I know that switching college to freestyle isn't getting much traction right now, but...

[VakAttack]

Is there any good reason why college weights don't directly match freestyle weights to ease the transition? 

[flyingcement]

Maybe the distribution of college aged wrestlers is different (more light weights and fewer 220 ish than that of senior world team wrestlers in such a way that makes it more competitive to do in its current way.  That's just a guess though.  Could also be "that's the way we've always done it".  Something tells me gimpeltf would know the answer 

Edited February 7, 2023 by flyingcement

[CHROMEBIRD]

Because there's also Greco and they have their own weight classes? Not that I would mind if the NCAA weights matched UWW Senior FS, but as it stands the NCAA weight classes are more equitably distributed along the light and middle weights (+8 lb difference between 125 - 165, +9 to 174, +10 to 184) which might be more fitting for growing college students in the 18-23ish year old age range. The UWW weights have larger gaps and are more tiered at the upper end but then again we are talking about fully grown ass men.

[ionel]

  On 2/7/2023 at 3:29 AM, VakAttack said:

Is there any good reason why college weights don't directly match freestyle weights to ease the transition? 

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kids are still growing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Wrestleknownothing]

  On 2/7/2023 at 3:29 AM, VakAttack said:

Is there any good reason why college weights don't directly match freestyle weights to ease the transition? 

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Good question. In 1932, 1936 and 1948 the NCAA did use Olympic weights to prepare for the Olympics. I cannot find any statement as to why they abandoned that practice in 1952 and beyond.

[PencilNeck]

  On 2/7/2023 at 3:29 AM, VakAttack said:

Is there any good reason why college weights don't directly match freestyle weights to ease the transition? 

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Because the metric system is inferior and should be avoided where possible.

[ionel]

  On 2/7/2023 at 5:09 AM, PencilNeck said:

Because the metric system is inferior and should be avoided where possible.

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add to that because there'd be one poster on these here boards going bonkers, firing off new threads and post left and right just so he could use the term keggers.  

[GreatWhiteNorth]

  On 2/7/2023 at 3:29 AM, VakAttack said:

Is there any good reason why college weights don't directly match freestyle weights to ease the transition? 

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Read through these last posts carefully, and no. There doesn't appear to be much of a good reason posted here so far.

All things considered, matching college weights with freestyle weights would seem to be a wise approach.

[SetonHallPirate]

There's also far more wrestlers at the middleweights (generally specifically in the 141-157 range) than on the ends...for example, the number of Division I wrestlers who have wrestled at least one match against other Division I competition at each weight up to this point in the 2022-23 season...

125: 223
133: 267
141: 300
149: 331
157: 338
165: 299
174: 280
184: 262
197: 234
285: 227

[dragit]

  On 2/7/2023 at 3:29 AM, VakAttack said:

Is there any good reason why college weights don't directly match freestyle weights to ease the transition? 

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But if they do this, everyone will downgrade the accomplishments of the poor guys who win NCAAs at 61/134, 70/154, 79/174, and 92/202.

[Offthemat]

It appears to me that it effectively removes the 149 weight and adds a couple of heavies. 

[Scouts Honor]

  On 2/7/2023 at 4:15 AM, Wrestleknownothing said:

Good question. In 1932, 1936 and 1948 the NCAA did use Olympic weights to prepare for the Olympics. I cannot find any statement as to why they abandoned that practice in 1952 and beyond.

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if i'm a senior in college, and my weight class changes from the year before... do i end up like Kolat or mcilravy did when the weights in freestyle changed... a little aced out and in between...

[Offthemat]

  On 2/9/2023 at 1:50 PM, Scouts Honor said:

if i'm a senior in college, and my weight class changes from the year before... do i end up like Kolat or mcilravy did when the weights in freestyle changed... a little aced out and in between...

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If you’re wrestling 149 or 184 - yes.  

[VakAttack]

  On 2/9/2023 at 12:17 PM, Offthemat said:

It appears to me that it effectively removes the 149 weight and adds a couple of heavies. 

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Sure.  I don't see the problem, since that happens at the next level anyway.  It doesn't matter, particularly, what the weights are in collegiate style, they've changed before. We want to be successful in the International styles, and matching the weight classes seems like an easy step with no downside.

[Offthemat]

I’ve seen plenty of guys too small to be effective at 125 and not so many over 190.  But I might be missing something. 

