Which colleges will add men's wrestling now that Title IX's restored to its original (more gender-fair) legislative intent?

[TitleIX is ripe for reform]

     As the fairly recent article linked below helps show (and as some self-enriching, overreaching D.C. bureaucrats do not want you to discover), the legal climate at least seems to have great potential to improve for athletic directors and college administrators (etc.) who want to support college wrestling, even if women do not want to participate in it.   The U.S. Supreme Court (i.e. the "SCOTUS") recently began restoring interpretations of federal statutes [which Title IX, a noble but nowadays misinterpreted law, is] to what such laws actually say.  It's called "textualism".   This has already happened, in fact, because the U.S. Supreme Court  has (correctly) ruled that major laws are for the legislative branch to make, not the executive one.   Notice how Title IX does NOT say that there should be a gender quota which hurts men's sports teams (often without even helping women's programs)?   Here's what Title IX, congressionally enacted in 1972, actually says:

No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.

Anyhow, here's the abovementioned article on recent constitutional breakthroughs at the U.S. Supreme Court (i.e. the “SCOTUS”):

https://lawliberty.org/reclaiming-legislative-power-from-the-administrative-state

That said, which colleges & universities you think will likely be the first to reinstate wrestling now that Title IX has indirectly already been vastly limited, pursuant to actual congressional intent instead of bureaucratic greed and overreach?

Nevertheless, it seems wonderful having women's college wrestling grow and increasingly succeed.  But when schools can't attract enough women to wrestle in sufficient quantities, should men's college wrestling have to remain in the cemetery?   Fortunate when there's a men's team, it's easier to add a women's team later on.   Without the former, it's seemingly much tougher to add the latter though. 

Edited November 1, 2022 by TitleIX is ripe for reform
title clarification, and insertion of term "textualism"

[TexRef]

Not a single D1 school will add wrestling in the next 10 years minimum.  

[TitleIX is ripe for reform]

Here's a list of former NCAA & NJCAA teams in Texas where non-club wrestling teams presently do not exist:
 

Institution / State / Lost Spots on Teams / Division:

*North Texas State TX 27 NCAA Division I

*Richland College TX 27 NCAA I

*Southwest Texas State TX 27 NCAA I

*Southwestern University TX 27 NCAA I

*Texas A&M TX 27 NCAA I

*Texas Christian University TX 27 NCAA I

*Texas Tech TX 27 NCAA I

*University of Texas TX 27 NCAA I

*University of Texas at Arlington TX 27 NCAA I

*University of Texas-El Paso TX 27 NCAA I

*LeTourneau TX 27 NCAA III

*Amarillo Community College TX 27 NJCAA

*Eastfield Community College TX 27 NJCAA

*Trinity Valley Community TX 27 NJCAA

Meanwhile here's a list of dropped men's wrestling programs in Virginia:

Eastern Mennonite
Hampton
Hampden Sydney
James Madison
Liberty
Longwood University
Lynchburg College
Norfolk State
Old Dominion University
University of Richmond
Virginia Commonwealth
Virginia State
William & Mary

 

[RYou]

Unlike whimsical Executive Orders touting restrictive regulatory action issued by Obama and Biden, Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972 is legislative authority.  Anti-discrimination requirements in education are here to stay, legislatively (unless of course, Congress fails to reauthorize it at some point in the future).  What you will see cease are the often daffy interpretations published as Dear Colleague letters issues by DOE which holds to be enforceable statutory actions.  As for gender equality in sports, the current standards for determining the equality of sports opportunities at Cs and Us will stand until challenged by a school or individual. Gender identity in sports is the next big issue that will be brought before SCOTUS at some point.  Despite all of the wishers and wannabes, and administrative edicts, Section 195 of the Equality Act refers to sex, not gender identity. It is lawful to exclude males from female sports categories.  It is lawful to require a copy of a birth certificate to document and designate male or female sex.

[TitleIX is ripe for reform]

I think I agree with everything that you just wrote, other than perhaps the part about how anti-discrimination requirements in education are here to stay in the absence of Congressional de-authorization.   I'm not presently persuaded that the bar is that high to fixing the broken Title IX system and ridding it of discriminatory gender quotas.   We could be just an election away from executive orders that can help considerably.   Meanwhile, as you mentioned, there's the litigation route as well...

