Ben Askren - If you are high schooler who wants to go to Iowa, don't

[fishbane]

28 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills that we're talking about Zach Glazier as a person who was entitled to a starting spot.  We're talking like they recruited over Drake Ayala. 

Would you have thought the same thing if we were discussing Jessie Whitmer after his redshirt junior year entering his 5th year?

[VakAttack]

23 minutes ago, fishbane said:

Would you have thought the same thing if we were discussing Jessie Whitmer after his redshirt junior year entering his 5th year?

I would never have known.  The hypothetical doesn't make sense, since if it happened I wouldn't know who Whitmer was.  If in this hypothetical Whitmer goes and wins a title at SDSU, then that would be Iowa's loss.  That's the gamble you take when you bring someone in.  But the Whitmer situation is extremely rare, and you can't build your team counting on exceptions.

[Idaho]

4 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

The Athletic interviewed a number of the collectives and they said they work directly with the coaching staffs (this was in reference to football) to make sure they are filling the team's needs.

School collectives is  a pool of fundraising from a wide group of people/businesses that is still independent of the school. Coaches can give input and work with the collective, like you said to pinpoint needs. However, coaches and AD's can't negotiate any deals. There seems to always have to be a middleman to break up the direct involvment. This might be where decreased NIL came from involving DT - in the collective payouts. There are also the wealthy boosters that directly fund an NIL.... for example, a guy named Bob really wants a guy to come to his school, he can directly go to that wrestler and offer 500k ....then, also for example, the coach can say, I don't have anything to do with that, he is free to do as he wants.... but we all know that there were discussion behind the scenes of who is going to be offered that 500k. It won't be long before coaches can also be the negotiators of all of this anyway. Look how far this has come in a short time. 

[Maxwell Smart]

This post generated so much great material and absolutely must read rebuttal.  The Hawkeyes will have to go to the portal every year. It'll be interesting to see how it all works out.

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

6 minutes ago, Maxwell Smart said:

This post generated so much great material and absolutely must read rebuttal.  The Hawkeyes will have to go to the portal every year. It'll be interesting to see how it all works out.

I mean they should continue to buy AAs as long as Bob funds it and they fail to recruit top tier talent out of high school. 

[1032004]

6 hours ago, BAC said:

  Is that what college wrestlers at Iowa (and maybe other schools) should now expect, every year?  That no matter how well they do, during the offseason Iowa is going to do a nationwide search to see if they can purchase the skills of someone better than you, and send you packing?  Is that what's best for Iowa, best for the sport?

I'm not sure if it's "what's best," but yeah, I would say that this is pretty much true for any school since the creation of the transfer portal.   Again, I acknowledge that what Iowa did this offseason is "worse," but I don't think it has anything to do with Glazier, and moreso the fact that they are now poaching guys that aren't even in the portal.

[boconnell]

If schools were using this to recruit over athletes while athletes were stuck in place, then it would be bad.  But there is just as much or more of athletes using the portal to get theirs.  If athletes don't owe anything to the schools that developed them and they can look out for their own interests, then I see no reason why schools owe loyalty to the athletes they recruited rather than looking out for the school's best interest.  It is unadulterated free agency, and the athletes are getting more money, more control, and more choice then they ever got before.  It might be ugly, but it's definitely not unfair to athletes no matter how many get recruited over.

[fishbane]

24 minutes ago, boconnell said:

If schools were using this to recruit over athletes while athletes were stuck in place, then it would be bad.  But there is just as much or more of athletes using the portal to get theirs.  If athletes don't owe anything to the schools that developed them and they can look out for their own interests, then I see no reason why schools owe loyalty to the athletes they recruited rather than looking out for the school's best interest.  It is unadulterated free agency, and the athletes are getting more money, more control, and more choice then they ever got before.  It might be ugly, but it's definitely not unfair to athletes no matter how many get recruited over.

It's still pretty bad.  This isn't like when Sanderson/PSU recruited Nick Nevills over an already committed Thomas Haines.  That happened before either had entered their senior year of high school.  It isn't even comparable to when Max Dean transferred in to displace returning AA Michael Beard.  That was announced in May after the season.  Here a guy was brought in at a cost of $500k to replace a top 10 returning senior the day before classes start.  It's crazy.  

