What if I told you, that Carson Kharchla…

[1032004]

…is the only person that beat Michael Caliendo in an attached match, that hasn’t won a NCAA title?

Looked into Kharchla’s wrestlestat after Rocco Welsh claimed he needed better partners.

In 2023 he beat Michael Caliendo at NCAA’s, although Kharchla only finished R12 and Caliendo got 7th.

But I noticed that since his redshirt year, Caliendo has had 14 losses.  They were to:

Mitchell Mesenbrink 6x

Keegan O’Toole 3x

Shane Griffith 2x

Dean Hamiti 

David Carr

 

and Carson Kharchla.

 

That’s got to be some sort of record for most # + highest % of total losses to eventual National Champs right?

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Caliendo might be the best to never win it

[Caveira]

10 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

…is the only person that beat Michael Caliendo in an attached match, that hasn’t won a NCAA title?

Looked into Kharchla’s wrestlestat after Rocco Welsh claimed he needed better partners.

In 2023 he beat Michael Caliendo at NCAA’s, although Kharchla only finished R12 and Caliendo got 7th.

But I noticed that since his redshirt year, Caliendo has had 14 losses.  They were to:

Mitchell Mesenbrink 6x

Keegan O’Toole 3x

Shane Griffith 2x

Dean Hamiti 

David Carr

 

and Carson Kharchla.

 

That’s got to be some sort of record for most # + highest % of total losses to eventual National Champs right?

Never knew.  Impressive thanks 

[BFosr1]

Carson was right there with O’Toole the year he won his first one. Would have loved to see how good he could have been if he had stayed healthy and not blew out his knee.

Same goes with Sammy Sasso. This season would have been very interesting to watch as an Ohio State fan if Kharchla stayed healthy and Sasso didn’t get shot. You can even include Nick Feldman and his neck injury where he hasn’t been the same since.

[1032004]

10 minutes ago, BFosr1 said:

Carson was right there with O’Toole the year he won his first one. Would have loved to see how good he could have been if he had stayed healthy and not blew out his knee.

Same goes with Sammy Sasso. This season would have been very interesting to watch as an Ohio State fan if Kharchla stayed healthy and Sasso didn’t get shot. You can even include Nick Feldman and his neck injury where he hasn’t been the same since.

Was he injured any more at the end of the season?  He was also right with Haines this year too, and beat Kennedy twice who got 4th at NCAA’s.  Seemed to me like he just had a bad postseason. 

[pokemonster]

15 minutes ago, BFosr1 said:

Carson was right there with O’Toole the year he won his first one. Would have loved to see how good he could have been if he had stayed healthy and not blew out his knee.

Same goes with Sammy Sasso. This season would have been very interesting to watch as an Ohio State fan if Kharchla stayed healthy and Sasso didn’t get shot. You can even include Nick Feldman and his neck injury where he hasn’t been the same since.

He really is a great wrestler who just seems to not put it all together.

Idk if this is factual, because it's on Reddit, but people are saying they have sources inside the program that are saying Jaggers is running the practices Iowa "I will break you today" style, and that they're beating the hell out of everyone. People getting way too injured as a result. Would be interesting if true. 

[MizzouFan01]

1 hour ago, BFosr1 said:

Carson was right there with O’Toole the year he won his first one. Would have loved to see how good he could have been if he had stayed healthy and not blew out his knee.

Same goes with Sammy Sasso. This season would have been very interesting to watch as an Ohio State fan if Kharchla stayed healthy and Sasso didn’t get shot. You can even include Nick Feldman and his neck injury where he hasn’t been the same since.

No discredit to Carson, but KOT was injured the match prior to Carson. Ankle I believe. KOT won 4-0. 2023 KOT second title he beat Carson via tech 19-4. Unsure the health of Carson that year.  Personally I’ve enjoyed watching Carson wrestle. Lots of points when he’s on.

[wrestle87]

2 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Caliendo might be the best to never win it

We forget about jon trenge and daniel cormier this quickly?

[1032004]

11 minutes ago, wrestle87 said:

We forget about jon trenge and daniel cormier this quickly?

He’s probably not even the best Iowa 157-174 pounder from the last 5 years 

[scourge165]

2 hours ago, BFosr1 said:

Carson was right there with O’Toole the year he won his first one. Would have loved to see how good he could have been if he had stayed healthy and not blew out his knee.