    As an encouraging sidenote, Chief Justice John Roberts is a former high school champion wrestler.    I bet he cares about the issue now that college wrestling has lost so much ground.   He wrestled in Indiana:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Roberts

Meanwhile a champion of textualism is now serving on the high court:  Neil Gorsuch.   

[TitleIX is ripe for reform]

Newsflash:

Wrestling is underway at the federal appellate level regarding how Title IX should be interpreted regarding gender quotas.   Here's a brand new update on the subject, with a Michigan focus.  

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2022/12/12/supreme-court-wont-hear-title-ix-case-college-sports/10880478002/

[Scouts Honor]

On 10/31/2022 at 8:58 PM, RYou said:

\ Despite all of the wishers and wannabes, and administrative edicts, Section 195 of the Equality Act refers to sex, not gender identity. It is lawful to exclude males from female sports categories.  It is lawful to require a copy of a birth certificate to document and designate male or female sex.

lets hope this becomes true

[Formally140]

Sigh, it amazes me how awkwardly and stubbornly people cling to being the angry chip on shoulder wrestling people. 
 

For a sport like wrestling to be added to a major university. Even if you get a looser interpretation of Title IX.. if you don’t approach adding a program it from presenting the equity aspect and women’s wrestling. You just tanked any chance of it succeeding in adding a wrestling team.

People can squawk and whine all they want. That’s the reality. Schalles put it perfect on his blog. Wrestling coaches need to stop acting like “playing politics” is something dirty. 

 

Besides a good chunk of the problems are wrestlings fault. Football and Basketball coaches became ADs principals and on the NCAA and state associations. Outside what are very clearly exceptions not the norm… Wrestling coaches stayed in their classroom and called everyone soft. 
 

Even if the court rules how you want.. it won’t do what you seem to think it will 

[TitleIX is ripe for reform]

Encouragingly enough, before Big 12 Commissioner Bob Bowlsby (a former wrestling coach from Iowa) retired earlier this year, he impressively managed to help keep wrestling a conference-sanctioned sport in the Big 12.   He achieved this despite having just 3 teams (IA St., Oklahoma and Ok. State)...plus Big 12 newcomer West Virginia.    Maybe West Va. U. was recruited to join the Big 12 in part to help keep wrestling a conference sanctioned sport.   It's an example of how small changes can make major differences.   Men's soccer isn't even sanctioned in the Big 12, to help put things in perspective.    Can you believe that?

Sure, we nevertheless lament that Commissioner Bowlsby didn't manage to get a Big 12 college wrestling team added in Texas.   But progress continues to be made at the NAIA, D2 and D3 levels in Texas in part because he helped keep wrestling strong in a neighboring Big 12 state (Oklahoma).   That also helped inspire neighboring Arkansas to make such dramatic progress these past 15 years.    (The Cowboys' 4x NCAA champion Pat Smith teamed up with insurance great Greg Hatcher in Arkansas.) 

    Anyow, Texas still lacks a D1 wrestling team (even as it had a few as recently as the 1980s) but hopefully that can change.  For the latest news on college wrestling in the Lone Star state:

http://www.Facebook.com/TexasCollegiateWrestling  

Meanwhile, happy retirement to Commissioner Bowlsby.   Thanks for having done what you could.   15 years ago, Texas had NO NAIA or NCAA college wrestling programs, and for either gender for that matter.   The same can be said of neighboring Arkansas.   College wrestling established valuable momentum in Texas and Arkansas during Commissioner Bowlsby's tenure heading up the Big 12.   Now if only more of us can help influence other organizations to help wrestling too...    

 

[TexRef]

Even if Texas had a Greg Hatcher type that wants to fund the college program for the first few years, I still don't think it would be enough to sway the powers to be at D1 school. 

UT recently had the opportunity to add a men's & women's program, but they declined. The money was raised, but they still said no. 

It would not surprise me if it was 20 years before a big D1 school in Texas adds a men's program. 