You're all but stuck in that situation.  In a week you have to apply, get accepted, figure out financial aid, enroll, and move across the country. He might have to break a lease and be on the hook for rent back in Iowa.  I'm sure the 5 heading out of Iowa weren't seeing much of the benefits of more money, more control, or more choice last week.  Options were likely limited and it may have cost them thousands of dollars to pull off their moves.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

17 hours ago, 1032004 said:

So is it true that coaches are supposed to have no involvement whatsoever in NIL?  I think even FRL has made comments about Taylor “not wanting to go crazy with NIL” or something to that effect

I don't think coaches are supposed to have direct involvement with NIL, but it is still The Wild West out there.  I have been taking it that Taylor asked his boosters to support the RTC at a greater level than NIL.

[Mr. PeanutButter]

6 hours ago, fishbane said:

It's still pretty bad.  This isn't like when Sanderson/PSU recruited Nick Nevills over an already committed Thomas Haines.  That happened before either had entered their senior year of high school.  It isn't even comparable to when Max Dean transferred in to displace returning AA Michael Beard.  That was announced in May after the season.  Here a guy was brought in at a cost of $500k to replace a top 10 returning senior the day before classes start.  It's crazy.  

You're all but stuck in that situation.  In a week you have to apply, get accepted, figure out financial aid, enroll, and move across the country. He might have to break a lease and be on the hook for rent back in Iowa.  I'm sure the 5 heading out of Iowa weren't seeing much of the benefits of more money, more control, or more choice last week.  Options were likely limited and it may have cost them thousands of dollars to pull off their moves.

Stop with the $500k. It's not real. Don't really have any disagreement with the rest of your post other than birds online were saying Buchanon was allegedly in the room for several weeks before the transfer was announced. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

22 minutes ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

Stop with the $500k. It's not real. Don't really have any disagreement with the rest of your post other than birds online were saying Buchanon was allegedly in the room for several weeks before the transfer was announced. 

A freakin men.

$500k is what a football player at a Group of 5 school gets to transfer to a Power 5 school. But people on here want to believe there are multiple wrestlers who have never won a title getting that or more.

[fishbane]

38 minutes ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

Stop with the $500k. It's not real. Don't really have any disagreement with the rest of your post other than birds online were saying Buchanon was allegedly in the room for several weeks before the transfer was announced. 

Maybe not $500k but it needs to be pretty significant to make these moves happen at this time.  To make any sense for someone on a full scholarship to transfer at this juncture the offer would have to be at least $100k. Tuition room and board is nearly $50k for an out of state student at Iowa and taxes would be owed on the $100k.  There are probably no athletic scholarship dollars floating around unused 1-3 weeks before classes start, so tuition room and board is coming out of that $100k.  After taxes and moving expenses that's likely under $25k net in pocket vs remaining on a full scholarship at your current institution.

Edited September 5 by fishbane

[boconnell]

6 hours ago, fishbane said:

It's still pretty bad.  This isn't like when Sanderson/PSU recruited Nick Nevills over an already committed Thomas Haines.  That happened before either had entered their senior year of high school.  It isn't even comparable to when Max Dean transferred in to displace returning AA Michael Beard.  That was announced in May after the season.  Here a guy was brought in at a cost of $500k to replace a top 10 returning senior the day before classes start.  It's crazy.  

You're all but stuck in that situation.  In a week you have to apply, get accepted, figure out financial aid, enroll, and move across the country. He might have to break a lease and be on the hook for rent back in Iowa.  I'm sure the 5 heading out of Iowa weren't seeing much of the benefits of more money, more control, or more choice last week.  Options were likely limited and it may have cost them thousands of dollars to pull off their moves.

Do you think athletes should have the freedom to move and the freedom to earn?  The system is heavily slanted to the athletes benefit (as opposed to the past).  The fact that a few guys lose starting jobs while retaining scholarships does not change that.  

