith has coached 34 national champs, thought the OSU website only has 33.

Meanwhile, Sanderson has 34 at PSU and 2 at ISU, so with 36 he has the most of any active coach.

[PortaJohn]

12 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

You should update your stats. Smith has coached 34 national champs, thought the OSU website only has 33.

Meanwhile, Sanderson has 34 at PSU and 2 at ISU, so with 36 he has the most of any active coach.

@Jimmy Cinnabonalso fails at understanding basic math.  He used Gables 15 championships out of 21 seasons.  Gable comes in at 71.428571428%.  Currently Cael has won 10 championships out of his 14 seasons.  Caels comes in at 71.428571428%

[MPhillips]

3 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

Gable comes in at 71.428571428%.

 

3 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

Caels comes in at 71.428571428%

So it's a push.

[PortaJohn]

1 minute ago, MPhillips said:

 

So it's a push.

Not according to Jimmy.  Cael's run is a blip

[MPhillips]

1 minute ago, PortaJohn said:

Not according to Jimmy.

Exact same percentages. Sneaky indeed...

[nhs67]

Ignoring era is also fuckwad shit.

The 1972 Dolphins get owned by most of last the NFL last year, maybe the entire league.  Speed, size, skill, training methods, etc.

NCAA D1 wrestling is the best it has ever been in all those regards as well as the deepest it has ever been.

Cael having that same percentage is much more impressive to anybody with a brain.

[ionel]

41 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Ignoring era is also fuckwad shit.

The 1972 Dolphins get owned by most of last the NFL last year, maybe the entire league.  Speed, size, skill, training methods, etc.

NCAA D1 wrestling is the best it has ever been in all those regards as well as the deepest it has ever been.

Cael having that same percentage is much more impressive to anybody with a brain.

Then why are guys these days still using those old outdated Myron Roderick fireman's carry and whizzers etc?  C'mon stick to new stuff like the nittny ankle ride.    

Edited April 23, 2023 by ionel

[ionel]

1 hour ago, PortaJohn said:

@Jimmy Cinnabonalso fails at understanding basic math.  He used Gables 15 championships out of 21 seasons.  Gable comes in at 71.428571428%.  Currently Cael has won 10 championships out of his 14 seasons.  Caels comes in at 71.428571428%

Hey JB said no decimals!  

[PortaJohn]

Just now, ionel said:

Hey JB said no decimals!  

Not even Dewey Decimals? 

[PortaJohn]

5 minutes ago, ionel said:

Then why are guys these days still using those old outdated Myron Roderick fireman's carry and whizzers etc?  C'mon stick to new stuff like the nittny ankle ride.    

SVN is doing exactly this.  He spent the entire regular season never once using the outdated sprawl

[ionel]

5 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

Not even Dewey Decimals? 

I dont want to speak for JB but ... NO!

[MPhillips]

Just now, ionel said:

I dont want to speak for JB but ... NO!

Did you just wake up or just get home from church and trying to make up for lack of post'? 

[ionel]

5 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

Did you just wake up or just get home from church and trying to make up for lack of post'? 

Yes

[Le duke]

SVN is doing exactly this.  He spent the entire regular season never once using the outdated sprawl

I feel like he’s one of the kids who grew up just beating the daylights out of people from his feet and never really had to develop a baseline defense.

Kind of crazy that he took 3rd at NCAAs giving up as many TDs as he did.

Although, the “Call an ambulance…but not for me!” meme comes to mind. People get worn out scoring 1-2 TDs on him and then their wheels fall off in the third period.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MPhillips]

1 minute ago, Le duke said:

I feel like he’s one of the kids who grew up just beating the daylights out if people from his feet and never really had to develop a baseline defense.

Agreed. I also feel like that's about all the top recruits around the country.

[nhs67]

39 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

Not even Dewey Decimals? 

Especially the dub Dz.

[nhs67]

44 minutes ago, ionel said:

Then why are guys these days still using those old outdated Myron Roderick fireman's carry and whizzers etc?  C'mon stick to new stuff like the nittny ankle ride.    

I will go BM Karen on a mofo.  I am so not scared to throw a BF and write me a letter.

[CHROMEBIRD]

I admit to bellyaching about PSU's lopsided dominance and would love to see more parity, but counterintuitively, dynasties are good for the sport, whether it's a team that wins every year or a wrestler who crushes everyone each season. When you have a team dynasty of or alpha individual(s), interest and viewership goes up. People want to see what the very best look like, and others want to see the very best get upset. Someone posted a link to a study about this on the old board. It's an ironic phenomenon.

