Olympic Boxing Controversy

[PortaJohn]

20 minutes ago, skandar said:

Holy shit you’re stupid. Do the world a favor 

Promoting suicide?  Classy.  Hey @BobDole @Husker_Du...Is this tolerated? 

[MPhillips]

[1032004]

15 hours ago, cowcards said:

Bernard has this one right. She has never had any issues with testing before or after the one match with a Russian where they won’t say anything about the “test” they ran to besides it wasn’t testosterone. The testing organization, whose head is Russian, is so corrupt that the IOC banned them and is running the boxing tournament themselves. 

It shouldn’t be getting any more press because it’s completely false.

Seems odd that the IBA in their statement claims the DQ was a result of tests at both 2022 and 2023 worlds, but she was allowed to compete in the early rounds of the 2023 tournament and no action was taken on her silver medal in 2022.

[cowcards]

42 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Seems odd that the IBA in their statement claims the DQ was a result of tests at both 2022 and 2023 worlds, but she was allowed to compete in the early rounds of the 2023 tournament and no action was taken on her silver medal in 2022.

Almost like they are just making things up as they go along knowing few will fact check and just spread any misinformation they see. Odd indeed. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

3 minutes ago, cowcards said:

Almost like they are just making things up as they go along knowing few will fact check and just spread any misinformation they see. Odd indeed. 

And to clown things up even further, the IBA announced they are giving the Italian boxer a bonus of $50k.

So you get nothing for winning, $50k for quitting. They must owe me $100k for not even trying.

[PortaJohn]

45 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

And to clown things up even further, the IBA announced they are giving the Italian boxer a bonus of $50k.

So you get nothing for winning, $50k for quitting. They must owe me $100k for not even trying.

Off topic but which thread did you post how Azamat got the 1 seed at 86kg?  Ionel put me on blast for not keeping up with my class work.  Apologies professor 

[1032004]

49 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

And to clown things up even further, the IBA announced they are giving the Italian boxer a bonus of $50k.

So you get nothing for winning, $50k for quitting. They must owe me $100k for not even trying.

They’ll probably give the Hungarian even more then if she loses

 

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

15 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

Off topic but which thread did you post how Azamat got the 1 seed at 86kg?  Ionel put me on blast for not keeping up with my class work.  Apologies professor 

Boy, I spew a lot of shit in a lot of places. It is hard for me to keep up with what and where.

But I imagine it was my typical screed against the ranking events being used as the seeding criteria, making showing up all that matters. But the hypocrisy is that the people in charge of UWW only really care about having tournaments in their home countries. So they are often in a single time zone. That time zone makes it impractical for anyone traveling west to east (anyone in the western hemisphere) to attend once, never mind three or four times. The net result is that seeding is a joke. Combine that with the random draw for the majority and seeding is also meaningless.

Now, while we are off topic, want to talk swimming? I have some thoughts on the 1500 heats.

Edited August 3 by Wrestleknownothing

[PortaJohn]

8 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Boy, I spew a lot of shit in a lot of places. It is hard for me to keep up with what and where.

But I imagine it was my typical screed against the ranking events being used as the seeding criteria, making showing up all that matters. But the hypocrisy is that the people in charge of UWW only really care about having tournaments in their home countries. So they are often in a single time zone. That time zone makes it impractical for anyone traveling west to east (anyone in the western hemisphere) to attend once, never mind three or four times. The net result is that seeding is a joke. Combine that with the random draw for the majority and seeding is also meaningless.

Now, while we are off topic, want to talk swimming? I have some thoughts on the 1500 heats.

Heck yeah!  It's Olympic season.  Head to head in their primes.  Phelps vs Marchand.  What's the breakdown per event?

[Wrestleknownothing]

5 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

Heck yeah!  It's Olympic season.  Head to head in their primes.  Phelps vs Marchand.  What's the breakdown per event?

It is wild that Phelps is the greatest of all time even though he is not even the fastest of all time.

[PortaJohn]

9 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

It is wild that Phelps is the greatest of all time even though he is not even the fastest of all time.

What are the chances Marchand one day breaks the 4min barrier in the 400IM?