[poorwrestler]

In the 5 years when the Big Ten has added USC, UCLA, Oregon, Washington, Notre Dame, and Stanford… I hope they all have wrestling


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mspart]

I think it would be great to have UW Huskies and WSU Cougars to have wrestling again.   For UW, they dropped it in 1979 I believe.   I was a junior in HS then and I remember not believing it.   We had an older guy that graduated from my HS (and wrestled for UW) come back to the HS and be an asst coach.   I thought he was pretty cool.   I saw him a few years ago as his son was doing pretty well.   But his son was a jerk on and off the mat.   I went over to talk to his dad and it was apparent the apple did not fall far from the tree.   Lost any respect I had for him. 

But that's another story.   I'd love for WA to get some NCAA-1 wrestling going. 

mspart

[Ban Basketball]

On 10/31/2022 at 8:58 PM, RYou said:

Unlike whimsical Executive Orders touting restrictive regulatory action issued by Obama and Biden, Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972 is legislative authority.  Anti-discrimination requirements in education are here to stay, legislatively (unless of course, Congress fails to reauthorize it at some point in the future).  What you will see cease are the often daffy interpretations published as Dear Colleague letters issues by DOE which holds to be enforceable statutory actions.  As for gender equality in sports, the current standards for determining the equality of sports opportunities at Cs and Us will stand until challenged by a school or individual. Gender identity in sports is the next big issue that will be brought before SCOTUS at some point.  Despite all of the wishers and wannabes, and administrative edicts, Section 195 of the Equality Act refers to sex, not gender identity. It is lawful to exclude males from female sports categories.  It is lawful to require a copy of a birth certificate to document and designate male or female sex.

At least in enjoyment, gender identity has already been brought before them  in 2020 and it was a victory for us gender equality advocates. 

https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/supreme-court-rules-gender-identity-and-50917/

[Mike Parrish]

Come on, SJSU!

Bring back The Pit!

[ionel]

1 hour ago, poorwrestler said:

In the 5 years when the Big Ten has added USC, UCLA, Oregon, Washington, Notre Dame, and Stanford… I hope they all have wrestling


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'll take that bet.  Meet you over at BOARD BETS? 

[Idaho]

4 hours ago, Formally140 said:

Sigh, it amazes me how awkwardly and stubbornly people cling to being the angry chip on shoulder wrestling people. 
 

For a sport like wrestling to be added to a major university. Even if you get a looser interpretation of Title IX.. if you don’t approach adding a program it from presenting the equity aspect and women’s wrestling. You just tanked any chance of it succeeding in adding a wrestling team.

People can squawk and whine all they want. That’s the reality. Schalles put it perfect on his blog. Wrestling coaches need to stop acting like “playing politics” is something dirty. 

 

Besides a good chunk of the problems are wrestlings fault. Football and Basketball coaches became ADs principals and on the NCAA and state associations. Outside what are very clearly exceptions not the norm… Wrestling coaches stayed in their classroom and called everyone soft. 
 

Even if the court rules how you want.. it won’t do what you seem to think it will 

In a recent conversation with a D1 coach about adding women's wrestling (they already have mens) , he said it would be difficult because there are more women's teams at the school now than men's teams and are looking to add another mens sport. It would be interesting to see what schools actually have erred on the side of women's sports recently creating the need to either cut a women's program or add a mens program. At Auburn they currently have 17 sports - 8 mens and 9 women's - however there are about 30 more men participating overall.  All that to say that there are situations that are coming about where adding just a mens team would be feasible in light of Title IX. 

[Idaho]

46 minutes ago, Ban Basketball said:

At least in enjoyment, gender identity has already been brought before them  in 2020 and it was a victory for us gender equality advocates. 

https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/supreme-court-rules-gender-identity-and-50917/

So you gender equality advocates are actually against biological female sports? 

[Ban Basketball]

10 minutes ago, Idaho said:

So you gender equality advocates are actually against biological female sports? 

Not a big fan of womens' sports,  but,  like Gable,  of course I support them.

I'm primarily just speaking to employment discrimination.  In that regard,  yes, I oppose discrimination of all sorts. 

