Bo Bachelor round 2

[BAC]

33 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

1) it is a grey area in the rule and Ok St compliance is willing to take the risk that is permitted and Iowa's compliance either doesn't think it's permissible or doesn't want to risk a violation on a 50/50 call.  

Yes, that's the possibility I was raising.  I don't think there's any chance a program as big and internally-regulated as OSU is going to be engaged in obviously illegal practices.  The question is, what's the workaround, and how defensible is it?  More to the point, why isn't Iowa doing it? 

If I were in the Brands' position, I'd be telling my AD, "Hey, my competition is doing this, either get approval for this from the GC or file a complaint against the other schools for recruiting violations, because this is not a level playing field." 

33 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

2) Is Jax situation different under the rules than Bo's?  Jax was going to Stillwater to train under the RTC for an event he will be competing in as opposed to Bo who may just want to go train.   Also, sounds like Melvin and Keegan also wanted to go and maybe as prospective athletes that could be different that OSU paying for Jax and (potentially) his family?   I don't know the rules but the nuances could be important to how each compliance department is looking at it.  

That's a really good question.  It would be a different question entirely if Iowa was paying for Bo's transport, but not Mel/Keegan's. I don't want to speculate too much since there's no credible reports about that being the issue.

But if it is, then I struggle to defend Iowa here. Yes, on one hand, there's a certain logic to extending the RTC logic to non-commits, since the whole argument is that it isn't about recruiting at all.  But on the other hand, doing so just exposes the lie underneath the whole RTC argument, showing that it's an exception that swallows the rule.  Once you allow Jax to fly to OK to "help Daton train," then you can build an entire recruiting system around "helping your RTC guys train" by flying in would-be recruits. 

Might as well make it first class and throw in some hookers and blow on the flight while you're at it, right?

Point being:  I can't see any good reason why OSU should be allowed to pay for Jax's flights, if that's what's happening.  Would be really curious to know how widespread that practice is, and what legal rationale they're using.  

Edited Monday at 10:30 PM by BAC

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

55 minutes ago, jackwebster said:

Fair enough, except he bailed out after the helicopter, far-ankle business. And not that it matters but both guys were missing some knee infrastructure.

I think Cardinale's knee was injured the next year.

[VakAttack]

33 minutes ago, jackwebster said:

At 1 min isn't a scramble?

You mean the end of the match?  No. He is straight defending a single in the splits, and he put his head next to his knee.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

7 minutes ago, BAC said:

Yes, that's the possibility I was raising.  I don't think there's any chance a program as big and internally-regulated as OSU is going to be engaged in obviously illegal practices.  The question is, what's the workaround, and how defensible is it?  More to the point, why isn't Iowa doing it? 

If I were in the Brands' position, I'd be telling my AD, "Hey, my competition is doing this, either get approval for this from the GC or file a complaint against the other schools for recruiting violations, because this is not a level playing field." 

That's a really good question.  It would be a different question entirely if Iowa was paying for Bo's transport, but not Mel/Keegan's. On one hand, there's a certain logic to extending the RTC logic to non-commits, since the whole argument is that it isn't about recruiting at all.  On the other hand, doing so just exposes the lie underneath the whole RTC argument, showing that it's an exception that swallows the rule.  Once you allow Jax to fly to OK to "help Daton train," then you can build an entire recruiting system around "helping your RTC guys train" by flying in would-be recruits.  Might as well make it first class and throw in some hookers and blow on the flight while you're at it.

Point being:  I can't see any good reason why OSU should be allowed to pay for Jax's flights, if that's what's happening.  Would be really curious to know how widespread that practice is, and what legal rationale they're using.  

It doesn't mean anyone is actually "cheating."  OSU's compliance dept might not think its a big deal, but if Iowa's does think its big, Brands can't do it.

Different departments can have vastly different interpretations.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

Does anyone have the post Corby made explaining the situation.  Hawk forum, prob.

