ACC, B1G, B12

[RYou]

Demise of the ACC ?

Yes, according to Greg Swaim of the Swaim Show......

 The Big Ten is expected to extend invites to North Carolina. Virginia, Georgia Tech, and Miami.

The Big 12 is expected to invite NC State, Virginia Tech, Louisville, and Pitt.

The SEC would get Florida State and Clemson.

Before Rutgers and Maryland joined the B1G, there was much chatter around NJ and MD about the possibility prior to the announcement.  Have our ACC brethren heard anything that stokes your curiosity?

All of the current B1G universities belong to the Association of American Universities (AAU) including incoming USC and UCLA.  UNC and UVA are members, GTech and Miami are not.  AAU membership is thought to be a prerequisite, for a B1G invitation.  I'd be more inclined to think Pitt (AAU member) would get the invitation. However, adding UNC, UVA, Gtech and Miami gives the B1G/ BTN complete coverage along the east coast, while Pitt adds nothing to the revenue equation.

(AAU universities conduct extensive research across all academic disciplines)

[nhs67]

I would expect some sort if invite to Oregon and Washington from the B1G as well.

[11986]

What happens to Duke, Wake Forest, Syracuse and BC?

[Chemo]

I thought Nebraska let their AAU membership lapse which led people to think it was no longer a requirement for membership in the B1G.


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[nhs67]

37 minutes ago, Chemo said:

I thought Nebraska let their AAU membership lapse which led people to think it was no longer a requirement for membership in the B1G.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In any case Nebraska was but no longer is a member of the AAU.

[Idaho]

Pac-12 is currently trying to negotiate a new deal with ESPN and Fox for media rights.  They are also discussing a separate deal with CW for games not picked up by ESPN and Fox. The hope is that the new deal will keep Oregon and Washington in the fold. The Pac-12 has shot themselves in the foot so many times they are in a wheelchair.  I foresee them becoming the "castaway" conference. 

[nhs67]

One of two things will happen.

Either the B1G will establish themselves as a National conference and extend their reach into the Southeast as well as the Northwest or the SEC will.

Unfortunately for every other conference it isn't going to really matter what they do.  The Power 5 is the Power 2 now and the other three are the Slightly More Power conferences.

Honestly the ACC might be a clear step ahead of the B12 and the P12 in that regard.

The MAC is basically safe.  I don't see any of them leaving for the C-USA.  They may not try adding anyone either.

The Sun Belt has quietly and quickly become the strongest non-Power 5 conference and it is actually perplexing to me.

[Cowboy08]

18 hours ago, nhs67 said:

One of two things will happen.

Either the B1G will establish themselves as a National conference and extend their reach into the Southeast as well as the Northwest or the SEC will.

Unfortunately for every other conference it isn't going to really matter what they do.  The Power 5 is the Power 2 now and the other three are the Slightly More Power conferences.

Honestly the ACC might be a clear step ahead of the B12 and the P12 in that regard.

The MAC is basically safe.  I don't see any of them leaving for the C-USA.  They may not try adding anyone either.

The Sun Belt has quietly and quickly become the strongest non-Power 5 conference and it is actually perplexing to me.

The ACC is nowhere close to where the Big 12 is in terms of sports.  Big 12 is clearly the #3 conference it is by far the best basketball conference and it's not even close and it is a better overall football conference.  The ACC literally only has Clemson the rest of ACC football is God awful.  ACC wrestling has really improved a ton and I would love to see NC State, Pitt and Va Tech in the Big 12 for wrestling reasons

[nhs67]

3 minutes ago, Cowboy08 said:

The ACC is nowhere close to where the Big 12 is in terms of sports.  Big 12 is clearly the #3 conference it is by far the best basketball conference and it's not even close and it is a better overall football conference.  The ACC literally only has Clemson the rest of ACC football is God awful.  ACC wrestling has really improved a ton and I would love to see NC State, Pitt and Va Tech in the Big 12 for wrestling reasons

What are you on about?