Edited August 3 by PortaJohn

[Voice of the Quakers]

Back on topic, for better or worse.

This article is worth your time.

https://nypost.com/2024/08/02/opinion/issue-of-olympic-boxer-imane-khalif-is-complex-but-still-one-of-fairness/

 

[PortaJohn]

40 minutes ago, Voice of the Quakers said:

Back on topic, for better or worse.

This article is worth your time.

https://nypost.com/2024/08/02/opinion/issue-of-olympic-boxer-imane-khalif-is-complex-but-still-one-of-fairness/

 

Getting back on topic what I've been able to piece together on Imane is that she was born female & Algeria has strict or nonexistent transgender laws.  How sporting agencies reconcile rare genetic mutations like Swyer syndrome is hard to answer.  I'd lean to letting an athlete, in this case Imane, compete.  

Haven't read too much into the new title IX revisions but if it is true that it's as simple as just identifying as female to participate in sports then this should be reversed immediately.  

Edited August 3 by PortaJohn

[Antitroll2828]

For the guy telling people to kill themselves - lead by example and  jump first we promise we ll follow you 

 

also the women in question was born with both sets of genitals(outside woman , inside man)  and both set of chromosomes, she is female by definition (of Algeria standards atleast ) but has male organs internally that produce way higher levels of testosterone then the average female ..i personally don’t have an issue with her being a called a woman but if the extra testosterone is giving her an advantage then it’s pretty obvious she shouldn’t be in the Olympics , this may not be fair to the Algerian who worked hard to get here but that’s just life 

also agree with the poster who mentioned how members of society are paid to sow division in any opportunities that present themselves and they ve been working overtime with this situation 

now back to that punk ass bitch calling people hitler , sir you need help , please talk to a psychiatrist or a religious figure bc you have some real serious things going on in your head .. you should reflect on the fact you have extreme hatred and wish death on strangers and people you ve never met .. that’s honestly more hate and anger then any run of the mill “racist” or “bigot” even has

[Ched64]

On 8/2/2024 at 7:11 AM, Wrestleknownothing said:

No

Here is an interesting article on the matter that popped up this am.  Not saying it is the definitive word on the matter but struck me as a calm, clear discussion of the matter at hand.

https://quillette.com/2024/08/03/xy-athletes-in-womens-olympic-boxing-paris-2024-controversy-explained-khelif-yu-ting/

 

 

 

[BuckyBadger]

On 8/1/2024 at 2:48 PM, uncle bernard said:

Biological advantage is the entire basis of athletic competition. Being a woman with high testosterone is the same type of advantage as being a basketball player who is 7'0. It's rare and allows you to excel.

As more is coming out about this case,  if the competitors are DSD it’s possible that it’s not simply higher levels of testosterone, but one where they are born with internal reproductive organs of both sexes.

I don’t know if that’s the case here, but if so, it’s not the case of a biological female simply producing higher levels of testosterone. And not comparable to a basketball player that is 7 ft.
 

I do an acknowledge the nuance and gray area of this situation as opposed to a Lia Thomas example. However, in a sport like boxing the stakes are much higher in the sense that someone with male strength (or even in between) fighting a woman is playing with fire.

If these competitors are born with both male and female reproductive organs, I think it’s pretty clear they should not be in the ring with biological females.

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

On 8/3/2024 at 8:44 AM, PortaJohn said:

What are the chances Marchand one day breaks the 4min barrier in the 400IM?

Almost forgot about this one.

Well, if you look at this graph one way it looks like 4:00 is kind of an asymptote.

But then, 4:10 was looking like an asymptote from 1989 to 2003, and then it wasn't. Same kinda goes for 4:20 at one point.

So I will say yes, there will be improvements in technique (the freestyle stroke has evolved since I swam) and technology (sport science has made leaps and bounds since I swam) such that he (or someone) does break 4:00. There could even be rule changes (see backstroke flip turns) that cause a further drop.

[Old Dirty]

Italians whine and cry victim all the time.  The fact that the Italian girl quit has nothing to do with chromosomes or gametes

[Sheerstress]

I am completely against allowing transgender women like Lia Thomas, who went  through male puberty and then later transitioned, to compete in women’s sports. 

