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Posted
1 hour ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

image.thumb.png.7f38e23ab2992301bf678cf7cfab1d32.png

One caveat. That weird orange bar includes years where they gave out AAs like covid relief funds. For example, there are two AAs in that total that never won an NCAA tournament match. I wish I could remember which team that was.

Numbers would change if the years of 3, 5 and then 6 All Americans were changed to the current eight.

” Never attribute to inspiration that which can be adequately explained by delusion”.

Posted
8 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

To put it simply, I think guys who spend RS at another school, but never actually wrestled a season there (Kerk and Mesenbrink) is a slightly different case than we're talking about. All of Iowa's transfers were already AA's when they stepped on campus. But regardless, the difference between Iowa and PSU is what their lineups look like if you take away transfers.

125: Lilledahl

133: Davis

141: Bartlett

149: SVN

157: Kasak

165: Facundo

174: Haines

184: Starocci

197: Barr

285: Nevills would have never left (or they'd probably have a hole here presuming they wouldn't have landed a recruit since 2020).

Feel free to share Iowa's lineup without transfers.

Have a nice day sir.   No reason to continue with this.  

  • Bob 1
Posted
24 minutes ago, AgaveMaria said:

Numbers would change if the years of 3, 5 and then 6 All Americans were changed to the current eight.

Yes, the numbers change when you change them. Brilliant observation.

  • Bob 1

Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge

Posted
3 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Or follow Askren's advice?

If you want to go to Iowa, go someplace else first. If you do well, get paid to go to Iowa.

Yeah, that was a pretty compelling and damning argument against going to Iowa.

I don't really understand the debate here. I don't believe any Iowa Wrestling fan is actually happy with the "other than Penn State," asterisk that they keep using, or the 'what about Mesenbrink, Kerk...." 

I don't think anyone's saying the problem with Iowa is that they're recruiting guys like Woods or Teamer who were AAs, the problem is...they haven't done nearly as well at getting their own blue-chip recruits to come in and have a lot of immediate success. 

 

This Iowa. It's like Alabama Football. Does anyone think 'Bama is going to suddenly become alright with, 'well, other than Georgia how many team shave been better?' 

Brands started off his run at Iowa with the Va Tech 5. Those were 5 High School studs who came to Wrestle for him. That they had to transfer after sitting a year(like Mesenbrink or Kerk) isn't the point. Just as with Metcalf, Borschel, neither used a year of eligibility elsewhere. 

 

Penn State and Ohio State were always underachieving given the in-state talent. Iowa to a lesser extent, Okie State got the blue chip recruits because that's where you went if you wanted to be a part of something bigger, wanted to win multiple titles, team titles and maybe have international success. Now that Cael and Ryan are getting those blue chip recruits, it seems like Iowa needs something else. Okie State went and got David Taylor and certainly seems to be on the right track, but...Iowa appears like they're falling behind and using the money they have to buy a few guys each year who were high AAs.

 

That'll keep a program like Iowa in the team trophy race, but...I'm not sure it's going to get them back to where they expect to be(unless they don't expect to be there any longer). 

 

Perhaps Bassett, Forrest and Ross end up at Iowa and can help get Iowa back to the Mt top. It's also help if Arnold, Ferrari and Keuter all live up to their potential and then stick around and pursue careers with the HWC at the Sr level. That'd be a massive boost.

 

And before the "Iowa hater/PSU fan," comes out, I'm neither. I am amazed at what PSU is doing...but I grew up doing the same with Iowa...I just see the gap widening between them and PSU while it appears to be closing with the OSU's behind them. If it was JUST about picking up transfers, we'd be talking about Michigan. 

  • Bob 2
Posted

 

6 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

I don't really understand the debate here. I don't believe any Iowa Wrestling fan is actually happy with the "other than Penn State," asterisk that they keep using, or the 'what about Mesenbrink, Kerk...." 

