B1G Preseeds Out...

[nhs67]

https://bigten.org/news/2023/2/27/general-big-ten-wrestling-pre-seeds-announced.aspx

[nhs67]

Two quick notes:

Mendez over Byrd at 133, for obvious reasons.

Amine at the 2 for 165.

[nhs67]

125 lbs.

1. Spencer Lee (IOWA)
2. Liam Cronin (NEB)
3. Matt Ramos (PUR)
4. Eric Barnett (WIS)
5. Patrick McKee (MINN)
6. Michael DeAugustino (NU)
7. Malik Heinselman (OSU)
8. Braxton Brown (MD)
9. Dean Peterson (RU)
10. Jack Medley (MICH)
11. Gary Steen (PSU)
12. Tristan Lujan (MSU)
13. Jacob Moran (IND)
14. Maximo Renteria (ILL)

 
133 lbs.

1. Roman Bravo-Young (PSU)
2. Jesse Mendez (OSU)
3. Lucas Byrd (ILL)
4. Chris Cannon (NU)
5. Dylan Ragusin (MICH)
6. Aaron Nagao (MINN)
7. Joe Heilmann (RU)
8. Brody Teske (IOWA)
9. RayVon Foley (MSU)
10. Taylor LaMont (WIS)
11. Henry Porter (IND)
12. Kyle Burwick (NEB)
13. Dustin Norris (PUR)
14. Jackson Cockrell (MD)

 
141 lbs.

1. Real Woods (IOWA)
2. Beau Bartlett (PSU)
3. Brock Hardy (NEB)
4. Frankie Tal Shahar (NU)
5. Jakob Bergeland (MINN)
6. Danny Pucino (ILL)
7. Joseph Olivieri (RU)
8. Parker Filius (PUR)
9. Dylan D’Emilio (OSU)
10. Cole Mattin (MICH)
11. Joseph Zargo (WIS)
12. Jordan Hamdan (MSU)
13. Cayden Rooks (IND)
14. Kal Miller (MD)

 
149 lbs.

1. Sammy Sasso (OSU)
2. Austin Gomez (WIS)
3. Yahya Thomas (NU)
4. Max Murin (IOWA)
5. Shayne Van Ness (PSU)
6. Michael Blockhus (MINN)
7. Graham Rooks (IND)
8. Ethen Miller (MD)
9. Chance Lamer (MICH)
10. Tony White (RU)
11. Dayne Morton (NEB)
12. Jake Harrier (ILL)
13. Peyton Omania (MSU)
14. Jaden Reynolds (PUR)

 
157 lbs.

1. Peyton Robb (NEB)
2. Levi Haines (PSU)
3. Kendall Coleman (PUR)
4. Chase Saldate (MSU)
5. Cobe Siebrecht (IOWA)
6. Will Lewan (MICH)
7. Michael Carr (ILL)
8. Trevor Chumbley (NU)
9. Garrett Model (WIS)
10. Derek Gilcher (IND)
11. Brayton Lee (MINN)
12. Paddy Gallagher (OSU)
13. Andrew Clark (RU)
14. Michael North (MD)

 
165 lbs.

1. Dean Hamiti (WIS)
2. Cameron Amine (MICH)
3. Patrick Kennedy (IOWA)
4. Alex Facundo (PSU)
5. Carson Kharchla (OSU)
6. Caleb Fish (MSU)
7. Maxx Mayfield (NU)
8. Danny Braunagel (ILL)
9. Andrew Sparks
10. Bubba Wilson (NEB)
11. Nick South (IND)
12. Robert Kanniard (RU)
13. Stony Buell (PUR)
14. John Martin Best (MD)

 
174 lbs.

1. Carter Starocci (PSU)
2. Mikey Labriola (NEB)
3. Ethan Smith (OSU)
4. Bailee O’Reilly (MINN)
5. Edmond Ruth (ILL)
6. DJ Washington (IND)
7. Nelson Brands (IOWA)
8. Troy Fisher (NU)
9. Max Maylor (MICH)
10. Jackson Turley (RU)
11. Ceasar Garza (MSU)
12. Dominic Solis (MD)
13. Josh Otto (WIS)
14. Cooper Noehre (PUR)

 
184 lbs.

1. Aaron Brooks (PSU)
2. Kaleb Romero (OSU)
3. Isaiah Salazar (MINN)
4. Matt Finesilver (MICH)
5. Abe Assad (IOWA)
6. Layne Malczewski (MSU)
7. Lenny Pinto (NEB)
8. Brian Soldano (RU)
9. Dylan Connell (ILL)
10. Tyler Dow (WIS)
11. Evan Bates (NU)
12. Ben Vanadia (PUR)
13. Clayton Fielden (IND)
14. Kevin Makosy (MD)

 
197 lbs.

