if rby wins #3 is he the best 133 ever?

[Wrestlingfan2254]

Where does RBY rank with a third title? Also where does he rank all time as far as PSU wrestlers?

[Gus]

12 minutes ago, Wrestlingfan2254 said:

Where does RBY rank with a third title? Also where does he rank all time as far as PSU wrestlers?

No, that would be John Smith. 

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

I think he is behind (in no particular order):

DT

Ruth

Zain

Bo

Nolf

[flyingcement]

5 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

I think he is behind (in no particular order):

DT

Ruth

Zain

Bo

Nolf

Ruth was my favorite of those.  Man he was exciting

[Wrestlingfan2254]

Rby vs suriano would be a great folk style match. 

[ionel]

Ahh ... no!

[Wrestleknownothing]

130 maps to the modern 141. Below are how the weights map through time

These are the guys who won 3 of 3 or 3 of 4 titles at 133 and its predecessor weights. Not sure how you want to treat Logan Stieber who won 2 of his 4 at 133 or Barry Davis who won 2 of his 3 there:

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, ionel said:

Ahh ... no!

No losses...no ties. I really kinda hate this type of debate since the sport has changed so much, but...how do you argue against this? I'm not gonna knock RBY for getting the extra year like O'Toole or Starocci since he actually missed a year, but this seems obvious. It's also just a totally different era. 

 

I'd argue Brands has just as much of a case as being #1 and...hell, Gable wrestled 130 and 137, right? Stieber wrestled a couple at 133. Kolat went 2-3-1-1 and he lost a GREAT match as a Freshmen vs 3X Champ and another Wrestler that has a claim, TJ Jaworsky. I thought he could have had NF in that match, but...Jaworsky just had more in the tank.

You could argue FOR just about any of those wrestlers and I won't argue against them. I may argue FOR another, but these are all all time greats who have a viable claim...IMO.

 

As for PSU Wrestlers, again, so much context that you can't list them by X of titles. McCoy...Joseph was a 2X Champ and a runner up in his 3 shots. He's one of the guys who really got screwed due to Covid. 
These are impossible to answer though. I'm not putting DT below every 3X Champ. In fact...he's #1 for me. A bit of a fluke pin vs Bubba and then he wrestled a top maybe 3-4 all time great in Dake in an epic match his Sr year. 

 

How about this...if RBY wins, and that's hardly a given(y

[Scouts Honor]

my vote is kolat

[Scouts Honor]

if i were a troll i would say

for psu greatness kolat

for overall at 133 i would say utake 

[ionel]

5 hours ago, scourge165 said:

No losses...no ties. I really kinda hate this type of debate since the sport has changed so much, but...how do you argue against this? I'm not gonna knock RBY for getting the extra year like O'Toole or Starocci since he actually missed a year, but this seems obvious. It's also just a totally different 

I'd argue Brands has just as much of a case as being #1 and...hell, Gable wrestled 130 and 137, right? Stieber wrestled a couple at 133. Kolat went 2-3-1-1 and he lost a GREAT match as a Freshmen vs 3X Champ and another Wrestler that has a claim, TJ Jaworsky. I thought he could have had NF in that match, but...Jaworsky just had more in the tank.

 

Moreover, won an Olympic gold in college another 4 years later never lost folk or free during that time.  Smith won a World gold in college but did lose a couple matches each style.  Gable was only 2x but perhaps still trumps RBY as might a couple others.  I'd said RBY is fighting for 3rd at best.  

[Eagle26]

He’s only the 3rd best 133 right now…according to the coaches ranking lol

In all seriousness, it depends on your criteria. OP said 133 not 130 or 137. If he wins 3 titles at 133, it looks like he will be the first to ever do that, right? Not saying that necessarily makes him the “best” but he would have the hardware to back that claim.

[ionel]

9 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

He’s only the 3rd best 133 right now…according to the coaches ranking lol

In all seriousness, it depends on your criteria. OP said 133 not 130 or 137. If he wins 3 titles at 133, it looks like he will be the first to ever do that, right? Not saying that necessarily makes him the “best” but he would have the hardware to back that claim.

130 is 133, different weigh in rules back then.

[500 wrestler]

Assuming he wins out this year and beats Fix again for his third title, then over the past 3 years he's on a par with the best ever around his weight. But when you factor in the first 2 years where he was very good but beatable, he's not in the conversation for best ever.

[Wrestleknownothing]

I'm surprised no one is mentioning Eric Guerrero. 5, 1, 1, 1 at 126, 126, 126, 133.