[VakAttack]

  On 2/9/2023 at 3:51 PM, Offthemat said:

I’ve seen plenty of guys too small to be effective at 125 and not so many over 190.  But I might be missing something. 

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That's literally the situation we're already in, under the current weight classes.

[PortaJohn]

  On 2/9/2023 at 6:50 AM, SetonHallPirate said:

There's also far more wrestlers at the middleweights (generally specifically in the 141-157 range) than on the ends...for example, the number of Division I wrestlers who have wrestled at least one match against other Division I competition at each weight up to this point in the 2022-23 season...

125: 223
133: 267
141: 300
149: 331
157: 338
165: 299
174: 280
184: 262
197: 234
285: 227

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This right here is why I believe what Dake accomplished in college exceeds Cael's career making him the actual folkstyle GOAT

Edited February 9, 2023 by PortaJohn

[Scouts Honor]

i dont really want to switch, but...

i was thinking about the every four year switch.

if we switch we switch

not the every 4 years for the olympics

[Scouts Honor]

 

i mean i agree dakes feat was incredible.. but he didn't wrestle all those guys. and just b/c more guys wrestled at taht weight, doesn't mean there are fewer wrestlers at the upper weights..

it means fewer wrestled matches... redshirts are going to wrestle... but are the older young kids still seeing competition or waiting until they are 'ready' to compete 

I dont really see how the freestyle weights address this problem, they add to the upper weights , a 210? or 211? which isn't apparently where the wrestlers are...

and take away a weight as someone pointed out.. 149, where there are lots of wrestlers

[Scouts Honor]

125: 223           57 (125) :223

133: 267         61 (134)  267

141: 300          65 (143):  300/465

half of these go down  
149: 331

                      70 (154):  165.5+169=334.5

half of these 157 go down
157: 338 half of 157 go up

                     
165: 299           74(163) 169+299 = 468

174: 280            79 (174)  280

184: 262       where do these guys go? 10 more pounds? down 6 up... probably up...

                          86(190)  117 +  262  = 379

197: 234 half of these go down half go up

                               92(203)  : 117

                                97(214) :  57
285: 227 1/4 of these go down       127(276): 170

 

for the first few years it looks like a problem. maybe things will even out... but i dont see us gaining wrestlers at 92 and 97 in college

i really dont see the benefit. more people for fewer opportunities in the middle if we switch and more opportuinities for fewer people at the top...

also, what do we do when they change again? how often do the international weights change? are they as consistent as ncaa and nfhs?

are they done 'scientifically'?  like, supposedly the hs weights are a distribution... 

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by Scouts Honor

[forkemaz]

We are already successful internationally, freestyle shouldn't be dictating what we do in a separate sport, and freestyle fans should piss off with all the rule change and weight class ideas. News flash no one watches freestyle or cares. We won a world championship last year and no one in America even know. Go fix your sport and leave this one alone. 

[lightweight]

  On 2/9/2023 at 6:50 AM, SetonHallPirate said:

There's also far more wrestlers at the middleweights (generally specifically in the 141-157 range) than on the ends...for example, the number of Division I wrestlers who have wrestled at least one match against other Division I competition at each weight up to this point in the 2022-23 season...

125: 223
133: 267
141: 300
149: 331
157: 338
165: 299
174: 280
184: 262
197: 234
285: 227

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Interesting symmetry between the far left-hand (low) side of the distribution and the far right.  Some posters need to keep this in mind before they complain about high school underclassmen wrestling varsity at 107 -- some of these young wrestlers grow into middle weights and some will be future college 125 pounders.  Eliminate the high school opportunity for small guys, or guys who are later developers, and you'll lose some future college wrestlers.

But, of course, I am biased.  signed, Lightweight

[ionel]

  On 2/9/2023 at 9:40 PM, lightweight said:

Interesting symmetry between ...

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Ahh ... pretty sure Wkn got copyright on that for these here boards ... you may hear from his lawyer soon.  

[MadMardigain]

[VakAttack]

  On 2/9/2023 at 9:08 PM, forkemaz said:

We are already successful internationally, freestyle shouldn't be dictating what we do in a separate sport, and freestyle fans should piss off with all the rule change and weight class ideas. News flash no one watches freestyle or cares. We won a world championship last year and no one in America even know. Go fix your sport and leave this one alone. 

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Yes, if we switched weight classes collegiatebfans would stop watching.