Expansion has very little to do with sports or how good their 'teams' are.

It is all about money and marketability.

The reason the ACC is a more stable conference is because of how their membership contracts are written.  The ACC has made it so ridiculously expensive and complicated to leave ever since Maryland got scooped up.

The B12 is losing their two most valuable assets very soon.  That doesn't scream stability does it?

[Scouts Honor]

really...  you think the acc will give up it's bball tourney? 

[Gus]

On 4/16/2023 at 6:57 AM, Cowboy08 said:

The ACC is nowhere close to where the Big 12 is in terms of sports.  Big 12 is clearly the #3 conference it is by far the best basketball conference and it's not even close and it is a better overall football conference.  The ACC literally only has Clemson the rest of ACC football is God awful.  ACC wrestling has really improved a ton and I would love to see NC State, Pitt and Va Tech in the Big 12 for wrestling reasons

ACC football is not as bad as you are making it out to be. Florida State, Pitt, UNC, Wake Forest, NC State, Miami, Louisville, Syracuse have all been ranked in the last couple years. 

[AOCStallsLikeAMug]

Dumb af, ACC is going nowhere. Nc state, UNC, and virginia would never leave the acc. The GOR will keep the others around for a while.

[ionel]

9 hours ago, AOCStallsLikeAMug said:

Dumb af, ACC is going nowhere. Nc state, UNC, and virginia would never leave the acc. The GOR will keep the others around for a while.

ACCwillStallLikeAMug

[Wrestej]

I would like to see collegiate wrestling do away with the conferences the way they are now and make their own geographically.  The way conferences are built now are by revenue from tv package or selling merchandise.  Let’s face it wrestling, except maybe psu or Iowa, isn’t making profits.  If they are I think their profits are minimal at best.  Have 10-15 universities in each geographical conference across the country.  Will cut down on travel expenses for teams making them more viable.  
 

Best scenario I think is for collegiate wrestling is to conference and govern themselves.  This way they are no longer handicapped by 9.9 scholarships.  Each institution can do whatever they like, which more than likely they do anyway.  There is a reason the best programs are the best, they have the most money and resources available for their programs.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

27 minutes ago, Wrestej said:

I would like to see collegiate wrestling do away with the conferences the way they are now and make their own geographically.  The way conferences are built now are by revenue from tv package or selling merchandise.  Let’s face it wrestling, except maybe psu or Iowa, isn’t making profits.  If they are I think their profits are minimal at best.  Have 10-15 universities in each geographical conference across the country.  Will cut down on travel expenses for teams making them more viable.  
 

Best scenario I think is for collegiate wrestling is to conference and govern themselves.  This way they are no longer handicapped by 9.9 scholarships.  Each institution can do whatever they like, which more than likely they do anyway.  There is a reason the best programs are the best, they have the most money and resources available for their programs.

 

I am for making wrestling more viable for more programs.

I don't see how the loss of tv revenue from current conferences will be offset from likely reduced revenue (from national broadcasters) of less compelling regional conference matches, even with the reduction in travel expenses.

Excluding conference and NCAA tournaments, there is a 14 competition date limit. Let's say 8 competition dates require travel where 2 are tournaments and 6 of 8 away duals are in conference travel where the trip is bundled to pair two geographically close foes over Fri thru Sun (which seems consistent with scheduling).  Then wrestling would only have seem to have 5 real travel trips.  Doesn't seem to me having shorter trips will yield much savings.

I am for more scholarships, but they'll cost schools more money.  Currently, many schools, including top tier, don't fully allocate the available 9.9 scholarships.  There first has to be a viable increased revenue stream.  Then available scholarships could be increased.  Then the increase in maximum scholarships may need to be paired with a mandatory minimum scholarship allocation.

I don't see local conferences solving this issue in a way that increases college wrestling opportunities at a reduced cost to participants.  I do see NIL combined with compelling competition as having potential.

