"Cowboy Screw Job"

[nhs67]

13 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Cael was off to a good start at ISU in his first 2 years before Cunningham joined the staff.

It isn't my opinion.  It is what they have both said over and over and over.

[NM1965]

11 hours ago, wrestle87 said:

Someone will take him onboard no problem.  He’s a big enough name for a tier 1B team, and he did some serious development at UNC.  Someone will be interested.  Maybe he can be the next head coach at stanford.

The move is starting to look worse and worse for him though.

I'd love him to be the coach at OU. That would be an interesting move, getting jilted by OSU so he went to their rivals. He's a fine wrestling coach as well, OU would improve under his coaching, I have no doubt. No offense to Kish, but OU didn't show me much last year, and if there was improvement it was glacial. 

[NM1965]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

Cael was off to a good start at ISU in his first 2 years before Cunningham joined the staff.

I have no doubt whatsoever that if Cael had stayed at ISU instead of moving to PSU that ISU would have won 11 out of the last 13 NCAA team titles. ISU sure screwed the pooch letting him get away. 

[billyhoyle]

2 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Cael and DT aren't nearly as successful without Cunningham and all the top recruits know that.

Cael will be much better off if DT stays and Cunningham leaves than if DT leaves and Cunningham stays.  

 

1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

It isn't my opinion.  It is what they have both said over and over and over.

Of course they say this. That doesn't mean it's true. 

Edited May 7 by billyhoyle

[peanut]

22 minutes ago, NM1965 said:

I have no doubt whatsoever that if Cael had stayed at ISU instead of moving to PSU that ISU would have won 11 out of the last 13 NCAA team titles. ISU sure screwed the pooch letting him get away. 

Maybe, but I'm not sure about that. I remember reading a long time ago that Cael thought it was tough recruiting in Iowa--in part because the Hawkeyes were so popular. Meanwhile, he liked PA's output of All Americans, and thought a better deal would be being the top program in PA. It's not certain Cael could have landed as many elite recruits as the Iowa State coach. His PA-native champs include Haines, Starocci, Cenzo, Nolf, Retherford, Megaludis, Wright, and Ruth. That's a lot of in-state fire power.

Edited May 7 by peanut

[Ched64]

29 minutes ago, peanut said:

Maybe, but I'm not sure about that. I remember reading a long time ago that Cael thought it was tough recruiting in Iowa--in part because the Hawkeyes were so popular. Meanwhile, he liked PA's output of All Americans, and thought a better deal would be being the top program in PA. It's not certain Cael could have landed as many elite recruits as the Iowa State coach. His PA-native champs include Haines, Starocci, Cenzo, Nolf, Retherford, Megaludis, Wright, and Ruth. That's a lot of in-state fire power.

Great observation…he saw PA kids outperforming all over the country yet their flagship university wasn’t getting them…makes a lot of sense and speaks to Cael’s acumen…I have always liked how he gets the most out of his kids…John Smith in recent years, not so much.

[NM1965]

40 minutes ago, peanut said:

Maybe, but I'm not sure about that. I remember reading a long time ago that Cael thought it was tough recruiting in Iowa--in part because the Hawkeyes were so popular. Meanwhile, he liked PA's output of All Americans, and thought a better deal would be being the top program in PA. It's not certain Cael could have landed as many elite recruits as the Iowa State coach. His PA-native champs include Haines, Starocci, Cenzo, Nolf, Retherford, Megaludis, Wright, and Ruth. That's a lot of in-state fire power.

True that Iowa isn't as rich a recruiting territory as Pennsylvania, but there is no guarantee Cael wouldn't have landed all those dudes anyway if he'd stayed at ISU. 

[Southend]

13 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Derek White was the "Cowboy Bulk Job" in going from 197 to 250.

 

If Coleman ends up NOT getting the HC job at Ok State...I will deem his inducement to leave a primo HC job at UNC to leave for Ok State the "Cowboy Screw Job".  I would honestly feel bad very bad for Coleman, he's also a PA boy like me.

I agree. Screw job!

[MPhillips]

8 hours ago, 1032004 said:

I don’t particularly care about you being wrong, but I’ll admit I do like to be right.

Right you are...

[billyhoyle]

So back to the original topic....They really did CS dirty here.  Usually, it's coaches that leave programs in the dust, not the other way around. 

[ionel]

9 minutes ago, billyhoyle said:

So back to the original topic....They really did CS dirty here.  Usually, it's coaches that leave programs in the dust, not the other way around. 

I thought Coleman was a big boy?  And you really don't think he didn't ask or John and AD didn't explain the possible scenarios?

I'm not sure surprised with pastry boy but ...

