scourge165

This is effectively saying having Dake or Taylor on the list is nonsense. JB is an all-time great. You really think he was not only better than Taylor/Dake, but SO much so that it's ridiculous to put the other two on the team? Burroughs was great. I'm not sure I'd argue that he was that far superior to the rest of the field.

LOL...is that how he put it? That's kinda like the crazy girlfriend or boyfriend, "If I can't have you, nobody can!" I thought he just moved up so his brother could Wrestle 167(and of course stop Banach as that's always a nice feather in your hat).

Fair enough. I HATE how these threads invariably turn into why someone SHOULDN'T be on the list when we're talking about the all-time greats. Lee Kemp? Cool. He was an incredible Wrestler. If you make it how Pat Smith won weak weight classes and wouldn't be able to touch Lee Kemp...that's just insulting to these Wrestlers...the best of the best(obviously YOU'RE not doing that). People who think Askren belongs on there? I get that. I don't personally agree, but it's impossible to question what he did. It's more impressive to me HOW he did it. He knew he wasn't naturally gifted like Ed Ruth. He outworked people to get there, he was a Wrestling savant. He was creative. He was sticking people with cradles and with arm bars. So people started stalling. So he went to that(and I'm loathed to use these terms for moves) but the "assassin" because guys couldn't defend that as well. I still like your choice of Schultz, but different fan bases and people are going to have different lists. I don't get up on a soap box often...but if I ever were to, it'd be on this one, pointing out Ed Ruth's failings to advocate for another Wrestler. I have the same issue in other sports.

I like that list. It's GOTTA be the best against the competition you face, how you fared against your peers...otherwise you go back and look at...Banach for example and compare him to '97 pounders now and the technique just does not compare. But, 1/1/2/1 kinda says it all! I like Abas as 125. He was just incredible on his feet and I BELIEVE all of his losses were to Jurgens from Iowa(twice as a Freshmen in the NCAAs) and then to 3X Guerrero who he bumped up to Wrestle. It's impossible for me to have an educated opinion on Uetake as all I can do is read about his accomplishments(and they are incredible). IF this were my list, I might have Randy Lewis on the list. 2/1/1/7 and then a legit dislocated elbow his Sr year so he basically wrestled with one arm. If memory serves(from an old Coach) he dislocated it just a few weeks before the NCAAs. He was also missing a major pec muscle. You can see it in his freestyle Wrestling(where he battled John Smith). Though, again, pretty impossible to argue against a guy who won 3 titles in 3 tournaments and 2 Olympics, one his Soph year(his first year allowed to Wrestle). So won't argue with that. The only changes I'd make is put Gable in there at 141. He was dominant in College and there's a reason why people consider Larry Owings win as the biggest upset ever. Just one loss ever and then Snyder in there at 197. If we're trying to get the best ever into the lineup, I'd throw him in. He was a WC and an Olympic Champ while in College. Another thing I'd say...before they change the rules, dudes were just bigger. Now Schultz goes up a weight for this but looks like a massive '77(and again, that was him going up, he could have wrestled '67). He looks like a big '84. But Joe Williams wrestling 158, he'd be a '74 pounder now I think. At LEAST a '65. The stories about how much weight they cut are incredible(ly stupid). One reason the 2 hour weigh-ins...much as everyone participating hates them, very good for this sport. But watch this. Two all-time legends. The athleticism. They don't move like Aaron Brooks and they don't hit those shots and scramble, but it's like all sports. It evolves. Most started maybe wrestling a couple months in Middle School in HS for a year or two before going into HS, then HS(Schultz never won a Tournament before winning the California State Tournament as a Sr). Anyway, they certainly have the athleticism and are incredible to watch. Watch Schultz do that backflip after this match.

I mean, McGee is...and they do have similar color uniforms. There are other...minor differences in appearances, but I guess if you have no idea who Mckee is, you could make that mistake!

Well...lots easier to be a good sport when you get a pin in the finals...little tougher when you lose an award.

