Cuts Coming

[flyingcement]

Using WrestleStat rosters, we are due to lose 398 D1 wrestler to another division or perhaps from the sport altogether.  

I wonder how many will seek to transfer to another program (perhaps in a lower division)?  I would think it would be a shame if the net result from these restrictions would be to lose 14% of all current D1 wresters.  These are also people that could be supporters and boosters in the future, depending on how their experience goes.  

[Idaho]

The 14% that will be cut from rosters had a 1% chance of starting and can easily move to D2 or NAIA. They will get a chance to continue to wrestle and have a better shot at starting and being an AA at a lower level. They have already had the chance to be part of a D1 program and get better in a D1 room. They will be fine. The downward ripple as guys move to lower levels  could force some guys into back-up roles. 

[flyingcement]

4 minutes ago, Idaho said:

The 14% that will be cut from rosters had a 1% chance of starting and can easily move to D2 or NAIA. They will get a chance to continue to wrestle and have a better shot at starting and being an AA at a lower level. They have already had the chance to be part of a D1 program and get better in a D1 room. They will be fine. The downward ripple as guys move to lower levels  could force some guys into back-up roles. 

Part of me worries that for some of the smaller programs, a larger roster (where most did not have scholarships) could be seen as a positive for school revenue.  capping off like these could make it more difficult for smaller programs like Sacred Heart (who has always held a large roster) to stay viable.  I worry about the impact of then schools closing programs because of worse funding situations when we are already up against it in that regard.  

Edited April 5 by flyingcement

[Wrestleknownothing]

17 minutes ago, flyingcement said:

Part of me worries that for some of the smaller programs, a larger roster (where most did not have scholarships) could be seen as a positive for school revenue.  capping off like these could make it more difficult for smaller programs like Sacred Heart (who has always held a large roster) to stay viable.  I worry about the impact of then schools closing programs because of worse funding situations when we are already up against it in that regard.  

The smaller programs are unlikely to be subject to roster limits under the current settlement. Roster limits only apply to schools who are also opting into revenue sharing. For P5 conferences it is mandatory. For everyone else, they have the option to share revenue AND have roster limits, or neither.

[flyingcement]

2 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

The smaller programs are unlikely to be subject to roster limits under the current settlement. Roster limits only apply to schools who are also opting into revenue sharing. For P5 conferences it is mandatory. For everyone else, they have the option to share revenue AND have roster limits, or neither.

If that's the case (which I don't doubt despite your username) then this entire thread has been created on the basis of a false premise.  And for that I apologize.  

[Wrestleknownothing]

Just now, flyingcement said:

If that's the case (which I don't doubt despite your username) then this entire thread has been created on the basis of a false premise.  And for that I apologize.  

It could be very good for the small programs as they pull in some big program exhaust. In theory.

[flyingcement]

Just now, Wrestleknownothing said:

It could be very good for the small programs as they pull in some big program exhaust. In theory.

Yes that's a great point.  Those that may not make the cut at the power five schools can most likely find another home.  It's a nice start to the weekend for the Phillies to beat the Dodgers and for this misunderstanding of my to have been resolved.  

[D3 for LU]

There's always room @ LEHIGH!

(AND always room for JELL-O.)

D3

[Room Guy]

3 hours ago, Idaho said:

The 14% that will be cut from rosters had a 1% chance of starting and can easily move to D2 or NAIA. They will get a chance to continue to wrestle and have a better shot at starting and being an AA at a lower level. They have already had the chance to be part of a D1 program and get better in a D1 room. They will be fine. The downward ripple as guys move to lower levels  could force some guys into back-up roles. 

Not everyone wants to go to some dump college and many prefer to be at a major university regardless.

Edited April 5 by Room Guy

[bnwtwg]

I'm very uneducated on this particular point so could someone ELI5 please. Why would a small school choose not to opt in to the revenue sharing model? What are the advantages and disadvantages as it relates to small schools 

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 hour ago, bnwtwg said:

I'm very uneducated on this particular point so could someone ELI5 please. Why would a small school choose not to opt in to the revenue sharing model? What are the advantages and disadvantages as it relates to small schools 

Smaller schools can opt in and make direct payments to athletes of any size as there is no minimum, only a cap, on those payments. That would also allow them to offer more scholarships. But it would come at the cost of roster caps. All three of those things cost money as the roster cap has the potential to cost the school tuition revenue. So if you are a school without a money making football or basketball program that you need to support in order to compete, it probably doesn't make sense to opt in.

[nhs67]

Without searching, who all has NOT opted in to revenue sharing?

[BigRedFan]

25 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Without searching, who all has NOT opted in to revenue sharing?

I believe the Ivy League has indicated they will not be opting in.

[Wrestleknownothing]

32 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Without searching, who all has NOT opted in to revenue sharing?

The settlement is up for approval Monday, so no one so far, technically, but as BigRed indicates, only the Ivies have announced their intention.

The power 5 (Big Ten, ACC, Big 12, SEC, and Pac12) are required to opt in.