[HokieDave87]

8 minutes ago, BAC said:

Yes, that's the possibility I was raising.  I don't think there's any chance a program as big and internally-regulated as OSU is going to be engaged in obviously illegal practices.  The question is, what's the workaround, and how defensible is it?  More to the point, why isn't Iowa doing it? 

If I were in the Brands' position, I'd be telling my AD, "Hey, my competition is doing this, either get approval for this from the GC or file a complaint against the other schools for recruiting violations, because this is not a level playing field." 

That's a really good question.  It would be a different question entirely if Iowa was paying for Bo's transport, but not Mel/Keegan's. I don't want to speculate too much since there's no credible reports about that being the issue.

But if it is, then I struggle to defend Iowa here. Yes, on one hand, there's a certain logic to extending the RTC logic to non-commits, since the whole argument is that it isn't about recruiting at all.  But on the other hand, doing so just exposes the lie underneath the whole RTC argument, showing that it's an exception that swallows the rule.  Once you allow Jax to fly to OK to "help Daton train," then you can build an entire recruiting system around "helping your RTC guys train" by flying in would-be recruits. 

Might as well make it first class and throw in some hookers and blow on the flight while you're at it, right?

Point being:  I can't see any good reason why OSU should be allowed to pay for Jax's flights, if that's what's happening.  Would be really curious to know how widespread that practice is, and what legal rationale they're using.  

I think it's very common for guys not within the 250 mile radius to train on their own dime at their future school. I don't know about the Jax Forrest situation where they're paying to bring him in. I guess he is on a world team so you could be bringing in a training partner but I think Iowa would be all over that if they could/wanted to be.

It also seems like a very extreme ask to bring in Keegan Bassett to help his RTC guys train. If I had to guess I'm going to guess Bill Bassett is at fault here and maybe Brands could've handled it better but overall had the right idea.

[Mr. PeanutButter]

22 minutes ago, Coastal said:

I thought this was the college forum...

Besides, he didn't lose a scramble, Duke hit a move that was scouted and practiced.

Since you so conveniently moved the goal posts I will heretofore contend that anytime Lee scores, it's a scramble. Anytime he gets scored on, his opponent "hit a move"

[MNRodent]

38 minutes ago, headshuck said:

Pretty elaborate strategy to expose OkState.

Yeah, the Forrest family is like thanks a lot Bassetts, now we gotta start paying for travel.

[jackwebster]

16 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

You mean the end of the match?  No. He is straight defending a single in the splits, and he put his head next to his knee.

No at the beginning, on the edge near tge Iowa bench .. After Lee had picc' s leg up in the air.

[BAC]

12 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

It doesn't mean anyone is actually "cheating."  OSU's compliance dept might not think its a big deal, but if Iowa's does think its big, Brands can't do it.

Different departments can have vastly different interpretations.

That's possible, but where it's an issue as consequential to recruiting as this, it's inconceivable that any competent coach would just drop it right there. 

[Coastal]

FACT - Bo Bassett idolized Spencer Lee.  FACT -Bo Bassett spent more time with Spencer Lee.  FACT -Bo Bassett decommited from Iowa.   

Iowa missed their chance to land Taylor and now there's just not a proven option for the next coach.   

 

[1032004]

28 minutes ago, HokieDave87 said:

I think it's very common for guys not within the 250 mile radius to train on their own dime at their future school. I don't know about the Jax Forrest situation where they're paying to bring him in. I guess he is on a world team so you could be bringing in a training partner but I think Iowa would be all over that if they could/wanted to be.

It also seems like a very extreme ask to bring in Keegan Bassett to help his RTC guys train. If I had to guess I'm going to guess Bill Bassett is at fault here and maybe Brands could've handled it better but overall had the right idea.

I saw someone on the PSU board say something about when Jax goes there they don’t train on the campus (similar to NLWC guys training at M2), not sure if that’s true if so then maybe it becomes  not an official RTC practice.