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

I admit to bellyaching about PSU's lopsided dominance and would love to see more parity, but counterintuitively, dynasties are good for the sport, whether it's a team that wins every year or a wrestler who crushes everyone each season. When you have a team dynasty of or alpha individual(s), interest and viewership goes up. People want to see what the very best look like, and others want to see the very best get upset. Someone posted a link to a study about this on the old board. It's an ironic phenomenon.

I'd like to see that study(not questioning it)...but that does seem to be counterintuitive. I've argued that knowing going into the Tournament who is going to win hurts the sport. The years where ISU or OSU were a match away from an NCAA Title makes the Wrestling more interesting in my opinion and I assume for the general fan base. Especially when you're talking about watching the sessions other than the Finals. 

Without seeing the study, I could see it being applicable for a team like Alabama and a sport like CFB. Their dominance, but at least the hope that somebody knocks them off. Or WBB with UConn or Tenn. Now you have other teams in the mix and their viewership has gone waaay up(inflated this year due to Clark, but still up). 

 

Ultimately...I don't care. I'm going to watch and I'm actually intrigued to see if someone can pass Iowa in terms of team dominance and maybe put the best lineup ever out there.

[scourge165]

22 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

There's an awful lot of bellyaching about how Penn State's recent "dominance" has ruined NCAA wrestling forever and how a NIL-salary cap needs to be imposed to ensure meaningful competition.  But let's step back and realize that Cael's "dynasty" is a puny blip in comparison to the great Iowa and Oklahoma State dynasties.  And was anyone complaining about those dynasties ruining the sport back then?  No draconian rules were put in place in response to Iowa and Ok State's true dynasties and somehow the sport survived and evolved.  There is nothing that needs to be done about Penn State's current run.  Like all things, in time, it will run its course and another team will ascend the mountain.

The Facts:

Dan Gable's Hawkeyes won 15 national titles in 21 seasons, including 9 in a row from 1978-86.  They also won Big Tens 21 years in a row!

Oklahoma State wrestling has won a total of 34 national championships, including back-to-back titles from 1948-1949, 1958-1959, 1961- 1962, and 1989-1990 as well as consecutive titles from 1928-1931, 1933-1935, 1937-1946, 1954-1956 and 2003-2006. Add in the single-year titles in 1964, 1966, 1968, 1971 and 1994, and you have the greatest wrestling program legacy of all time. 

 

• Oklahoma State head coach John Smith has coached more NCAA champions than any active coach in college wrestling. Under his tenure, 32 athletes have finished on top of the podium. He's also coached more All-Americans than any active coach in the NCAA with a total of 134 place-winners. 
• Ed Gallagher, the Cowboys coach from 1916-1940, led his team to 19 undefeated season in 23 years, recording only two losses in the last nine seasons of his tenure. 
• Oklahoma State is tied with Iowa for the longest unbeaten win streak. Both teams have won or tied 84 duals in a row.

Source: https://www.ncaa.com/news/wrestling/article/2020-07-29/oklahoma-state-wrestling-championships-history-statistics

Ok, goes without saying, but it's agreed, this is all nonsense, right?

1-Has anyone said this has "ruined College Wrestling forever?"

2-Does Jimmy really believe Cael's run is a "puny blip?" Because...well that's just objectively stupid.

3-With regard to Okie State and their 1928-1962 titles, can anyone name the team with the most National Championships in College? Harvard is #1, Princeton is #3, Minnesota is #6(of course some of those the teams just crowned themselves, but still...my point remains).

Okie State should be viewed...IMO, more on part with a program like USC(or ND). They had success when the sport was VASTLY different than it is now and they've  been able to maintain that success, but do people really view their dominance on par with Alabama? 

 

Anyway, again, nobody has said the sport is ruined. I've seen people bemoaning the idea that smaller schools find and develop an AA and then he leaves like Truax or Woods or others. But that's not exclusive to PSU.

 

And again, a "puny blip?" I wonder if we should just give Jimmy more attention and this nonsense will go away. Like...start a Jimmy appreciation thread/Penn State actually sucks thread and maybe that'll satisfy him?

[D3 for LU]

Personally, I don't like the way the nits are currently dominating wrestling anyway.

(You may ask if I have an axe to grind here... well, yes!  )

Plus... once again, I'm posting on that soft cinnamon-ney pastry's post AGAIN (galdammit... how in the #%%#@#$^&* am I gonna cut down my sweets consumption?!?)

D3