1. Max Dean (PSU)
2. Silas Allred (NEB)
3. Zac Braunagel (ILL)
4. Cameron Caffey (MSU)
5. Jacob Warner (IOWA)
6. Jaxon Smith (MD)
7. Gavin Hoffman (OSU)
8. Braxton Amos (WIS)
9. Michial Foy (MINN)
10. Nick Willham (IND)
11. Billy Janzer (RU)
12. Andrew Davison (NU)
13. Brendin Yatooma (MICH)
14. Hayden Filipovich (PUR)

 
285 lbs.

1. Mason Parris (MICH)
2. Greg Kerkvliet (PSU)
3. Tony Cassioppi (IOWA)
4. Lucas Davison (NU)
5. Trent Hillger (WIS)
6. Boone McDermott (RU)
7. Tate Orndoff (OSU)
8. Jacob Bullock (IND)
9. Jaron Smith (MD)
10. Hayden Copass (PUR)
11. Garrett Joles (MINN)
12. Ryan Vasbinder (MSU)
13. Matt Wroblewski (ILL)
14. Austin Emerson (NEB)

[lightweight]

Both Bartlett and Haines snare 2-seeds for PSU.  

 

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

[VakAttack]

Iowa perspective presuming the seeds hold:

Murin is hurt by Sasso getting seeded over Gomez, given Gomez' injury status.  Unless Gomez is fine, then it doesn't matter much, but Murin is more likely (see: not likely) to beat Sasso than Gomez

Reverse that for Kennedy, who gets put into the semi bracket w/ a potentially injured Amine.  If Amine is still hurt and/or forfeiting out after the quarters, Patrick Kennedy has a great shot to be a finalist.

Siebrecht in a tough spot with an ascending Paddy Gallagher as opposed to...whatever is happening to Brayton Lee.  It's odd to see Siebrecht at the 5, I thought his best case was the 6 given the loss to Mikey Carr.

Warner with a gift of a 5 seed.  Caffey is a tough wrestler for a quarterfinal, but with Warner's season, can't really ask for much more than that, and it's a good stylistic matchup for Warner, historically.

Everything else about where you would anticipate.

[Gus]

@jajensen09 austin emerson listed at HWT for the Huskers.

[Lipdrag]

35 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Two quick notes:

Mendez over Byrd at 133, for obvious reasons.

Amine at the 2 for 165.

2 or 3 seed is a non-issue for almost anyone.  The person who cares most is the 6 seed.  Is Byrd a bigger hurdle for Nagao or is Mendez?  Otherwise, 2 or 3 seed is a nothing burger.  Now 3 seed instead of 4 seed is a really big deal.

 

Amine is a bit of a surprise to me.  Record and head-to-head matter but it also matters HOW one wins when seedings are close.  All of Amine's matches are nail biters and he shows no offense until the last minute of regulation.  That lack of manly aggression should be penalized when another wrestler who opens himself up to risk has a similar or nearly similar record.  For seeding purposes I think we need do something analogous to how the NHL treats OT.  An OT win is less of a win than a regulation time win.  A freak pin in OT is not at all comparable to a first period beat down.  The first takedown at the 8 minute mark is much less of a win than a 12 - 5 takedown/tilt/ride/release domination win.  Amine has not earned the 2 seed.  He should be 4.  Maybe the age old question applies here:  Is seeding a reward for demonstrated performance or is seeding a forecast on who will win a soon to happen head to head match?  I have Amine as the 4 for performance.  I can see where some (most?) would have him favored over Kennedy and Facundo in the next upcoming match.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Lipdrag

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

Here's a little history lesson for the board: Before World War II, the committee put out these pre-seeds:

1. Germany

2. Japan

3. Great Britain

4. Russia

5. Italy

6. Austria

7. France

8. THE U.S. OF ******-******* A.

 

They actually seeded the French surrender monkeys ahead of Uncle Sam. But their chicanery failed! The United States won both brackets, in Europe and in the Pacific.

My friends, if you believe---if deep in your heart you really believe---in our country, in our flag, in our way of life, then you know that the ILLINI will triumph over all odds and against all comers just like the good old USofMFingA. 

As history repeats itself.

 

 

 

[ionel]

21 minutes ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

Here's a little history lesson for the board: Before World War II, the committee put out these pre-seeds:

1. Germany

2. Japan

3. Great Britain

4. Russia

5. Italy

6. Austria

7. France

8. THE U.S. OF ******-******* A.

 

They actually seeded the French surrender monkeys ahead of Uncle Sam. But their chicanery failed! The United States won both brackets, in Europe and in the Pacific.

My friends, if you believe---if deep in your heart you really believe---in our country, in our flag, in our way of life, then you know that the ILLINI will triumph over all odds and against all comers just like the good old USofMFingA. 

As history repeats itself.

 

 

 

I really like history now, it was not one if my favorite subjects in high school, clearly I was not paying attention when the WWII committee pre-seeds were discussed.  Thank you IWB for a very enlightening history lesson.  

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

These are fair and balanced pre-seeds.

[PortaJohn]

49 minutes ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

Here's a little history lesson for the board: Before World War II, the committee put out these pre-seeds:

1. Germany

2. Japan

3. Great Britain

4. Russia

5. Italy

6. Austria

7. France

8. THE U.S. OF ******-******* A.

 

They actually seeded the French surrender monkeys ahead of Uncle Sam. But their chicanery failed! The United States won both brackets, in Europe and in the Pacific.