Well, they just made a movie about Jordan without actually making about Jordan. I suspect this one will focus more on the actual on mat achievements of Robles. It's gonna be a very difficult movie to make for Wrestling fans. 1-You're going to have to pick someone who's missing a leg. If you tried making the movie and used CGI to try and duplicate Robles, people are going to get all angry just like they do when...Bryan Cranston plays a quadriplegic because he's...not actually paralyzed(it's almost as if it's acting). So that could hurt the "young Robles" scenes unless there happens to be a young Latino Wrestler with one leg who excels at tilts, the Wrestling scenes will likely be underwhelming. 2-Getting anyone to try and make the wrestling look real is always difficult, but they really fail to get the culture of Wrestling right. Lets just hope there's not an overweight Wrestling coach wearing a singlet with a tee-shirt underneath it just randomly yelling at guys. Damon and Affleck have made some great movies...or really one in particular, but I'm generally a fan of their movies(save for Gigli...that was a crime against humanity).

I agree with this...to a point. If...for the sake of argument, he and David Carr each go undefeated next year, have similar records and Starocci acts like a douche, I'm gonna vote for Carr. Starocci didn't do anything to disqualify himself IMO. I'd prefer a guy get on the mat, run off the mat after kicking someone's ass without the contrived Metcalf like fake nonsense, but it's College Wrestling and emotions get involved. As long as it doesn't escalate past the "hold me back" bullshit, fine. But man, he'd do himself a LOT of favors by just shutting up.

I don't get why he wouldn't have been in the running, but to think it's funny that Parris won it? He needs to get out of his own way. Confidence is great. The way he's been talking shit is annoying.

Dieringer won in 2016

It's also a great way to make people really dislike Rutgers. Princeton in college athletics is at a major disadvantage. Why you'd revel in their struggles just because your team sucks is...weird. And then make a threat about it? Seems like you're just SUPER bitter about how your team didn't do shit this last year, didn't have a couple finalist and a NC.

HOW did it not resemble commotio cortis? He was hit by a 6'4 220LB WRer in the chest as he lunged forward. That is EXACTLY the scenario in which that occurs. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/damar-hamlin-updates-bills-gathering-medical-advice-on-safetys-future-playing-professional-football/ I have to ask...not being a cardiologist myself, and operating under the assumption that you MUST be one given your absolute certainty about what DIDN'T cause it(likely because you believe you know what DID...that'd be fair to say, right?)... This is pretty much the ONLY thing some people want to talk about and give their opinions on... However, I presume he's not a patient of yours correct? It seems like it'd be in bad taste to offer an opinion on his current health(that contradicts his own from months ago) or his future health in that case).

Well...when you make shit up...what are you supposed to do?

Yeah, it is(it IS better than the significant number of crazies who believe that this was long planned and that Hamlins family was in on it and that they're using a body double, a popular new conspiracy that's particularly stupid). https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/damar-hamlin-will-play-football-nfl-players-union-doctor-says-rcna69806 I'm also not sure why people think this is something that's never happened before, tragic as it was. But he's working out with plans to play again per his Doctor.

I doubt it. Stevenson seemed all in on a farewell in '22. In '23, his attention would have been split even more, he had surgery for some heart issue and my guess is that he'd have had a close-ish match with Parris in the finals. He wanted to come back and put on a show, but never seemed like he was fully committed(probably because he never committed at all). I think '22 Stevenson will go down as the most unbeatable Wrestler of the last 30-40 years for that one season. I mean, hard to pick against the guy who NEVER lost(with respect to Mr. Jenn) in his 4 varsity seasons. I feel like Kerkvliet could get to about 80% of '22 Stevenson, but he just didn't look interested this year. Hopefully he had some nagging, but not serious injury and he comes back and performs like I thought he would this year. I've heard from older Coaches/Wrestlers that Kemp, Schultz and...Lewis(sans the grotesque elbow injury given to him by Gibbons) belong on this list for one seasons worth of dominance.