[1032004]

Doing some googling this seems like a good summary overall:  

https://www.avemarialaw.edu/house-settlement/

It does seem odd that it apparently doesn’t address Title IX.  
 

And here is something from a couple days ago from our friends at Flo:

https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/14039570-how-will-ncaa-revenue-sharing-affect-college-wrestling

 

[Idaho]

10 hours ago, Room Guy said:

Not everyone wants to go to some dump college and many prefer to be at a major university regardless.

Sure, but the bottom 14% are not going to have their preference to stay.  Maybe time for those 4th-5th string guys to realize they need to make a decision to not wrestle anymore or move down a level. Reality.  And I wouldn't exactly call Grandview, Augsburg or any other of those quality lower level schools dumps. 

Edited April 5 by Idaho

[MPhillips]

14 hours ago, flyingcement said:

Using WrestleStat rosters

Power Five Schools. Here's where we were in July...

School	2023-24 Roster	Conference
Oregon State	43	Pac 12
Iowa State	41	Big 12
Iowa	40	Big 10
Michigan State	39	Big 10
Missouri	38	SEC/Big 12
Oklahoma State	38	Big 12
Arizona State	37	Big 12
Michigan	37	Big 10
Penn State	37	Big 10
West Virginia	37	Big 12
Nebraska	35	Big 10
Oklahoma	35	SEC/Big 12
Ohio State	34	Big 10
Virginia Tech	34	ACC
Virginia	33	ACC
Indiana	32	Big 10
Maryland	32	Big 10
North Carolina	32	ACC
Pittsburgh	32	ACC
NC State	31	ACC
Purdue	31	Big 10

 

Updated

Oregon State is down to 36.  PSU @ 35. Iowa @ 35. OKST @ 42. NEB @ 33. Ohio State @ 27.  

Guys in the Portal were not counted in updated #'s....

[Fletcher]

3 hours ago, BigRedFan said:

I believe the Ivy League has indicated they will not be opting in.

I thought you had to opt in to be eligible for the NCAA tourney. I must be incorrect since obviously the Ivies wouldn't opt out if it meant that.

[Buford]

Some of the wrestlers will move to the RTC and you might not see that change to roster for a long time.

[Wrestleknownothing]

20 minutes ago, Fletcher said:

I thought you had to opt in to be eligible for the NCAA tourney. I must be incorrect since obviously the Ivies wouldn't opt out if it meant that.

Opting in, or not, does not affect championship eligibility.

https://www.knightcommission.org/wp-content/uploads/KnightCommissionBrief_HousevNCAA_182025.pdf

From page 2:

NCAA bylaws governing DI membership and access to DI championships are not impacted by the House settlement.

[Halden]

57 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

Power Five Schools. Here's where we were in July...

School	2023-24 Roster	Conference
Oregon State	43	Pac 12
Iowa State	41	Big 12
Iowa	40	Big 10
Michigan State	39	Big 10
Missouri	38	SEC/Big 12
Oklahoma State	38	Big 12
Arizona State	37	Big 12
Michigan	37	Big 10
Penn State	37	Big 10
West Virginia	37	Big 12
Nebraska	35	Big 10
Oklahoma	35	SEC/Big 12
Ohio State	34	Big 10
Virginia Tech	34	ACC
Virginia	33	ACC
Indiana	32	Big 10
Maryland	32	Big 10
North Carolina	32	ACC
Pittsburgh	32	ACC
NC State	31	ACC
Purdue	31	Big 10

 

Updated

Oregon State is down to 36.  PSU @ 35. Iowa @ 35. OKST @ 42. NEB @ 33. Ohio State @ 27.  

Guys in the Portal were not counted in updated #'s....

Based on this, it looks like about 100 displaced P5 displaced wrestlers.  If only the P5 schools opt in, which seems likely, then there will be another 50+ D1 programs to scoop up those 100.  Seems less drastic than I had originally thought, although I'm sure Grand View will be happy to have a few more ISU guys on the roster. 

[Caveira]

18 minutes ago, Halden said:

Based on this, it looks like about 100 displaced P5 displaced wrestlers.  If only the P5 schools opt in, which seems likely, then there will be another 50+ D1 programs to scoop up those 100.  Seems less drastic than I had originally thought, although I'm sure Grand View will be happy to have a few more ISU guys on the roster. 

I’m sure the displaced starters at smaller schools will love this.  

[Leg rider]

12 minutes ago, Caveira said:

I’m sure the displaced starters at smaller schools will love this.  

As well as the walkons that aren't going to change schools because of wrestling but still wanted to be involved in the sport .I was an invited walkon at a D1 school, never started a match but provided a good workout partner probably could have competed at a lower level but I wasn't going to leave the school I wanted to be at for academics if they had done this while I was in school

[Buford]

I know Iowa State is well under the 41 posted.   Probably closer to 30 than 41.  But without seeing the list, not sure who is on the list that shouldn't be

[MPhillips]

2 minutes ago, Buford said:

I know Iowa State is well under the 41 posted.   Probably closer to 30 than 41.  But without seeing the list, not sure who is on the list that shouldn't be

That number is from July as noted...

They have 38, not counting the 4 in the Portal.