Brennan

[GimJustafan]

my head hurts 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

11 minutes ago, ionel said:

Pretty sure that's what @BarSeries is saying they did but they may have misapplied or misinterpreted the rules.  Smaller universities will probably have fewer athletic compliance personnel and/or spread thinner.  People make mistakes.  

Lot of mistakes being made.  Compliance personnel, coaches, and the athlete can't count to 4?  My guess is at least one of those parties knew what was going on.

Edited March 14 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[dragit]

On the merits they can't properly win the appeal.  Best case scenario is they are able to demonstrate they misunderstood the rule and shouldn't be hit with sanctions because the error wasn't bad faith.

[Wrestleknownothing]

11 minutes ago, GimJustafan said:

my head hurts 

 

[gimpeltf]

He might be the only one to take things this far but isn't the only one to try. Lehigh's Josh Humphreys was injured in 2021 and a shirt year thinking he could come back. Didn't happen.

[ionel]

24 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Lot of mistakes being made.  Compliance personnel, coaches, and the athlete can't count to 4?  My guess is at least one of those parties knew what was going on.

Look at Brennan's record on WS and then Starocci's.  Very subtle difference in why one gets 4 and one gets 5.  I have no idea why they needed to give Starocci 5.  

[ionel]

22 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

 

maybe its the bourbon 

[1032004]

58 minutes ago, BarSeries said:

Alternative is following the rules. 

This is the NCAA, there are no rules anymore 

[Coastal]

47 minutes ago, fishbane said:

That's not fully correct.  You should change "unless they competed in the 2020 championships" to "unless he competed in 4 postseasons prior to 2021."  For example Gable Steveson wrestled at the 2020 Big Ten Championships, which he won.  This is Mr. Stevenson's 5th postseason.  He won 4 titles in 5 tries at the Big Ten championships.  Aaron Brooks is similar, but without the Olympic redshirt.  He won 4 Big Ten titles in 5 tries including a win in 2020.  Mark Hall however competed in 4 Big Ten championships the 4th of which was in 2020.  He was not eligible to wrestle in 2021.  The same was true of Vincenzo Joseph.

My opinion on Brennan is that he must be deemed ineligible and disqualified.  The Pac 12 Runner-up should replace him and Little Rock should be stripped of the PAC 12 team title. 

You missed the IF they competed in the 2021 championships.    The class that got screwed into only three chances, of which Hall and Joseph were a part, did not compete in 2021.

[Winners Circle]

17 minutes ago, ionel said:

Look at Brennan's record on WS and then Starocci's.  Very subtle difference in why one gets 4 and one gets 5.  I have no idea why they needed to give Starocci 5.  

Yes. The subtle difference is that one of Starocci's 5 was 2021. Not the case for Brennan.

Edited March 14 by Winners Circle

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

20 minutes ago, ionel said:

Look at Brennan's record on WS and then Starocci's.  Very subtle difference in why one gets 4 and one gets 5.  I have no idea why they needed to give Starocci 5.  

I am FAR from Starocci's biggest fan, but even I can see a clear difference.  I'm also not an NCAA compliance officer, but I know that a lot of someones made a huge mistake.

Should Cael get a 5th year?

[fishbane]

27 minutes ago, ionel said:

Look at Brennan's record on WS and then Starocci's.  Very subtle difference in why one gets 4 and one gets 5.  I have no idea why they needed to give Starocci 5.  

It makes less sense looking at it retrospectively.   The thinking at the time was that very few athletes would choose to compete in 2020-2021 if they were risking a year of eligibility to do so.  The season could have been cancelled midseason or an untimely positive covid test result could prevent a wrestler from taking part in the post season.  It was done to incentivize competition that year.  Starocci was able to take advantage that year.  Unfortunately Brennan was not.

[fishbane]

28 minutes ago, Coastal said:

You missed the IF they competed in the 2021 championships.    The class that got screwed into only three chances, of which Hall and Joseph were a part, did not compete in 2021.

You wrote "A wrestler may compete in 5 post seasons if one of those were the 2021 championships unless they competed in the 2020 championships."  As I said that isn't exactly right.  The way it's written it gets the right answer for Hall and Joseph, but the incorrect answer for Steven and Brooks.  Both Brooks and Steveson wrestled in 5 post seasons INCLUDING the 2020 postseason.  By your statement that would not be allowed. 

Edited March 14 by fishbane

[ionel]

16 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

Yes. The subtle difference is that one of Starocci's 5 was 2021. Not the case for Brennan.

and apparently someone made a mistake on that subtle difference.  