Edited April 18, 2023 by 98lberEating2Lunches

[killdozer]

I agree conferences are antiquated for wrestling. I think four regionals and the top 8 from each regional qualifies for the NCAA Tournament.

A True 8th place match would also happen if needed. 

This is what the regionals would look like (the ranking numbers are what they placed at NCAA's this year).

Also, I am using all teams that are going to be NCAA DIV I in 2026 (as that would give us 80/81 teams.Making basically equal Regionals....So Morgan State, Queens, Bellermine, and Lindenwood are all included)

OK I know someone is going to say How is Minnesota in the West when it is Wayyyyyy North. Well it came down to Minnesota was the furthest west of any of them that I considered. It came down to Iowa, Northern Iowa and Minnesota. Iowa was West of UNI and Minni was West of Iowa. You could also move Minnesota to the North and Iowa to the West or If you really wanted to do it. you could move Minnesota to the North and SIU-E to the West since it right next to the line of demarcation (Mississippi River) and is way more south, So it might be less travel for them. 

 The tournaments should be held in Major cities (East = Philly or NYC, North = Chicago or Detriot), South = Charlotte or Nashville, West = KC or Denver)

The NCAA loves their play in games so the 9th placers wrestle the Wednesday to be the 33rd qualifier. That person would take on an 8th placer of the highest Region Seed that is not their own.

You would only seed the Regional Champions So let's take 165 this year the Regional Champs would have been (for sake of argument)

East = Julian Rodriguez, Cornell

South = Carson Kharchula, Ohio State

North = Dena Hamiti, Wisconsin

West = David Carr, Iowa State

The Seeds would have been: #1 Carr, #2 Hamiti, #3 Ramirez, #4 Kharcula

So West would be Vs. South all first Round

and East Vs. North (so that 33rd would be say Austin Yant from the North Region and he would match up against the 8th placer from the South for the pleasure of wrestling David Carr) If the 9th placer is from the West he would take on the 8th placer the south as he is the meeting up with the highest seeded wrestler that would not meet his regional)

Each Quarter Bracket would be 1 Vs. 8, 4 Vs. 5, 3 Vs. 6 and 8 vs, 2 

So entire bracket would look like this (Using the 165 seeding.

1W Vs. 8S, 5E vs 4N, 3S vs. 6W, 7N vs. 2E

1S vs. 8W, 5N vs, 4E, 3W vs. 6S, 7E vs, 2N

1E vs, 8N, 5W vs. 4S, 3N vs, 6E, 7S vs. 2W

1N vs, 8E, 5S vs. 4W, 3E vs 6N, 7W vs. 2S

So this is what the qualifier list would have looked like for this years 165 (the Placers are purely theoretical). 

So the 4 man wrestle-in would be Harkins, Mazzara, Yant and Cook, The list is pretty similar to what the actual national qualifiers were. 

 

 

[Wrestej]

2 hours ago, 98lberEating2Lunches said:

I am for making wrestling more viable for more programs.

I don't see how the loss of tv revenue from current conferences will be offset from likely reduced revenue (from national broadcasters) of less compelling regional conference matches, even with the reduction in travel expenses.

Excluding conference and NCAA tournaments, there is a 14 competition date limit. Let's say 8 competition dates require travel where 2 are tournaments and 6 of 8 away duals are in conference travel where the trip is bundled to pair two geographically close foes over Fri thru Sun (which seems consistent with scheduling).  Then wrestling would only have seem to have 5 real travel trips.  Doesn't seem to me having shorter trips will yield much savings.

I am for more scholarships, but they'll cost schools more money.  Currently, many schools, including top tier, don't fully allocate the available 9.9 scholarships.  There first has to be a viable increased revenue stream.  Then available scholarships could be increased.  Then the increase in maximum scholarships may need to be paired with a mandatory minimum scholarship allocation.

