PortaJohn Posted July 11 Author Posted July 11 Just now, nhs67 said: I like it, either way. My apologies for being anal. So who do you have as your best single season duo? I Don't Agree With What I Posted
nhs67 Posted July 11 Posted July 11 1 minute ago, PortaJohn said: So who do you have as your best single season duo? I think Brooks/Starocci Year 3, and Nolf/Retherford Year 1/2, and Taylor/Ruth are all right up there. I will see what I can pull today on those. If it's wrestlestat's era it's easy. It becomes more difficult older than that. "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me
PortaJohn Posted July 11 Author Posted July 11 1 minute ago, nhs67 said: I think Brooks/Starocci Year 3, and Nolf/Retherford Year 1/2, and Taylor/Ruth are all right up there. I will see what I can pull today on those. If it's wrestlestat's era it's easy. It becomes more difficult older than that. Lot's of great duo's from the past. Got the 80's, 90's, 2000's covered for you... @Wrestleknownothing I mentioned the Cowboy duo from '05. McLlravy/Williams '97, Shultz brothers '82, Banach's '83, Scherr's '84 Nebraska's best duo?? Dresser/Hefferman '86 Krieger/Carter '87 Alger/Chiapparelli '87 Brands '90 & '92 McLlravy/Steiner '93 Mollica/Miller '93 ASU's best duo?? Randleman/Holman '93 Smith/Branch '94 Mariannetti/Benion '95 Williams/Weber '96 Moore/Guerrero '98 Ironside/McGinnes '98 Schwab/TJ '99 Lawrence/Becker '02 Varner/Zabriskie '10 1 I Don't Agree With What I Posted
NewYooper Posted July 11 Posted July 11 15 minutes ago, PortaJohn said: Lot's of great duo's from the past. Got the 80's, 90's, 2000's covered for you... @Wrestleknownothing I mentioned the Cowboy duo from '05. McLlravy/Williams '97, Shultz brothers '82, Banach's '83, Scherr's '84 Nebraska's best duo?? Dresser/Hefferman '86 Krieger/Carter '87 Alger/Chiapparelli '87 Brands '90 & '92 McLlravy/Steiner '93 Mollica/Miller '93 ASU's best duo?? Randleman/Holman '93 Smith/Branch '94 Mariannetti/Benion '95 Williams/Weber '96 Moore/Guerrero '98 Ironside/McGinnes '98 Schwab/TJ '99 Lawrence/Becker '02 Varner/Zabriskie '10 As a Cyclone, I appreciate seeing Varner and Zabriskie. Consistent winners, yes, Excitement, well yes and no. Varner wasn't called Varnish for no reason. Close matches, yes, but rarely in doubt as I have noted before. Zabriskie was as exciting as a heart attack as he usually won late in the third period with a takedown. Shout out to PortaJohn for Krieger and Carter. Nice call. 1
11986 Posted July 11 Posted July 11 37 minutes ago, PortaJohn said: Lot's of great duo's from the past. Got the 80's, 90's, 2000's covered for you... @Wrestleknownothing I mentioned the Cowboy duo from '05. McLlravy/Williams '97, Shultz brothers '82, Banach's '83, Scherr's '84 Nebraska's best duo?? Dresser/Hefferman '86 Krieger/Carter '87 Alger/Chiapparelli '87 Brands '90 & '92 McLlravy/Steiner '93 Mollica/Miller '93 ASU's best duo?? Randleman/Holman '93 Smith/Branch '94 Mariannetti/Benion '95 Williams/Weber '96 Moore/Guerrero '98 Ironside/McGinnes '98 Schwab/TJ '99 Lawrence/Becker '02 Varner/Zabriskie '10 add Douglas and Chaid for Oklahoma, 1985 1
alex1fly Posted July 11 Posted July 11 Teague Moore and Eric Guerrero were pretty awesome back to back. First two weights of the dual too
KCMO2 Posted July 11 Posted July 11 Kyle Todrank (141) and Jason Estevez (149) for Buffalo. Frickin meatgrinder. 1