[Wrestleknownothing]

15 minutes ago, boconnell said:

Do you think athletes should have the freedom to move and the freedom to earn?  The system is heavily slanted to the athletes benefit (as opposed to the past).  The fact that a few guys lose starting jobs while retaining scholarships does not change that.  

Bo knows transfers

[BloodRound]

1 hour ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

Stop with the $500k. It's not real. Don't really have any disagreement with the rest of your post other than birds online were saying Buchanon was allegedly in the room for several weeks before the transfer was announced. 

Birds? I'm personally waiting for a minnow to post some receipts for this figure.

[1032004]

2 hours ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

Stop with the $500k. It's not real. Don't really have any disagreement with the rest of your post other than birds online were saying Buchanon was allegedly in the room for several weeks before the transfer was announced. 

Better tell the owner of this site it’s not real

 

Edited September 5 by 1032004

[JeanGuy]

2 hours ago, boconnell said:

Do you think athletes should have the freedom to move and the freedom to earn?  The system is heavily slanted to the athletes benefit (as opposed to the past).  The fact that a few guys lose starting jobs while retaining scholarships does not change that.  

I am in a weird spot with this. I thought that the old rules were so restrictive and harmed the athlete especially in lieu of a coach's ability to go to different schools on a whim. Where we are now has really become untenable. Players coming and going multiple times in a career. This can't be good for sport.

I would like to see the athletes get one free transfer. After that there has to be a penalty. Coaches need to be able to know how to build their rosters.

NIL needs to be reined in and there be actual NIL work associated with any pay. If a guy makes a deal with Dave's Chevrolet or Nike great. I don't want some murky transfer of money to come to State University to play soccer. The NCAA seems to have really dropped the ball here with their own rules.

I can only speak for myself but all of this as currently being executed is driving me away from college athletics.

[fishbane]

1 hour ago, boconnell said:

Do you think athletes should have the freedom to move and the freedom to earn?  The system is heavily slanted to the athletes benefit (as opposed to the past).  The fact that a few guys lose starting jobs while retaining scholarships does not change that.  

I agree that athletes should have the freedom to move and earn money off their name image and likeness.  Payments made for transfers like this, though under the rules that allow for NIL earnings, are not that.  They are direct compensation for joining the team, but I don't have much issue with that as I think colleges should be able to pay athletes directly.  I suspect Askren feels similarly and none of that changes his criticism.

Employment by and large is at will in the US.  Employees are free to quit and employers can terminate an employee at any time for any reason.  Often times employers will try and build a family culture at a company, yet when redundancies come team building, family, and culture rarely comes up.  Some employers will notify employees in advance to give them time to transition and/or a severance package.  Other places will notify you via an email to you work email that they've already deactivated, so you find out when your badge doesn't work in the morning.  Some companies promote from within when there is a management opening.  Others will overlook promoting a hardworking over performing employee to recruit a high priced replacement that knows nothing of the company culture.  Askren's advice regarding Iowa is similar to advice that I'd give anyone contemplating working for a employer that has a reputation of being demanding and treating employees as expendable at a moment's notice - do it for the right price and low expectations. 

The way these guys got replaced right before the semester started is closer to a turn your badge off redundancy.  I am sure they don't mention that to recruits on the way in.  "If you make the starting lineup and don't place at NCAAs we may bring in a top 3 guy for $500 large to replace you after the bursar has cashed your tuition check for the semester."  It kind of undermines the talk of culture and family and having all the wrestlers over for Thanksgiving.  What kind of message does it send to any wrestler that might consider going to Iowa as a walk on that's not expected to start when a success story like Glazier who did the right things, overachieved, worked his way into the starting lineup, and achieved a top 10 ranking gets replaced like this?  At least 4 other guys received the message. Do you think these 7 guys (5 outbound and Teemer and Buchanan) are showing up to some reunion like the one Askren described 20 years from now?