I don't see local conferences solving this issue in a way that increases college wrestling opportunities at a reduced cost to participants.  I do see NIL combined with compelling competition as having potential.

Wrestling is not making any revenue period.  They are a drain on revenue unless you have huge donors or lots of donors giving to the program.  Tv deals for schools are for football and basketball.  If a school wants a team it’s not because they make the school money with maybe a few exceptions.  You make my point for me about the scholarships, I probably just do a poor job of explaining.  Let each school do how many scholarships they want.  Whether it’s the school picking up the tab, financial assistance, or NIL money.  Will some schools get more talent than others, sure, but that is the case now.  I think with wrestling governing themselves instead of NCAA maybe they can escape the title IX requirements.  I don’t know how that would work but if it did work out then maybe more schools would add programs.  40-50 years ago their were way more wrestling programs than today and it’s not because the schools were making money from them.  By having geographical conferences this might create a buzz in the wrestling community and spread out the talent more.  Just trying to think outside the box.
 

 

[PencilNeck]

I like the regionals idea. makes things more fair. It would sort of come at the expense of a late-season conference tournament though, especially an important one like B1G.

 

Maybe hold big 10s earlier in the season?

[Lipdrag]

21 hours ago, killdozer said:

So this is what the qualifier list would have looked like for this years 165 (the Placers are purely theoretical). 

So the 4 man wrestle-in would be Harkins, Mazzara, Yant and Cook, The list is pretty similar to what the actual national qualifiers were. 

I like this regional idea quite a bit and then the formulaic match setups.  Conferences used to be regional but have evolved to now being something quite different.  As others mentioned this would require the conference tournaments to be pushed earlier a week or two.  I see the possible negative effect of the conference tournaments becoming a duck/dodge fest to keep seeds for the regional tourneys but this already happens with dual meets anyway.  I do (still) object to the absurdity of 33 per weight.  If there ever is a change to the NCAA tournament qualification format it is a perfect time to get rid of this vestigial rattail.

[gimpeltf]

57 minutes ago, PencilNeck said:

I like the regionals idea. makes things more fair. It would sort of come at the expense of a late-season conference tournament though, especially an important one like B1G.

 

Maybe hold big 10s earlier in the season?

And would cut back on dates able to be scheduled. 16-2=14.

[Formally140]

@Jason Bryant has worked up a really good conference alignment proposal. Can you post it again?

[Jason Bryant]

https://www.mattalkonline.com/podcast/mat-stats/mat-stats-10-jason-bryants-plan-to-renovate-division-i-wrestling-conferences-sow22/

Campbell has since moved to the CAA, which would tweak this a bit, but it still bears repeating that this probably should happen (or some semblance of it). I explain why regionals would be a potential death sentence for some programs if we remove the chance for the conferences to sponsor wrestling. Division I's model is messed up forcing square pegs (Olympic sports) into round holes (MBB/FB conference structures) 

 

[Kov88]

Why would you split up VT/Virginia and UNC/NCST? I’d think each would be a package deal like USC and UCLA were to the big ten

[nhs67]

2 minutes ago, Kov88 said:

Why would you split up VT/Virginia and UNC/NCST? I’d think each would be a package deal like USC and UCLA were to the big ten

USC and UCLA as marketable teams both add more value individually than both pairs you mentioned.

They are also well out of the current B1G footprint, so they brought a partner for them to dance with 

[CHROMEBIRD]

18 hours ago, Kov88 said:

Why would you split up VT/Virginia and UNC/NCST? I’d think each would be a package deal like USC and UCLA were to the big ten

UCLA and USC were not a package deal for the Big Ten. The initial plan was to poach USC and Oregon (because football), but Fox believed the total LA tv market is bigger than Oregon + the Pacific Northwest, so they convinced the Big Ten to invite UCLA with USC. The VA/NC split would be for similar reasons sadly, to maximize viewership and media revenues.