Wrestleknownothing Posted July 11 Posted July 11 1 hour ago, PortaJohn said: Lot's of great duo's from the past. Got the 80's, 90's, 2000's covered for you... @Wrestleknownothing I mentioned the Cowboy duo from '05. McLlravy/Williams '97, Shultz brothers '82, Banach's '83, Scherr's '84 Nebraska's best duo?? Dresser/Hefferman '86 Krieger/Carter '87 Alger/Chiapparelli '87 Brands '90 & '92 McLlravy/Steiner '93 Mollica/Miller '93 ASU's best duo?? Randleman/Holman '93 Smith/Branch '94 Mariannetti/Benion '95 Williams/Weber '96 Moore/Guerrero '98 Ironside/McGinnes '98 Schwab/TJ '99 Lawrence/Becker '02 Varner/Zabriskie '10 Got busy with work. I won't let it happen again. Still can't post attachments, but can type out some stats (and maybe some ugly excel copy/paste) There have been 71 back-to-back (or greater) champions from the same school in tournament history. 16 schools have achieved the feat. School Streaks Oklahoma State - 18 Iowa - 12 Penn State - 11 Iowa State - 8 Oklahoma - 6 Michigan State - 3 Northern Iowa - 3 Nebraska - 2 Clarion - 1 Wisconsin - 1 Cal State-Bakersfield - 1 Arizona State - 1 Ohio State - 1 Illinois - 1 Minnesota - 1 Cornell - 1 2 1 Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge
Wrestleknownothing Posted July 11 Posted July 11 13 of the 71 streaks were 3 or more in a row. Oklahoma has the most (4,3,3,3,3) with 5 (Oklahoma State also once had 4 out of 5) Followed by PSU (5, 3, 3) at 3 And Northern Iowa (3,3) at 2 Iowa, Iowa State and Michigan State each had a single 3 match streak. Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge
Wrestleknownothing Posted July 11 Posted July 11 Aaron Brooks is the ultimate glue guy as the only wrestler to be involved in 4 career streaks. Twice with Carter Starocci. Once with Carter Starocci and Max Dean. Once with Greg Kerkvliet. Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge
Wrestleknownothing Posted July 11 Posted July 11 Jack VanBebber and Conrad Caldwell (Oklahoma Stat 1929 - 1931), Ross Flood and Rex Peery (Oklahoma Stat 1933 - 1935), Carter Starocci and Aaron Brooks (PSU 2021 - 2023) are the only pairs to do it three times. Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge
Wrestleknownothing Posted July 11 Posted July 11 23 other wrestlers have been involved in two streaks Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge
PortaJohn Posted July 11 Author Posted July 11 @BobDole any way to free up some space for WKN? 1 I Don't Agree With What I Posted
ionel Posted July 11 Posted July 11 1 hour ago, PortaJohn said: @BobDole any way to free up some space for WKN? Hey let's not forget us common folk who were in line ahead of Wkn. 1 .
CHROMEBIRD Posted July 11 Posted July 11 From a dual perspective, Zain-Nolf was a particularly brutal 1-2 combo because it was really a gauntlet of Zain - Nolf - Cenzo - Hall - Nickal. Just a solid brick wall in the lineup
TampaRyley Posted July 11 Posted July 11 2 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said: 23 other wrestlers have been involved in two streaks Streaks is a triggering word for some of us that went to high school in Brandon Florida. 2
ScottishSteel Posted July 11 Posted July 11 Kind of a tangent but just some commentary on the Zain/Nolf vs Starocci/Brooks stuff. If you take out Starocci's 5th year to make it even: Zain/Nolf scored 165.5 combined team points at NCAAs Starocci/Brooks scored 154.5 combined team points at NCAAs Zain/Nolf essentially spotted them 13 placement points and still beat them by 11; thats crazy. I'm not a Penn St fan but I very much appreciated watching Zain/Nolf demonstrate their craft. . . much less so on the latter duo . . . 2 1
nhs67 Posted July 11 Posted July 11 43 minutes ago, ionel said: Hey let's not forget us common folk who were in line ahead of Wkn. They just got to do what I do and re-use the same ones over... and over... and over... "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me
wrestle87 Posted July 11 Posted July 11 23 hours ago, PortaJohn said: A gem of a convo on Willie's Twitter/X account & perfect for the summer. @Wrestleknownothing fire up the data! David Taylor and Ed Ruth no question. Two dudes who walked on the mat at every match and could kill everybody on every roster, except their coaches and one another. People don’t give him enough credit, but I think sophomore and junior season ed ruth is second only to senior season Cael in terms of being levels above everyone he stepped on the mat with. Big brothered every human under the sun.