Edited Monday at 11:06 PM by 1032004

[1032004]

2 hours ago, VakAttack said:

Somewhat notably, this screenshot also appeared in a Minnow Tweet, that has now mysteriously disappeared into the Great Minnow Tweet Wastebin in the Sky.

I was curious how Minnow was going to be able to simultaneously handle bashing Iowa while sucking up to the Bassetts

[feet2back]

Pennsylvania folks Love NJ and the NJ Coastline...Bo has family already wrestling at RU...The next couple of Years, Rutgers will be loaded with Pennsylvania Wrestlers...Why Not?   Win Multiple Titles for The State University of New Jersey, and you will be an instant Legend in The Biggest Media Market in USA

[1032004]

31 minutes ago, HokieDave87 said:

 

It also seems like a very extreme ask to bring in Keegan Bassett to help his RTC guys train. 

In all seriousness, he might have been a good partner for some of their women’s wrestlers…

[CHROMEBIRD]

3 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

If this is true, Iowa needs to report OkSt immediately to the NCAA compliance department. 

Has it been confirmed that OSU picks up Jax's travel tab? I figured a kid whose family moves him from North Carolina to McCort and to tournaments and camps around the country has some money to send him to Stillwater

[CHROMEBIRD]

Anyway, my hot take is that Bassett decommitted because he doesn't want to have to shovel his own snow this winter

Edited Monday at 11:18 PM by CHROMEBIRD

[BruceyB]

47 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

An old sophomore who wrestles 99 lbs and took fourth in the state tournament is feeling mighty empowered.

a 99lber freshman placing 4th at PA States up at 106 isn't too bad, no? He's ranked #7 at 106 while being undersized. He likely wouldn't have even been able to compete in high school last year if he's still able to make 99. Man, the holdback whining is so worn out. 

[1032004]

12 minutes ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

Has it been confirmed that OSU picks up Jax's travel tab? I figured a kid whose family moves him from North Carolina to McCort and to tournaments and camps around the country has some money to send him to Stillwater

On the Iowa board there is talk (somewhat confirmed by @Husker_Du) that his travel was being paid for by a mid-40’s female “friend” that recently passed away.

Edited Monday at 11:23 PM by 1032004

[PortaJohn]

49 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Does anyone have the post Corby made explaining the situation.  Hawk forum, prob.

He just broke down what Wille said on his podcast.  

[BAC]

21 minutes ago, HokieDave87 said:

If I had to guess I'm going to guess Bill Bassett is at fault here and maybe Brands could've handled it better but overall had the right idea.

That's kind of where I am.  I'm generally a fan of the Bassetts, but Bill himself has a history of recruiting violations, leading to sanctions against McCort that were among the most extreme in state history, and him being removed as coach for a spell (while Jax's dad took over, LOL). From the reporting so far, it isn't hard for me to see him saying, hey Jax's flights are getting paid for, ours aren't, you gotta make this happen."  

As for Brands, he seems just hard-headed enough to take offense.  There's reports he yelled and said "don't tell me how to run your program," or whatever.  Not confirmed, but tracks with Brands' personality. It wouldn't shock me if the tenor of Brands' response was as much an impetus of the Bassetts backing out than the actual position he took, which may well have been defensible. 

You have to wonder if Brands couldn't have salvaged this by taking a less confrontational tone, tell him he'll insist they either explore all legal options or take it up with the NCAA.  He could've even said he'd have someone from the AD's or GC's office call him, so Brands doesn't have to pretend he understands the legal nuances of it all.  I'm guessing there was a clash of egos here, and Brands opted not to swallow his pride.

On the other hand, I have a hunch that that the Bassett parents don't really understand how permissible it is to have travel expenses paid.  I personally have a very hard time believing that there's a carve-out for it in NCAA recruiting, as it's an exception that would swallow the rule.  My own guess is that some third party donor is paying Jax's expenses on the down-low and that, if a complaint were filed, OSU will be like "zOMG, we know nothing of that, but in any case, we can't stop what our silly donors do."  My guess is Bill will learn the practice isn't as widespread as he thinks it is.  Ironically, this may limits Bo's choices to PSU, which they can drive to, or OSU, so long as they're willing to keep the "free travel" gravy train going.