If a successful program in a non-revenue sport has a transfer budget of over $1MM/year to bring in players then financial fair play rules are likely needed to maintain the competitive landscape we have now, which isn't that competitive.  The NCAA should also consider a transfer window that is aligned with its members educational mission.  Only transfers that take place within the window would be eligible to compete for the new school the next term.  Having guys switching teams and moving across the country the first week of classes seems incompatible with an educational mission. 

[ionel]

3 hours ago, boconnell said:

Do you think athletes should have the freedom to move and the freedom to earn?  The system is heavily slanted to the athletes benefit (as opposed to the past).  The fact that a few guys lose starting jobs while retaining scholarships does not change that.  

When you say "athletes" what do you mean?  Should I be able to switch pickleball clubs or cycling teams anytime i want?  Well probably so since I'm not paid but am paying to be part of the team/club.  What about pro athletes, should they be able to switch teams anytime they want?  And what does it mean to be a "pro?"  But maybe you are asking about student athletes.  Which brings up the  question of are they athletes on the team because they are students or students in the school simply because they are athletes?  And doesn't the same apply to high school?  Why do some states prevent HS kids from collecting on their NIL?  Is this a SCOTUS issue?  And what about middle school, grade school and 5 yr old park district athletes?  In this day and age of youtube & tictok everyone has NIL correct? 

Edited September 5 by ionel

[MPhillips]

2 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Better tell the owner of this site it’s not real

Just like climate change...

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

12 hours ago, fishbane said:

It's still pretty bad.  This isn't like when Sanderson/PSU recruited Nick Nevills over an already committed Thomas Haines.  That happened before either had entered their senior year of high school.  It isn't even comparable to when Max Dean transferred in to displace returning AA Michael Beard.  That was announced in May after the season.  Here a guy was brought in at a cost of $500k to replace a top 10 returning senior the day before classes start.  It's crazy.  

You're all but stuck in that situation.  In a week you have to apply, get accepted, figure out financial aid, enroll, and move across the country. He might have to break a lease and be on the hook for rent back in Iowa.  I'm sure the 5 heading out of Iowa weren't seeing much of the benefits of more money, more control, or more choice last week.  Options were likely limited and it may have cost them thousands of dollars to pull off their moves.

Not to mention Glazier effectively getting "cut" means he's probably getting 0 NIL dollars.

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

6 hours ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

Stop with the $500k. It's not real. Don't really have any disagreement with the rest of your post other than birds online were saying Buchanon was allegedly in the room for several weeks before the transfer was announced. 

How would you know the $500,000 is wrong without knowing the actual figure though?  Do you know the actual figure?  If not, how can you be sure $500,000 is absolutely wrong?

[ionel]

1 hour ago, MPhillips said:

Just like climate change...

... 🌧 🌩 

[1032004]

15 hours ago, fishbane said:

It's still pretty bad.  This isn't like when Sanderson/PSU recruited Nick Nevills over an already committed Thomas Haines.  That happened before either had entered their senior year of high school.  It isn't even comparable to when Max Dean transferred in to displace returning AA Michael Beard.  That was announced in May after the season.  Here a guy was brought in at a cost of $500k to replace a top 10 returning senior the day before classes start.  It's crazy.  

You're all but stuck in that situation.  In a week you have to apply, get accepted, figure out financial aid, enroll, and move across the country. He might have to break a lease and be on the hook for rent back in Iowa.  I'm sure the 5 heading out of Iowa weren't seeing much of the benefits of more money, more control, or more choice last week.  Options were likely limited and it may have cost them thousands of dollars to pull off their moves.

There are a lot of unknowns about the financials of Glazier.

Maybe he was getting nothing from Iowa so it wasn’t a hard decision to leave.

Maybe he was at least getting free rent from Nicolls so he didn’t have to worry about the lease breaking scenario.

Maybe he got a good offer from SDSU to offset some, all or more than he was losing at Iowa.

 

[Mr. PeanutButter]

4 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

How would you know the $500,000 is wrong without knowing the actual figure though?  Do you know the actual figure?  If not, how can you be sure $500,000 is absolutely wrong?

You're just going to have to trust me bro. Don't worry, it's a safe bet! I spoke with someone, who I trust deeply, who claims to have spoken with Buchanon