I don't think anyone's saying the problem with Iowa is that they're recruiting guys like Woods or Teamer who were AAs, the problem is...they haven't done nearly as well at getting their own blue-chip recruits to come in and have a lot of immediate success. 

This is exactly what I have been saying the entire time. Everything in your post is the sentiment I was coming from.

  • Bob 1
Posted
20 hours ago, scourge165 said:

 

Brands started off his run at Iowa with the Va Tech 5. Those were 5 High School studs who came to Wrestle for him. That they had to transfer after sitting a year(like Mesenbrink or Kerk) isn't the point. Just as with Metcalf, Borschel, neither used a year of eligibility elsewhere. 

 

 

 

Is this accurate?  I don't remember MM or Kerk having to sit.  Typo?

Posted
5 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Is this accurate?  I don't remember MM or Kerk having to sit.  Typo?

They did not have to sit out. I think it was misworded.

  • Bob 2
Posted (edited)
On 12/29/2024 at 5:11 PM, ionel said:

What say you @Idaho?  

With the amount of money Iowa has to recruit guys off rosters, I am certain this is true.

I bring unorthodox training methods ....

image.png.d5ebf55bfc2d024131ba3bfb212d2be6.png

 

Edited by Idaho
  • Potato 1

Sponsored by INTERMAT ⭐⭐⭐⭐

Posted

Does every school have a succession plan or just Iowa need one?

The reality is, while Iowa fans (or any other fan base) might not like being behind PSU, Brands is doing a good enough job to be retained.   We are not that far removed from the 2021 National Championship (and favorites at the 2020 had it been held). 

Brands seems to still a have passion for the job so it doesn't seem like he will retire soon.   And if the Iowa standard is you have to beat PSU, then they may not like the results they get after Brands either. 

Posted
2 hours ago, Dogbone said:

Does every school have a succession plan or just Iowa need one?

The reality is, while Iowa fans (or any other fan base) might not like being behind PSU, Brands is doing a good enough job to be retained.   We are not that far removed from the 2021 National Championship (and favorites at the 2020 had it been held). 

Brands seems to still a have passion for the job so it doesn't seem like he will retire soon.   And if the Iowa standard is you have to beat PSU, then they may not like the results they get after Brands either. 

While they are not old by age, they have been coaching a good amount of time. Tom has been a head coach for 20 years. He might be thinking 25 years is plenty and retire. I think it is a valid question of any team that a coach that is approach 25 years of running programs and 60 years of age. Ohio State should be asking the same questions.

Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, JeanGuy said:

While they are not old by age, they have been coaching a good amount of time. Tom has been a head coach for 20 years. He might be thinking 25 years is plenty and retire. I think it is a valid question of any team that a coach that is approach 25 years of running programs and 60 years of age. Ohio State should be asking the same questions.

J smith lasted approx 33 years.   Jrob 30.  And I don’t think he retired on purpose.  Just for context.  

Edited by Caveira
Posted

This post is approx a year old and I stole it from @fishbane to give him credit.  I just copied and pasted it.  But context.  A ton of coaches are in brands age bracket.  
 

John Smith 1988 graduate of OSU 58 years old. OSU head coach

Rob Koll 1988 graduate of UNC Chapel Hill.  Stanford head coach.

Tom Borrelli 1979 graduate of the Citadel.  CMU Head coach. - His name came up but they weren't sure of his age.

Nate Carr 1983 graduate of ISU.  63 years old. Davidson head coach.

Kevin Dresser 1986 graduate of the University of Iowa.  60 years old. ISU head coach.

Pat Santoro 1989 graduate of Pitt.  Lehigh head coach.

Mark Manning 1985 graduate of University of Nebraska-Omaha.  Nebraska Lincoln head coach. - He also came up.

Roger Reina 1984 graduate of the University of Pennsylvania.  Current Penn head coach.

Mark Cody 1985 graduate of University of Missouri.  Head coach  Presbyterian College.