Same goes with Sammy Sasso. This season would have been very interesting to watch as an Ohio State fan if Kharchla stayed healthy and Sasso didn’t get shot. You can even include Nick Feldman and his neck injury where he hasn’t been the same since.

Throw a healthy Sasso in at '65 or...'57 and Cannon in at '65 and then Welsh probably Wrestles '84.

You get Sasso healthy, that's another potential(likely) finalist, Welsh...top 4, healthy Feldman...maybe Davino. And now you start to pick up that momentum that Nebraska got, you start wrestling for each other as much as yourself and I feel like it's a snowball effect. 

Senseless gun shots. 

Instead the momentum went the other way...

But hey, Sasso was back on the mat, he was a solid Wrestler and...that's a helluva lot more important than anything elee that's happened with any OSU teams this year. 

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, pokemonster said:

He really is a great wrestler who just seems to not put it all together.

Idk if this is factual, because it's on Reddit, but people are saying they have sources inside the program that are saying Jaggers is running the practices Iowa "I will break you today" style, and that they're beating the hell out of everyone. People getting way too injured as a result. Would be interesting if true. 

I feel like the injuries just come from the modern style of Wrestling. 

What are MOST of the injuries? Knees, ankles. Occasionally a shoulder when someone gets extended. 

Certainly you can overtrain and get injured. The NFL has been studying that to try and limit the hammy and groin pulls, but...when you're putting your knee in a position where it's being bent up and away from it's natural range of motions...well, injuries are going to happen. Penn State, Iowa, Ohio State. One school can just make up for it more. 

[wrestle87]

1 minute ago, scourge165 said:

I feel like the injuries just come from the modern style of Wrestling. 

What are MOST of the injuries? Knees, ankles. Occasionally a shoulder when someone gets extended. 

Certainly you can overtrain and get injured. The NFL has been studying that to try and limit the hammy and groin pulls, but...when you're putting your knee in a position where it's being bent up and away from it's natural range of motions...well, injuries are going to happen. Penn State, Iowa, Ohio State. One school can just make up for it more. 

Shoulders used to be the predominant injury.  Leg passing has taken ACL’s and rocketed them past shoulders 5x.

[BigRedFan]

2 hours ago, 1032004 said:

That’s got to be some sort of record for most # + highest % of total losses to eventual National Champs right?

100% of Ryan Crookham's losses so far (attached) are to National Champs.

[BruceyB]

2 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

I feel like the injuries just come from the modern style of Wrestling. 

What are MOST of the injuries? Knees, ankles. Occasionally a shoulder when someone gets extended. 

Certainly you can overtrain and get injured. The NFL has been studying that to try and limit the hammy and groin pulls, but...when you're putting your knee in a position where it's being bent up and away from it's natural range of motions...well, injuries are going to happen. Penn State, Iowa, Ohio State. One school can just make up for it more. 

Askren talked about this recently too. How important it is to understand scrambles and that if you do X, the your opponent likely does Y, etc. etc. and understanding how to avoid putting yourself in dangerous scrambles. He talked about learning a lot as he had little tweaks and injuries while figuring out his fundamental scrambling style. It's kind of crazy to me, especially in regular season matches the positions these guys are putting their knees in.. hoping for a stalemate or to avoid a single takedown. I cringe so often hoping for a stoppage that the athlete literally put themselves in just because I don't want to see an injury.. I do wonder how much would be eliminated if the athletes willingly putting themselves into those positions stopped getting bailed out by PD calls. The rubber knee is the most obvious position here.

[1032004]

8 minutes ago, BigRedFan said:

100% of Ryan Crookham's losses so far (attached) are to National Champs.

But he only has 1.  The crazy thing about  Caliendo IMO is the number of them 

[BruceyB]

5 minutes ago, BigRedFan said:

100% of Ryan Crookham's losses so far (attached) are to National Champs.

David Taylor's losses are 100% to National Champs.

Ben Askren is 153-1 if you get rid of his Pendleton losses FR/SO year

Retherford 125-1 without his TRFR losses to Stieber

Bo Nickal only has 1 loss to a non-champ (Nate Jackson)

Isaiah Martinez never lost to a non-champ..

Gable Steveson..

Dan Gable..

Those are a handful that came to mind.. I'm sure the list is exhaustive.

The real question would be the win/loss record of those to never win a championship. That's where wrestlers like Caliendo (so far), Tyler Caldwell, Daton Fix, etc. would be more interesting.

