This is just getting ridiculous

[Eagle26]

Seriously… how can anyone compete with Penn State right now?! I don’t blame the top kids for wanting to go there, but it’s no fun for everybody else. Sucks knowing in April who is going to win the NCAA championships in March. What kind of odds would you need to take the field over Penn State right now? 

[ionel]

3 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

Seriously… how can anyone compete with Penn State right now?! I don’t blame the top kids for wanting to go there, but it’s no fun for everybody else. Sucks knowing in April who is going to win the NCAA championships in March. What kind of odds would you need to take the field over Penn State right now? 

Worse than that, if you put the best 10 non PSU wrestlers on one tournament team could they even beat Penn State?  

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Iowa + Nagao + 3 Ferraris can beat Penn State

[ionel]

4 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Iowa + Nagao + 3 Ferraris can beat Penn State

Well ... there's only one Ferrari available so ...

[jchapman]

Where would a team PSU backups place in the MAC?

[BlacknGold]

7 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Iowa + Nagao + 3 Ferraris can beat Penn State

Iowa has holes to fill at 133, 149, 184, 197. Seibrecht at 149 could be interesting, Arnold has potential at 184 unless he redshirts for Assad, and AJ could be the 197 pounder by the end of next year, pending legal process. So 133 seems to be the biggest concern. They would need Nagao or Cannon to have a microscopic chance. I have low confidence in Teske, and Kale Peterson is a stud freshman but might need a year to physically develop  

 

[Le duke]

28 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Iowa + Nagao + 3 Ferraris can beat Penn State

Who do you envision Anthony Ferrari beating in a theoretical Penn State dual?

[Eagle26]

41 minutes ago, ionel said:

Worse than that, if you put the best 10 non PSU wrestlers on one tournament team could they even beat Penn State?  

Good point. I’m not sure… probably a 50/50 at best, which is sad

[buckshot]

The thing is that nobody was going to compete with PSU either way. Kids want to be champs and if they can get in they're not saying no. Even without transfers they'd have had six returning AAs that all fished in the top-3, who was going to compete with that? 

[LJB]

Excuse mentality whining about the best team…

[TylerDurden]

Penn State is just doing it better than anyone else right now. It's hard to argue with the results and progress you see. 

Kids are naturally going to be attracted to that, especially if they have freestyle aspirations. 

At this point, I'm somewhat surprised when HS guys with freestyle chops go anywhere else, even if their weight is occupied for a year or two. I thought Mendez would have been a perfect PSU guy. 

It's going to be tough to knock them off the top of the podium. 

 

 

[flyingcement]

2 hours ago, ionel said:

Worse than that, if you put the best 10 non PSU wrestlers on one tournament team could they even beat Penn State?  

125: Matt Ramos major dec Robbie Howard 4-0

133: Vito Arujau major Chris Cannon, 8-0

141: Woods dec Bartlett (Andrew Alirez is taking an ORS but would otherwise smoke Bartlett like a Philly blunt) 11-0

149: Caleb Henson dec Shayne Van Ness 14-0 *

157: Sammy Sasso dec Levi Haines 17-0

165: Mitchell Mesenbrink dec Keegan O'Toole 17-3

174: Starocci dec Lewis 17-6

184: Keckeisen dex Truax 20-6

197: Brooks dec Ferrari 20-9

285: Kerkvliet dec Wyatt Hendrickson 20-12

* 149 a toss-up could go either way.  If SVN wins, my final projection is 17-15.  

 

Maybe we should start treating national duals like the Dapper Dan to keep things even

Edited April 22, 2023 by flyingcement

[poorwrestler]

125: Matt Ramos major dec Robbie Howard 4-0
133: Vito Arujau major Chris Cannon, 8-0
141: Woods dec Bartlett (Andrew Alirez is taking an ORS but would otherwise smoke Bartlett like a Philly blunt) 11-0
149: Caleb Henson dec Shayne Van Ness 14-0 *
157: Sammy Sasso dec Levi Haines 17-0
165: Mitchell Mesenbrink dec Keegan O'Toole 17-3
174: Starocci dec Lewis 17-6
184: Keckeisen dex Truax 20-6
197: Brooks dec Ferrari 20-9
285: Kerkvliet dec Wyatt Hendrickson 20-12
* 149 a toss-up could go either way.  If SVN wins, my final projection is 17-15.  
 
Maybe we should start treating national duals like the Dapper Dan to keep things even

I think you have results wrong at 157 and 165 but otherwise agree. Could see Truax beating Keckeisen.


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[ionel]

28 minutes ago, flyingcement said:

125: Matt Ramos major dec Robbie Howard 4-0

133: Vito Arujau major Chris Cannon, 8-0

141: Woods dec Bartlett (Andrew Alirez is taking an ORS but would otherwise smoke Bartlett like a Philly blunt) 11-0

149: Caleb Henson dec Shayne Van Ness 14-0 *

157: Sammy Sasso dec Levi Haines 17-0

165: Mitchell Mesenbrink dec Keegan O'Toole 17-3

174: Starocci dec Lewis 17-6

184: Keckeisen dex Truax 20-6

197: Brooks dec Ferrari 20-9

285: Kerkvliet dec Wyatt Hendrickson 20-12

* 149 a toss-up could go either way.  If SVN wins, my final projection is 17-15.  