Posted
5 hours ago, Caveira said:

This post is approx a year old and I stole it from @fishbane to give him credit.  I just copied and pasted it.  But context.  A ton of coaches are in brands age bracket.  
 

 

John Smith 1988 graduate of OSU 58 years old. OSU head coach

Rob Koll 1988 graduate of UNC Chapel Hill.  Stanford head coach.

Tom Borrelli 1979 graduate of the Citadel.  CMU Head coach. - His name came up but they weren't sure of his age.

Nate Carr 1983 graduate of ISU.  63 years old. Davidson head coach.

Kevin Dresser 1986 graduate of the University of Iowa.  60 years old. ISU head coach.

Pat Santoro 1989 graduate of Pitt.  Lehigh head coach.

Mark Manning 1985 graduate of University of Nebraska-Omaha.  Nebraska Lincoln head coach. - He also came up.

Roger Reina 1984 graduate of the University of Pennsylvania.  Current Penn head coach.

Mark Cody 1985 graduate of University of Missouri.  Head coach  Presbyterian College.

Nate Carr Jr is the head coach at Davidson. 

Posted
On 12/31/2024 at 3:04 PM, Caveira said:

This post is approx a year old and I stole it from @fishbane to give him credit.  I just copied and pasted it.  But context.  A ton of coaches are in brands age bracket.  
 

 

John Smith 1988 graduate of OSU 58 years old. OSU head coach

Rob Koll 1988 graduate of UNC Chapel Hill.  Stanford head coach.

Tom Borrelli 1979 graduate of the Citadel.  CMU Head coach. - His name came up but they weren't sure of his age.

Nate Carr 1983 graduate of ISU.  63 years old. Davidson head coach.

Kevin Dresser 1986 graduate of the University of Iowa.  60 years old. ISU head coach.

Pat Santoro 1989 graduate of Pitt.  Lehigh head coach.

Mark Manning 1985 graduate of University of Nebraska-Omaha.  Nebraska Lincoln head coach. - He also came up.

Roger Reina 1984 graduate of the University of Pennsylvania.  Current Penn head coach.

Mark Cody 1985 graduate of University of Missouri.  Head coach  Presbyterian College.

9 listed.. two retired leaving 7 other coaches being in the Brands age range would mean that they old. I imagine within the next 5 years will leave far fewer. This is no slight against the Brands, 60 is just an older age for coaching. I am also curious out of this list, who is leaning most heavily on their assistants who act as essentially head coaches in the room, while they primarily take care of administrative tasks. I would assume that Metcalf has a lot of responsibility, just like Snyder in Nebraska. It seems like in the final years of a coaches career, they often slowly let go of the reigns and pass them to their successor. I imagine this is why Coleman Scott left UNC to come back to OSU before Taylor's name was considered a realistic possibility.

Posted
On 12/31/2024 at 6:04 PM, Caveira said:

John Smith 1988 graduate of OSU 58 years old. OSU head coach

Rob Koll 1988 graduate of UNC Chapel Hill.  Stanford head coach.

Tom Borrelli 1979 graduate of the Citadel.  CMU Head coach. - His name came up but they weren't sure of his age.

Nate Carr 1983 graduate of ISU.  63 years old. Davidson head coach.

Kevin Dresser 1986 graduate of the University of Iowa.  60 years old. ISU head coach.

Pat Santoro 1989 graduate of Pitt.  Lehigh head coach.

Mark Manning 1985 graduate of University of Nebraska-Omaha.  Nebraska Lincoln head coach. - He also came up.

Roger Reina 1984 graduate of the University of Pennsylvania.  Current Penn head coach.

Mark Cody 1985 graduate of University of Missouri.  Head coach  Presbyterian College.

Since that post Smith and Borrelli have retired.  Penn announced a plan to transition from Reina to Valenti after this season.  I apparently had the wrong Nate Carr and I missed a bunch of others.