Isn't the discussion at their BEST who wins? Who was the most unbeatable. Cael was elite all 4 years, but at his best, really nobody was challenging him. Stevenson though...he looked like he was toying with guys. Nobody was close to him. So what may have happened this year...and I believe Parris maybe keeps the match closer, but it's still an easy Gable win. My money is on Gable Stevenson 2022. I don't think that's recency bias, but I also didn't see the likes of Schultz and Kemp in their primes. Also, the original Gable seemed to dominate until one final match, but again, different era.

In a discussion such as this, it should never be about knocking someone else down. These guys are all so incredible, it's a subjective list(particularly before qualifying for this years team). So it doesn't sound like you're "down" on him to me, it sounds like you're just a bit higher on some guys you believe are a bit more proven. I agree with this order for non-Olympic weights, but if we're talking Olympic weights, I wonder if the edge doesn't slide closer to O'Toole(and Carr who are basically equal IMO). 74KG is going to change Starocci's body. He looks like a pretty damn big 174LBer. Sucking down to ~163? He's going to be emaciated. Seems like it'd serve both he and Brooks better to go '84/'97 next year, but obviously they've got different plans. I really can't see Starocci beating Dake dropping all the way down, but we are constantly surprised in this sport.

They also have 10 million people. The United States is more akin to the governing Europe as a whole, not one Country the size of a state here. You're dealing with vastly different cultures, different population density, different...ideologies. Not just one state that is half the size of the largest metro-area in the US, and FAR healthier with far better access to health care. Also;

It's hilarious how concerned people are with OTHER people now wearing a mask. My Aunt has been in and out of the Hospital...she's dying. Congestive heart failure and she's got a compromised immune system. Picked her up from the Hospital, took her into a Walgreens to pick up a couple items and there were a couple idiots snickering at her. Why do people care? And then this "I see people in cars wearing masks." I mean...first, how closely are you watching the people riding in or driving other cars? Second, this really just feels like a loooong tired talking point.

Yeah, they seem like they're doing just fine. They're not going to beat PSU anytime soon, but they've certainly got some studs coming. Seems a little strange and like someone has an agenda to just randomly going after Princeton Wrestling for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

Don't know what that means, but sounds good!

The ACLs are tough, but I can get it. The shoulder...you're so vulnerable in almost every position. Sure, the knee will buckle, but you never know with that shoulder. Worst injury I've ever had. This dude is a badass.

The replacement is the way to go. Got an achilles graft and it was great. Done Wrestling at the time, but about 5 months in, told the Doc I felt good and thought I could start lifting and was back to normal. Doctor told me I had to wait because it takes a while for the graft to full take, the blood to flow normally, but it was so much quicker just in terms of walking, jogging, feeling good. I've had it repaired and then two replaced(it was a no-brainer the 3rd time). As for the Meniscus, never had to deal with that, but my old man had one. Skipped all the rehab and 2 years later and it still flares up on him all the time. So my advice there would be...don't ask your son who never went to medical school what rehab he should do because he injured the same general part of the body and just listen to the physical therapists.

Ok, my answers... Cael seems to obvious. I don't recall how he was on bottom, but I don't remember anyone riding him. He was dominant on his feet. He could go takedowns and win a match 12-5 with 2 minutes of RT He could ride pretty much anyone. He was ballsy top wrestling...rolling across his back, crab ride. As we just saw, doesn't take much for one Wrestler to get caught. Other than that, Lincoln Mcllravy Won it as a true Freshmen, but at his best, he seemed to mix the best of Iowa and Penn State. He dominated by being relentless, but he was also so slick and good in scrambles. As scrambling has gotten better, it doesn't seem QUITE as impressive, but this with Bono was amazing. I remember my coach having us watch this; Scramble at ~11 minute mark. Kyle Dake didn't dominate the same as David Taylor, but if the point is absolute control in Folkstyle, he was as dominant in that regard as anyone else I've seen. And of course, Gable Stevenson.

I mean...c'mon! Who doesn't...