PortaJohn Posted July 11 Author Posted July 11 56 minutes ago, ionel said: Hey let's not forget us common folk who were in line ahead of Wkn. "All posters are equal, but some posters are more equal than others". Norman Georgewell I Don't Agree With What I Posted
PortaJohn Posted July 11 Author Posted July 11 14 minutes ago, wrestle87 said: David Taylor and Ed Ruth no question. Two dudes who walked on the mat at every match and could kill everybody on every roster, except their coaches and one another. People don’t give him enough credit, but I think sophomore and junior season ed ruth is second only to senior season Cael in terms of being levels above everyone he stepped on the mat with. Big brothered every human under the sun. Officially can only use Soph year Taylor/Ruth... I Don't Agree With What I Posted
Wrestleknownothing Posted July 11 Posted July 11 In addition to the three timers here are the two-timers (same two/three): In 1949-1950 Northern Iowa's Keith Young, Bill Nelson, and Bill Smith went back-to-back-to-back, back-to-back In 1990 and again in 1992 Iowa's Tom and Terry Brands went back-to-back In 2017 -2018 PSU's Zain Retherford, Jason Nolf, and Vincezo Joseph matched the UNI trio by going back-to-back-to-back, back-to-back In 2021-2022 PSU's Roman Bravo Young and Nick Lee went back-to-back, bac-to-back Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge
ScottishSteel Posted July 11 Posted July 11 50 minutes ago, wrestle87 said: David Taylor and Ed Ruth no question. Two dudes who walked on the mat at every match and could kill everybody on every roster, except their coaches and one another. People don’t give him enough credit, but I think sophomore and junior season ed ruth is second only to senior season Cael in terms of being levels above everyone he stepped on the mat with. Big brothered every human under the sun. Any Ed Ruth reference makes me just immediately go to him picking up the major against Hamlin in 2013; just silly 1
fishbane Posted July 11 Posted July 11 22 hours ago, PortaJohn said: Like clockwork and had to make the one idiotic comment Lee and DeSanto are definitely not the best ever duo, but pretty dang good. Iowa hasn't had NCAA champs in back to back weights since 1999. DeSanto and Lee might be Iowa's best since then. They finished 1st and 3rd in 2021. I've listed other possible Iowa 1-2s from the past 25 years below that had an average finish of at least 2nd at NCAAs. Lee being a 3x champ, 2x Hodge winner, >90% winning pct, and >80% bonus rate is probably just about the best better half of all the possible 1-2s. DeSanto is an above average 3rd placer. He had a >80% winning pct and >50% bonus rate. He also had multiple wins over multiple NCAA champs and finalists - Bravo-Young x2, Byrd x4, Gomez, Gross, Lizak x2, Lovett x2, Micic, Mueller, and Suriano. 2021: Lee (1st 125), DeSanto (3rd 133); Total (24.5+19.5=44 NCAA Team points) 2017: Gilman (3rd 125), Clark (1st 133); Total (19.5+20=39.5) 2016: Gilman (2nd 125), Clark (2nd 133); Total (21.5+16=37.5) 2010: McDonough (1st 125), Dennis (2nd 133); Total (23.5+16=39.5) 2010: Dennis (2nd 133), Marion (2nd 141); Total (16+16=32) 2010: Marion (2nd 141), Metcalf (1st 149); Total (16+23=39) 2008: Perry (1st 165), Borschell (3rd 174); Total (25+18.5=43.5) 2007: Perry (1st 165), Luedke (3rd 174); Total (22+13.5=35.5) 2005: Johnston (2nd 157), Perry (2nd 165); Total (17+18=35) 2001: Strittmatter (2nd 125), Juergens (1st 133); Total (20*+22=42) 2001: Juergens (1st 133), Schwab (2nd 141); Total (22+19=41) 2000: Strittmatter (3rd 125), Juergens (1st 133); Total (18+25=43) 2000: Juergens (1st 133), Schwab (3rd 141); Total (25+20.5=45.5) *I only counted advancement and bonus points starting in the round of 32 and all TFs were counted as 1.5. Strittmatter had a pig tail in 2001 which he won by fall. I did not count the points from that match, which would have added 3 to his total and the Strittmatter-Juergens total would have been 45, though at some point it became impossible for a wrestler seeded above 32 to have a pigtail, which everyone of these guys were. 1 1 1
Wrestleknownothing Posted July 11 Posted July 11 The lowest seeded pair to win bac-to-back are Oklahoma's Mike Sage (US) and Jerry Staley (6) in 1964 Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge
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