Roger Reina 1984 graduate of the University of Pennsylvania.  Current Penn head coach - plans to retire April 1 2025.

Kenny Monday 1984 graduate of OSU. 63 years old.  Current Morgan State head coach.

Mark Manning 1985 graduate of University of Nebraska-Omaha.  Nebraska Lincoln head coach. 

Mark Cody 1985 graduate of University of Missouri.  Head coach  Presbyterian College.

Kevin Dresser 1986 graduate of the University of Iowa.  62 years old. ISU head coach.

Tim Flynn 1987 graduate of PSU.  Current WVU head coach.

Rob Koll 1988 graduate of UNC Chapel Hill.  UNC head coach.

Glen Lanham 1988 graduate of OSU.  Duke head coach.

Pat Santoro 1989 graduate of Pitt.  Lehigh head coach.

Joel Greenlee 1989 graduate of UNI.  Ohio head coach

Larry Jones 1990 graduate of ASU.  58 years old.  ASU head coach.

Jay Weiss 1990 graduate of F&M.  Harvard head coach. 

Brian Smith 1990 graduate of Michigan State.  Head coach Missouri.

Tom Brands 1992 graduate of Iowa. 56 years old.  Iowa head coach.

Tom Ryan 1993 graduate of Iowa.  Ohio State head coach.

John Hangey 1993 graduate of Rider.  Rider head coach.

Sean Bormet 1994 graduate of Michigan.  Michigan head coach.

Brands isn't too old to coach at this level, though he may never win another national team title.  On the mat his teams have done very well and a change isn't justified.  Realistically he is unlikely to still be the coach 10 years from now.  Coaching at a place like Iowa or OSU is a high pressure experience and most still aren't doing this at his age.  He is currently 56. His predecessor, Zalesky was out in Iowa City at 46 years old.  Gable retired early at 49 and his predecessor, Kurdelmeier, moved to a different position at 40 years of age.  It is similar at OSU.  Smith retired at age 58 after last season.  His predecessor Joe Seay was only 52 when he found himself out of the job.  His predecessor Tommy Chesbro got the axe at 45 years old.  Myron Roderick had handed over the reigns to Chesbro when he was only 35.

Posted
On 12/30/2024 at 2:08 AM, AgaveMaria said:

Numbers would change if the years of 3, 5 and then 6 All Americans were changed to the current eight.

That graph is so deceptive. The vast majority of OSU's success was pre-1970s. Iowa has mostly dominated OSU since 1970. It reminds me of an article I read a couple days ago that listed the colleges with the most national titles in football. Minnesota, shockingly, came in with 6 NCAA football titles (they were ranked 10th overall, or something like that). They haven't won an NCAA title since 1960. The saddest part of that graph is the fact that at one time OU was a legitimate powerhouse in constant contention for national titles and now they are "bleh". 

Posted
1 hour ago, 666 said:

That graph is so deceptive. The vast majority of OSU's success was pre-1970s. Iowa has mostly dominated OSU since 1970. It reminds me of an article I read a couple days ago that listed the colleges with the most national titles in football. Minnesota, shockingly, came in with 6 NCAA football titles (they were ranked 10th overall, or something like that). They haven't won an NCAA title since 1960. The saddest part of that graph is the fact that at one time OU was a legitimate powerhouse in constant contention for national titles and now they are "bleh". 

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Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge

Posted

just an opinion:

1.) The Brands are true IOWA besides home bread Iowa Hawkeyes! They like giving the guys out west a shot and especially happy to develop the local state champs.  Getting away from the Pennsylvania, New Jersey powerhouses is a more risky/challenging evaluation of in coming talent. The portal lets them recharge where they lost in recruitment.

2.) The commits of the northeast high school wrestling programs are more staying  east since; Caels success and other Snyder/Gilman Penn State RTC move. influenced by facility proximity success money not in that order.

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