 

But in the case of Khelif, it appears that she was BORN with these differences.  She was identified as a girl as birth in the usual manner, and then grew up accordingly.  It wasn’t until years later, that supposedly the IBA had her tested, and stated that she was genotypically male (XY), and had naturally elevated testosterone levels. This is still somewhat controversial, as the results have never been made public, and the Russian-run IBA has since been stripped of its recognition as a sports governing body by the IOC.

 

Unlike transgender athletes like Thomas or Fallon Fox, Khelif never went through any type of transitioning.  It would have almost certainly been completely illegal in her Muslim country of Algeria. 

 

She probably falls into a category of people that are genotypically male but phenotypically female or something in between, often referred to as Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome.  This was also the case with track athletes Caster Semenya and Stella Walsh, who both competed in the Olympics as women. 

 

However, similar to Fallon Fox, who competed in MMA, the effect of Khelif’s hormonal differences are much more physically damaging to the opponent in a combat sport such as boxing, as was seen recently in the match against Carini of Italy.

 

This is causing an explosive debate to say the least.  Another twist in the issue of who should be allowed to compete as women in sporting events.

[lisa morales]

So, apparently Amit Elor passed the gender test.  I haven't heard otherwise.

[peanut]

Khelif beat Liu from China for the gold, which prevented China from winning the gold medal count. Instead, the US and China tied with 40 golds each, with the US winning the overall medal count. USA! USA! USA! USA!

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

2 minutes ago, peanut said:

Khelif beat Liu from China for the gold, which prevented China from winning the gold medal count. Instead, the US and China tied with 40 golds each, with the US winning the overall medal count. USA! USA! USA! USA!

Until China adds Hong Kong and Taiwan’s 4 golds and claims victory. It’s coming. 

[DocBB]

1 hour ago, peanut said:

Khelif beat Liu from China for the gold, which prevented China from winning the gold medal count. Instead, the US and China tied with 40 golds each, with the US winning the overall medal count. USA! USA! USA! USA!

I mean there are a lot of people to blame for the USA not winning outright including USA Men's Wrestling as a whole and that high jumper who decided not to share the gold medal and instead listen a jump off and the IOC in general who allowed about 20+ Chinese swimmers to compete despite failing doping tests.. Tying with China is a loss to me...

Edited August 11 by DocBB

[wrestle87]

On 8/8/2024 at 2:09 PM, Sheerstress said:

I am completely against allowing transgender women like Lia Thomas, who went  through male puberty and then later transitioned, to compete in women’s sports. 

 

But in the case of Khelif, it appears that she was BORN with these differences.  She was identified as a girl as birth in the usual manner, and then grew up accordingly.  It wasn’t until years later, that supposedly the IBA had her tested, and stated that she was genotypically male (XY), and had naturally elevated testosterone levels. This is still somewhat controversial, as the results have never been made public, and the Russian-run IBA has since been stripped of its recognition as a sports governing body by the IOC.

 

Unlike transgender athletes like Thomas or Fallon Fox, Khelif never went through any type of transitioning.  It would have almost certainly been completely illegal in her Muslim country of Algeria. 

 

She probably falls into a category of people that are genotypically male but phenotypically female or something in between, often referred to as Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome.  This was also the case with track athletes Caster Semenya and Stella Walsh, who both competed in the Olympics as women. 

 

However, similar to Fallon Fox, who competed in MMA, the effect of Khelif’s hormonal differences are much more physically damaging to the opponent in a combat sport such as boxing, as was seen recently in the match against Carini of Italy.

 

This is causing an explosive debate to say the least.  Another twist in the issue of who should be allowed to compete as women in sporting events.

Wasn’t there a similar situation a few cycles back with a sprinter from South Africa who had something going on at a chromosomal level?

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 hour ago, wrestle87 said:

Wasn’t there a similar situation a few cycles back with a sprinter from South Africa who had something going on at a chromosomal level?

The runner from SA was intergender. I believe she sued and won after the ioc attempted to keep her out.