[Kov88]

Title sounds like a 30 for 30 lol

[1032004]

14 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

David Taylor's losses are 100% to National Champs.

Ben Askren is 153-1 if you get rid of his Pendleton losses FR/SO year

Retherford 125-1 without his TRFR losses to Stieber

Bo Nickal only has 1 loss to a non-champ (Nate Jackson)

Isaiah Martinez never lost to a non-champ..

Gable Steveson..

Dan Gable..

Those are a handful that came to mind.. I'm sure the list is exhaustive.

The real question would be the win/loss record of those to never win a championship. That's where wrestlers like Caliendo (so far), Tyler Caldwell, Daton Fix, etc. would be more interesting.

Fix had 2 losses to non-champs (McGee and Phillippi), and also only 7 in total

[scourge165]

4 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

Askren talked about this recently too. How important it is to understand scrambles and that if you do X, the your opponent likely does Y, etc. etc. and understanding how to avoid putting yourself in dangerous scrambles. He talked about learning a lot as he had little tweaks and injuries while figuring out his fundamental scrambling style. It's kind of crazy to me, especially in regular season matches the positions these guys are putting their knees in.. hoping for a stalemate or to avoid a single takedown. I cringe so often hoping for a stoppage that the athlete literally put themselves in just because I don't want to see an injury.. I do wonder how much would be eliminated if the athletes willingly putting themselves into those positions stopped getting bailed out by PD calls. The rubber knee is the most obvious position here.

Yeah...the arrogance of youth. I was trying to scratch the middle of my back the other day and my shoulder popped out.

These kids are more flexible, but when you stretch a rubber band enough, over and over...it's going to loosen it's elasticity and then it's going to tear. 

Some of these really are on the athlete though. And Askren's guys...I'm sure he's had guys injured, but he did seem to have a few things going for him. He would go out there vs Jake Herbert who looked like Drago from Rocky and Askren...did not. But he was like Gumby, his knees and shoulders bent in ways they shouldn't have and he had preternatural grip strength. 

I remember he and Herbert Wrestled and Askren would be on his belly, Herbert on his hip, full heavy hips, pulling Askren's arms up so he's reaching back...and he wasn't able to break his lock. It was insane. Nobody else holds on, Herbert scores on anyone else. 

 

But, I would imagine that's a bit part of the "play wrestling," as well. 

[Idaho]

4 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Caliendo might be the best to never win it

Not even close... Deanna, Kevin Jackson. Tyrone Lewis, Nick Simmons, Fix, Zaputil, Zeke Jones.... lots of great ones that didn't win a title.  

[RawDog]

11 hours ago, BFosr1 said:

Carson was right there with O’Toole the year he won his first one. Would have loved to see how good he could have been if he had stayed healthy and not blew out his knee.

Same goes with Sammy Sasso. This season would have been very interesting to watch as an Ohio State fan if Kharchla stayed healthy and Sasso didn’t get shot. You can even include Nick Feldman and his neck injury where he hasn’t been the same since.

Yea, you know Ohio State has had some sh*t luck lately. Especially with also losing Welsh.

[MPhillips]

11 hours ago, BFosr1 said:

This season would have been very interesting to watch as an Ohio State fan if Kharchla stayed healthy and Sasso didn’t get shot.

Wouldn't Sasso's eligibility been used up the year prior if he wouldn't have been shot...

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

12 hours ago, BFosr1 said:

Carson was right there with O’Toole the year he won his first one. Would have loved to see how good he could have been if he had stayed healthy and not blew out his knee.

Same goes with Sammy Sasso. This season would have been very interesting to watch as an Ohio State fan if Kharchla stayed healthy and Sasso didn’t get shot. You can even include Nick Feldman and his neck injury where he hasn’t been the same since.

Feldman< I'm not so sure about.  He had a great post-season in 2024.

This year, he only lost to wrestlers with equal or better accolades in the post season.

[JimmyCinnabon]

34 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

Wouldn't Sasso's eligibility been used up the year prior if he wouldn't have been shot...

I was also going to point this out. If he isn't shot he wrestles last year.

[11986]

10 hours ago, BigRedFan said:

100% of Ryan Crookham's losses so far (attached) are to National Champs.

speaking of Lehigh, Darryl Burley was 94-5-1. 3 losses and a tie with Randy Lewis, a loss to Jim Gibbons, and a loss to Mike Land. 100% to National champs.