[PortaJohn]

5 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

if i were a troll i would say

for psu greatness kolat

for overall at 133 i would say utake 

Not trolling at all. Fresh/Soph Kolat vs RBY Fresh/Soph are not close to being on the same level.  But unfortunately for PSU Lock Haven reaped the rewards for those last two Kolat years and unfortunately for this discussion Kolat was no longer at this weight. 

[HarryConnickJr]

I would love to see a sophomore stieber vs sophomore RBY at 133… I’d bet on stieber though 

[Eagle26]

130 is 133, different weigh in rules back then.

Probably closer to 141 lol. I get what your saying but my point was if the OP is limiting it to the 133 era, RBY has a case

[Scouts Honor]

im not taking a shot at anyone but i dont get the whole.. 130 is the new 141

130 pounders are about 133 pounders

115 pounders or 118 pounders from back in the day.. are 115 and 118 pounders

if we talk 133, i would say everyone from 130-135 qualifies no matter the era.

is it b/c of the 2 hour weigh in? 

 

[Le duke]

im not taking a shot at anyone but i dont get the whole.. 130 is the new 141
130 pounders are about 133 pounders
115 pounders or 118 pounders from back in the day.. are 115 and 118 pounders
if we talk 133, i would say everyone from 130-135 qualifies no matter the era.
is it b/c of the 2 hour weigh in? 
 

A 2hr weigh in vs night before is a massive difference. Like an entire weight class.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CHROMEBIRD]

2 hours ago, HarryConnickJr said:

I would love to see a sophomore stieber vs sophomore RBY at 133… I’d bet on stieber though 

I actually think a junior year Jordan Oliver would match up better with RBY stylistically. Remember also that a lot of people thought JO should have won with that end of match takedown of Stieber in the finals that year.

[ionel]

1 hour ago, Eagle26 said:

Probably closer to 141 lol. I get what your saying but my point was if the OP is limiting it to the 133 era, RBY has a case

126 is 133 but pre Gable (read his book, he was sucking a bunch of weight) i don't think guys were pulling as much weight, so 130 prob also equivalent to 133.  I remember conversations with Ron Clinton (~ same era as Uetake) about wrestling three different weights, they moved around more then and as recall Clinton bumped up at National tournament to a weight they didn't wrestle dual season.   Duel weights were completely different, ask @Interviewed_at_Weehawken. 

[PortaJohn]

38 minutes ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

I actually think a junior year Jordan Oliver would match up better with RBY stylistically. Remember also that a lot of people thought JO should have won with that end of match takedown of Stieber in the finals that year.

JO did win

[11986]

133 = 126 which was 2nd lowest weight most recently 1998. For fun I’d like the PSU only 126/133 Time Machine round robin between RBY, Sanshiro Abe, and Jim Martin. Non PSU how about RBY, Guerrero, Terry Brands, Barry Davis, and Dan Cuestas. 

[AKHUNTER]

13 hours ago, scourge165 said:

No losses...no ties. I really kinda hate this type of debate since the sport has changed so much, but...how do you argue against this? I'm not gonna knock RBY for getting the extra year like O'Toole or Starocci since he actually missed a year, but this seems obvious. It's also just a totally different era. 

 

I'd argue Brands has just as much of a case as being #1 and...hell, Gable wrestled 130 and 137, right? Stieber wrestled a couple at 133. Kolat went 2-3-1-1 and he lost a GREAT match as a Freshmen vs 3X Champ and another Wrestler that has a claim, TJ Jaworsky. I thought he could have had NF in that match, but...Jaworsky just had more in the tank.

You could argue FOR just about any of those wrestlers and I won't argue against them. I may argue FOR another, but these are all all time greats who have a viable claim...IMO.

 

As for PSU Wrestlers, again, so much context that you can't list them by X of titles. McCoy...Joseph was a 2X Champ and a runner up in his 3 shots. He's one of the guys who really got screwed due to Covid. 
These are impossible to answer though. I'm not putting DT below every 3X Champ. In fact...he's #1 for me. A bit of a fluke pin vs Bubba and then he wrestled a top maybe 3-4 all time great in Dake in an epic match his Sr year. 

 

How about this...if RBY wins, and that's hardly a given(y

I didn't think Bubba's pin of Taylor was a fluke. I said all tournament that Taylor was in poor position on his shots and someone was going to make him pay for that. Bubba did...... which kinda makes sense. He had practiced with him plenty I am sure.