[BarSeries]

What was the reasoning on not giving seniors an extra year?

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 minute ago, BarSeries said:

What was the reasoning on not giving seniors an extra year?

I don't think they knew how long the thing was going to last.  That affected decision making.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

6 minutes ago, ionel said:

and apparently someone made a mistake on that subtle difference.  

It is kind of a big deal, especially when it is that person's job.  Do you think the kid or his teammates or his coaches didn't have an inkling that something was a bit fishy?  JV Rader did, for crying out loud!

[fishbane]

5 minutes ago, BarSeries said:

What was the reasoning on not giving seniors an extra year?

Seniors at least in wrestling only missed one date.  They competed essentially a full season.  I think it was also a multi sport decision and the post season is more limited or less important in other sports.  Spring athletes who missed the entire season got their eligibility extended.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 minute ago, fishbane said:

Seniors at least in wrestling only missed one date.  They competed essentially a full season.  I think it was also a multi sport decision and the post season is more limited or less important in other sports.  Spring athletes who missed the entire season got their eligibility extended.

Yes.  And they/we were making it up as we went along.  For about two years.

[Coastal]

9 minutes ago, fishbane said:

You wrote "A wrestler may compete in 5 post seasons if one of those were the 2021 championships unless they competed in the 2020 championships."  As I said that isn't exactly right.  The way it's written it gets the right answer for Hall and Joseph, but the incorrect answer for Steven and Brooks.  Both Brooks and Steveson wrestled in 5 post seasons INCLUDING the 2020 postseason.  By your statement that would not be allowed. 

Brooks and Steveson did/will compete for 4 NCAA Championships since they used a year in 2020.  Starocci will compete for 5 NCAA Championships because he did not use a year in 2020.

That time you missed the number 5.    

People who wrestling in the 2019-2020 season got either 3 or 4 bites at the Championship apple.   Brennan in this case should only get 4 bites.  He is trying to get his 5th bite and that is not allowed. 

 

[ionel]

3 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

It is kind of a big deal, especially when it is that person's job.  Do you think the kid or his teammates or his coaches didn't have an inkling that something was a bit fishy?  JV Rader did, for crying out loud!

LR just started their program correct?  Did they hire a new compliance officer for wrestling or just load the duties on someone already on staff?  Or do you think it was an evil conspiracy to win a team trophy?  How does it compare to compliance looking the other way when top 5 programs have exceeded scholarship limits? 

[Spencerlee]

Imagine if Iowa had the ability to still have Spencer and Real Woods. That’s a team title.

[fishbane]

16 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Yes.  And they/we were making it up as we went along.  For about two years.

For any senior that didn't qualify for NCAAs in 2020 they missed absolutely nothing.  Do you only award an extra year for the NCAA qualifiers?  

Back to the topic of the thread Tyler Brennan didn't qualify for NCAAs in 2020.  He missed absolutely nothing that year.  Why should he get another year?  I mean he had the opportunity to get a free year in 2021 and couldn't use it.  I think it sends the wrong message to let him wrestle because it incentivizes trying to break the rules.  If no one notices before the conference tournament then you're good to go. 

Edited March 14 by fishbane

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

Just now, ionel said:

LR just started their program correct?  Did they hire a new compliance officer for wrestling or just load the duties on someone already on staff?  Or do you think it was an evil conspiracy to win a team trophy?  How does it compare to compliance looking the other way when top 5 programs have exceeded scholarship limits? 

How many people do you need to count "1 year, 2 years, 3 years, 4 years... ok, eligibility expired"? 40 kids on their roster.  I'm guessing it doesn't take a lot of work to make sure 40 kids haven't used more than 4 years.  No one in their program could accurately count to 4?

[cowcards]

2 hours ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

No. I'm confused and asking.   Why has he already wrestled 5 championships and why is he the only wrestler in this situation?

Only wrestlers who competed in 2021 were given a free year and those wrestlers are the only ones allowed to wrestle in 5 postseason tournaments. 

Brennan wrestled in 2020, 2022, 2023, & 2024. That uses his 4 years of eligibility. He didn't compete during 2021, he redshirted, so he didn't get the free year.

Even if he did compete during 2021, 2024 would've been his last year of eligibility unless he redshirted in any of 2022, 2023, 2024. 

He wasn't allowed to wrestle in 2025, but a few people (coaches, little rock compliance/athletic department, PAC 10 conference) messed up his eligibility checks. There is a world where people would just assume that EVERYONE got the free year no matter what if they were enrolled in 2021. Not at that level or this far out though. 

Hope that makes more sense.