Of course this is all rank speculation, but hey, that's why I'm here.

[CHROMEBIRD]

4 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

On the Iowa board there is talk (somewhat confirmed by @Husker_Du) that his travel was being paid for by a mid-40’s female “friend” that recently passed away.

What the

[CHROMEBIRD]

4 minutes ago, BAC said:

That's kind of where I am.  I'm generally a fan of the Bassetts, but Bill himself has a history of recruiting violations, leading to sanctions against McCort that were among the most extreme in state history, and him being removed as coach for a spell (while Jax's dad took over, LOL). From the reporting so far, it isn't hard for me to see him saying, hey Jax's flights are getting paid for, ours aren't, you gotta make this happen."  

As for Brands, he seems just hard-headed enough to take offense.  There's reports he yelled and said "don't tell me how to run your program," or whatever.  Not confirmed, but tracks with Brands' personality. It wouldn't shock me if the tenor of Brands' response was as much an impetus of the Bassetts backing out than the actual position he took, which may well have been defensible. 

You have to wonder if Brands couldn't have salvaged this by taking a less confrontational tone, tell him he'll insist they either explore all legal options or take it up with the NCAA.  He could've even said he'd have someone from the AD's or GC's office call him, so Brands doesn't have to pretend he understands the legal nuances of it all.  I'm guessing there was a clash of egos here, and Brands opted not to swallow his pride.

On the other hand, I have a hunch that that the Bassett parents don't really understand how permissible it is to have travel expenses paid.  I personally have a very hard time believing that there's a carve-out for it in NCAA recruiting, as it's an exception that would swallow the rule.  My own guess is that some third party donor is paying Jax's expenses on the down-low and that, if a complaint were filed, OSU will be like "zOMG, we know nothing of that, but in any case, we can't stop what our silly donors do."  My guess is Bill will learn the practice isn't as widespread as he thinks it is.  Ironically, this may limits Bo's choices to PSU, which they can drive to, or OSU, so long as they're willing to keep the "free travel" gravy train going.

Of course this is all rank speculation, but hey, that's why I'm here.

Altering your wrestling career in such a big way, over such a small thing, is WILD. But, as I said, maybe better for all parties involved. The Bassetts sound like they might be a handful, and maybe BB can add something new to his repertoire elsewhere.

[BruceyB]

54 minutes ago, BAC said:

Point being:  I can't see any good reason why OSU should be allowed to pay for Jax's flights, if that's what's happening.  Would be really curious to know how widespread that practice is, and what legal rationale they're using.  

I don't think any legitimate sources have confirmed or denied that OKST is paying for Jax's travel to and from Stillwater. Likewise, there haven't been any confirmed sources that have said the Bassett's were expecting their travel to be paid for, and/or who's expenses they wanted covered.

The only things that seem to be facts at this point is that Jax has been spending a good amount of time training at Oklahoma State, and when Bill reached out to Brands wanting Bo (and likely Melvin and Keegan) to have similar training opportunities at Iowa, he was told they couldn't due to a compliance issue.

If the numbers that Bo was supposedly going to make through NIL at Iowa are remotely true, a few planes tickets seems like a pretty trivial reason to decommit from a school you have been heavily endorsing since February. Especially when you're a family that flies all over the country year round to attend every major tournament.

[WrestlingRasta]

42 minutes ago, Coastal said:

FACT - Bo Bassett idolized Spencer Lee.  FACT -Bo Bassett spent more time with Spencer Lee.  FACT -Bo Bassett decommited from Iowa.   

Iowa missed their chance to land Taylor and now there's just not a proven option for the next coach.   

 

Doug Schwab