[Formally140]

31 minutes ago, Idaho said:

In a recent conversation with a D1 coach about adding women's wrestling (they already have mens) , he said it would be difficult because there are more women's teams at the school now than men's teams and are looking to add another mens sport. It would be interesting to see what schools actually have erred on the side of women's sports recently creating the need to either cut a women's program or add a mens program. At Auburn they currently have 17 sports - 8 mens and 9 women's - however there are about 30 more men participating overall.  All that to say that there are situations that are coming about where adding just a mens team would be feasible in light of Title IX. 

I understand and agree 

Also,

The way to approach/go after Title IX is actually pushing for “more” support for the women’s teams. Meaning. What often happens is the girls teams get the “scholarship” counts. But then no real support or funding. At UTC several girls teams had ratty or old gear and other issues but admin was covered by the fact that the girls were on scholarship 

So the thing to actually push for is changing the emphasis from “scholarship counts” to actually supporting women’s teams even if that means there’s less total teams 

Edit: so that it makes it easier to argue for men’s teams and it’s not “just” about scholarship counts

Edited December 13, 2022 by Formally140

[TitleIX is ripe for reform]

On 12/12/2022 at 4:21 PM, TexRef said:

UT recently had the opportunity to add a men's & women's program, but they declined. The money was raised, but they still said no. 

Really?    Are you sure the money raised was specifically allocated for wrestling?   I've read that the U. of Texas rakes in the dough on athletics, but also spends slightly more than that amount on athletics.  There may be some fuzzy math involved but I wasn't aware that wrestling funds had been raised in significant quantities there.   I'm also not tuned into that school much, admittedly.  Thanks for any insights, TexRef...      

Edited December 14, 2022 by TitleIX is ripe for reform

[TexRef]

10 hours ago, TitleIX is ripe for reform said:

Really?    Are you sure the money raised was specifically allocated for wrestling?   I've read that the U. of Texas rakes in the dough on athletics, but also spends slightly more than that amount on athletics.  There may be some fuzzy math involved but I wasn't aware that wrestling funds had been raised in significant quantities there.   I'm also not tuned into that school much, admittedly.  Thanks for any insights, TexRef...      

Yes. It was proposed for a men's program and UT asked if there could be more raised for a women's program? Of course the answer was "YES!" Then UT came back and said nah, not interested. 

In Texas it is King Football and Prince Basketball and until we can change that thought process, we will not have a big D1 program in Texas. 

[Formally140]

33 minutes ago, TexRef said:

Yes. It was proposed for a men's program and UT asked if there could be more raised for a women's program? Of course the answer was "YES!" Then UT came back and said nah, not interested. 

In Texas it is King Football and Prince Basketball and until we can change that thought process, we will not have a big D1 program in Texas. 

Honestly, given everything I’ve seen and been told about Texas athletics. It’ll be easier to add just a DI women’s program.

 

and that sucks, UT is like Ohio State, the money is there

[TexRef]

7 hours ago, Formally140 said:

Honestly, given everything I’ve seen and been told about Texas athletics. It’ll be easier to add just a DI women’s program.

 

and that sucks, UT is like Ohio State, the money is there

The market is flooded for women's college wrestling. If a few more D1 teams add a women's program and that may be the death of D3 women's wrestling. About half of the women's teams now have less than 20 athletes, but schools keep adding it.  

[Mike Parrish]

2 minutes ago, TexRef said:

The market is flooded for women's college wrestling. If a few more D1 teams add a women's program and that may be the death of D3 women's wrestling. About half of the women's teams now have less than 20 athletes, but schools keep adding it.  

With the growth of girls wrestling at the high school level, I think we could still double the number of women's collegiate programs and still have full rosters.

[Formally140]

32 minutes ago, TexRef said:

The market is flooded for women's college wrestling. If a few more D1 teams add a women's program and that may be the death of D3 women's wrestling. About half of the women's teams now have less than 20 athletes, but schools keep adding it.  

Illinois finally added it, kicking and screaming, but finally. But they should have made it a fall or spring sport so more coaches could do both