 

Maybe we should start treating national duals like the Dapper Dan to keep things even

Do you really think a Cael coached Truax is going to lose to Keckeison?  Look at who Truax gets to train with now.  I'll give you that the non PSU team has a chance in a dual but Cael's top guys always do better in the big dance, plus someone is going to knock off some nonPSU guys.   Also what is the Ferrari doing in the lineup, he is facing 1 to 15, even 1 won't be over by March. 

[pokemonster]

Pretty garbage for the fans but gotta give it to Penn State for being so dominant. The rich get richer. 

[Le duke]

125: Matt Ramos major dec Robbie Howard 4-0
133: Vito Arujau major Chris Cannon, 8-0
141: Woods dec Bartlett (Andrew Alirez is taking an ORS but would otherwise smoke Bartlett like a Philly blunt) 11-0
149: Caleb Henson dec Shayne Van Ness 14-0 *
157: Sammy Sasso dec Levi Haines 17-0
165: Mitchell Mesenbrink dec Keegan O'Toole 17-3
174: Starocci dec Lewis 17-6
184: Keckeisen dex Truax 20-6
197: Brooks dec Ferrari 20-9
285: Kerkvliet dec Wyatt Hendrickson 20-12
* 149 a toss-up could go either way.  If SVN wins, my final projection is 17-15.  
 
Maybe we should start treating national duals like the Dapper Dan to keep things even

Some interesting takes there.

Van Hess beat Henson pretty easily at NCAAs. Not sure why you’d pick him over SVN, as we’ve seen that match and SVN had the only two TDs of that match. Gap expands with more mat time for SVN.

Starts ~11:30 in.

Also, I’m taking Haines over Sasso all day, every day. Particularly with another year at PSU under his belt.

Messenbrink is going to be great, but beating KOT??? That’s crazy, until we see him dismantling top 5-8 guys.


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[Fudge Tunnel]

6 hours ago, flyingcement said:

 

165: Mitchell Mesenbrink dec Keegan O'Toole 17-3

 

[AgaveMaria]

11 hours ago, ionel said:

Worse than that, if you put the best 10 non PSU wrestlers on one tournament team could they even beat Penn State?  

Yep.

[Not134]

This looks like a collegiate version of the Dapper Dan (now Pittsburgh Wrestling Classic): Penn State All-Star Team v. United States All-Star Team.

[Holtfan]

Not to long ago Iowa won 11 of 12 and 9 of 10 and in a span of 25 years, Iowa won it 20 times.......and not many people complained about them getting all the talent back then.  

 

[BuckyBadger]

11 hours ago, LJB said:

Excuse mentality whining about the best team…

 

26 minutes ago, Holtfan said:

Not to long ago Iowa won 11 of 12 and 9 of 10 and in a span of 25 years, Iowa won it 20 times.......and not many people complained about them getting all the talent back then.  

 

Both undoubtedly true, but isn’t the difference today the NIL?

There is usually a dominant team that others gripe about. But what’s going on today is you have a guy at a smaller school that outperforms and suddenly becomes very valuable. There are a handful of schools that have wrestling donors willing to pay up for that kid. Why would that kid stay at a Cal Poly or Northwestern when they can not only go to Iowa or Penn St. but also get paid to do it?

If the majority of the time some small or lesser funded school has a freshman or sophomore become an All-American that transfers to the big programs that buy them up, not only are things less competitive but those programs that already have to fight for their existence are more likely to get cut.

Edited April 22, 2023 by BuckyBadger

[MadMardigain]

30 minutes ago, Holtfan said:

Not to long ago Iowa won 11 of 12 and 9 of 10 and in a span of 25 years, Iowa won it 20 times.......and not many people complained about them getting all the talent back then.  

 

People did, they just were not the Iowa people.  And likely Oklahoma St. before that. 

[Holtfan]

5 minutes ago, BuckyBadger said:

not only are things less competitive but those programs that already have to fight for their existence are more likely to get cut.

You are saying smaller programs will get cut because they can't win the NCAA?  A kid who transfers away from a smaller program rarely has a negative financial impact on the program he is leaving. Programs typically get cut for political reasons---take Eastern Michigan, for example. They were self-funded mostly from a former wrestler who set up an endowment---and the cut the program so they could also cut a couple women's programs (insert Title IX) and be able to build a new practice facility for their football team.   

I would agree with you that the NIL has an impact, but I suggest that has a greater impact on the larger revenue sports like Basketball and Football, than it does on wrestling, which generates little to nothing to a school's athletic budget. 

Just my view from the cheap seats......

 

[WrestlingRasta]

Serious question, when was the last season eight schools had a champ?

[ionel]

58 minutes ago, Holtfan said:

Not to long ago Iowa won 11 of 12 and 9 of 10 and in a span of 25 years, Iowa won it 20 times.......and not many people complained about them getting all the talent back then.  

 

Are you familiar with Joe Seay, why he was hired and why he was let go?