My friends, if you believe---if deep in your heart you really believe---in our country, in our flag, in our way of life, then you know that the ILLINI will triumph over all odds and against all comers just like the good old USofMFingA. 

As history repeats itself.

 

The Austrian program folded prior to the start of the tournament thus forfeiting their #6 seed.  You'd have to add in either Finland or Australia

[ionel]

1 hour ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

Here's a little history lesson for the board: Before World War II, the committee put out these pre-seeds:

1. Germany

2. Japan

3. Great Britain

4. Russia

5. Italy

6. Austria

7. France

8. THE U.S. OF ******-******* A.

 

13 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

The Austrian program folded prior to the start of the tournament thus forfeiting their #6 seed.  You'd have to add in either Finland or Australia

Again I am no history expert but did all of these combatants have the required minimum number of contests to recieve pre-seeds?

[mspart]

France did and  I'm wondering how they got seeded. 

mspart

[VakAttack]

1 hour ago, VakAttack said:

Iowa perspective presuming the seeds hold:

Murin is hurt by Sasso getting seeded over Gomez, given Gomez' injury status.  Unless Gomez is fine, then it doesn't matter much, but Murin is more likely (see: not likely) to beat Sasso than Gomez

Reverse that for Kennedy, who gets put into the semi bracket w/ a potentially injured Amine.  If Amine is still hurt and/or forfeiting out after the quarters, Patrick Kennedy has a great shot to be a finalist.

Siebrecht in a tough spot with an ascending Paddy Gallagher as opposed to...whatever is happening to Brayton Lee.  It's odd to see Siebrecht at the 5, I thought his best case was the 6 given the loss to Mikey Carr.

Warner with a gift of a 5 seed.  Caffey is a tough wrestler for a quarterfinal, but with Warner's season, can't really ask for much more than that, and it's a good stylistic matchup for Warner, historically.

Everything else about where you would anticipate.

I should also have said that I think it's totally possible that Kennedy beats a healthy Amine anyway.  I give him a much better chance against Amine than against Hamiti.

[PortaJohn]

7 minutes ago, ionel said:

Again I am no history expert but did all of these combatants have the required minimum number of contests to recieve pre-seeds?

Yes.  For more historical context, you could say the US seeded at 7 or 8 was justified but they were viewed similar to the early 80's Miami Hurricanes football team or PSU wrestling 2010. 

[mspart]

Fix should come to the tourney as a wild card and face Roman mano a mano!!

mspart

[Gus]

42 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

I should also have said that I think it's totally possible that Kennedy beats a healthy Amine anyway.  I give him a much better chance against Amine than against Hamiti.

The Kennedy match against Hamiti was very tight last time. I think that the top 4 or 5 in big tens at this weight are just very close and it is a coin flip match every time.

[poorwrestler]

The Kennedy match against Hamiti was very tight last time. I think that the top 4 or 5 in big tens at this weight are just very close and it is a coin flip match every time.

I remember the score of that match being much closer than the wrestling appeared. I don’t think Kennedy scored any offensive points, did he?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[VakAttack]

3 minutes ago, poorwrestler said:

I remember the score of that match being much closer than the wrestling appeared. I don’t think Kennedy scored any offensive points, did he?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Kennedy did not, but he was legitimately close on one attempt (the others were mostly fake close given Hamiti's scrambling ability).  Stylistically, given Kennedy's dimensions and lack of lighting-quick finishes, it's always going to be tough, unless he can find a takedown that doesn't involve him having to navigate through the winding labyrinthine pathway of Hamiti's legs.

Edited February 27, 2023 by VakAttack

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

22 minutes ago, mspart said:

Fix should come to the tourney as a wild card and face Roman mano a mano!!

mspart

Yianni should come and face Gomez and Sasso as well. Unless he's Oranges.

[Mr. PeanutButter]

I made a copy of the interactive brackets posted by that nice gentleman, updated the seeds, and went full homer (while throwing some bones to OSUe as well) and came away with scores of:

IA: 139

PSU: 133.5

OSUe: 111.5

[VakAttack]

7 minutes ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

I made a copy of the interactive brackets posted by that nice gentleman, updated the seeds, and went full homer (while throwing some bones to OSUe as well) and came away with scores of:

IA: 139

PSU: 133.5

OSUe: 111.5

Full homer and Iowa still only wins by 5.5?  Man, PSU is just so far ahead, lol.

[Mr. PeanutButter]

37 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Full homer and Iowa still only wins by 5.5?  Man, PSU is just so far ahead, lol.

Full homer is relative. Other Iowa fans may be more or less generous.

 

[bnwtwg]

2 hours ago, ionel said:

Again I am no history expert but did all of these combatants have the required minimum number of contests to recieve pre-seeds?

Switzerland came in as the 33 seed with a record of 0-0 but everyone knew they were the absolute best when choosing neutral