[billyhoyle]

Just now, ionel said:

I thought Coleman was a big boy?  And you really don't think he didn't ask or John and AD didn't explain the possible scenarios?

I'm not sure surprised with pastry boy but ...

I have no idea, but why would he leave UNC unless he was told he'd get the job? 

[ionel]

Just now, billyhoyle said:

I have no idea, but why would he leave UNC unless he was told he'd get the job? 

Just guessing good money and they prob told him he'd be first in line for the job but it wasn't a head coach in waiting.  And if AB had not beat DT ...

[scorenomore]

14 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Derek White was the "Cowboy Bulk Job" in going from 197 to 250.

 

If Coleman ends up NOT getting the HC job at Ok State...I will deem his inducement to leave a primo HC job at UNC to leave for Ok State the "Cowboy Screw Job".  I would honestly feel bad very bad for Coleman, he's also a PA boy like me.

Well, not so fast there.  Do you know how many recruits Coleman misled and said he was staying at UNC?

[Tom formerly Tofurky]

19 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Derek White was the "Cowboy Bulk Job" in going from 197 to 250.

 

If Coleman ends up NOT getting the HC job at Ok State...I will deem his inducement to leave a primo HC job at UNC to leave for Ok State the "Cowboy Screw Job".  I would honestly feel bad very bad for Coleman, he's also a PA boy like me.

One might also include Esposito and Guerrero in there before Scott.

[1032004]

6 hours ago, ionel said:

I thought Coleman was a big boy?  And you really don't think he didn't ask or John and AD didn't explain the possible scenarios?

I agree, I was skeptical all along that he was really promised anything.

Will still be interesting to see if he stays and for how long though

 

[jackwebster]

7 hours ago, Ched64 said:

Great observation…he saw PA kids outperforming all over the country yet their flagship university wasn’t getting them…makes a lot of sense and speaks to Cael’s acumen…I have always liked how he gets the most out of his kids…John Smith in recent years, not so much.

Yeah, gotdam genius that guy. Saw what no one else saw . . . except, ya know, everybody.

[Husker U]

First of all, this is a great hire for OSU.  Going out and getting Taylor, but it is a total screw job to Scott.  I think it is a big kick in the nuts to Smith also.  The entire coaching carousel at OK St. has been confusing to me and there were a lot of things that have led up to this that I would have never seen coming.  The surprises to me started when Smith let Eric Guerrero go.  He had been Smith's right hand man for many years.  Then Esposito is gone.  Next they lure Scott from a Head Coaching position at UNC to come in and coach with Smith in his final season.  I can't believe people think that Scott would leave a Head job at UNC for just a chance at becoming the Head Coach at OK St.  I would think that the only way he would leave is if he was told that he would be the man once Smith did retire.  To me it seemed like a done deal and he was Smith's choice to replace him.  I may be wrong here, but I wouldn't think that Scott would leave a Head Coaching job and move his family half way across the country if he was not told that the job was his and he is the one that legendary coach John Smith hand picked to continue the Oklahoma State legacy.  

[nhs67]

A lot of whinging going on here.

Coleman Scott is a big boy.  He will be fine.

If he decided to overlook the fact that the law requires there be a public job posting and a true vetting process of all applicants, then that is on him for not doing his diligence beforehand.

[maligned]

3 hours ago, jackwebster said:

Yeah, gotdam genius that guy. Saw what no one else saw . . . except, ya know, everybody.

It's one thing to see something as true--and another thing entirely to have the confidence and emotional intelligence to act on it and follow through on putting all of the pieces in place to take advantage of it. He saw the facts AND the path to using the facts AND he executed it. That's the genius we're lauding. I love to hate PSU as much as the next guy--but Cael is an all-time genius on many levels.

[Dogbone]

11 hours ago, NM1965 said:

True that Iowa isn't as rich a recruiting territory as Pennsylvania, but there is no guarantee Cael wouldn't have landed all those dudes anyway if he'd stayed at ISU. 

If you are ignoring all the money and resources that PSU has thrown at wrestling, I guess.

PSU/NWLC have had a leg up on the field for a while, in part because Cael saw that possibility there and not at ISU.

[nhs67]

2 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

If you are ignoring all the money and resources that PSU has thrown at wrestling, I guess.

PSU/NWLC have had a leg up on the field for a while, in part because Cael saw that possibility there and not at ISU.

It is convenient for folks to ignore the what... $9-10 million endowment they have that no other wrestling program has.

[jackwebster]

8 minutes ago, Husker U said:

 I think it is a big kick in the nuts to Smith 

No doubt. Smith must have believed that he had the final word on all things Cowboy wrestling. Then admin showed us exactly what his life's work is worth to them.

[HungusMungus]

Coleman screwed Coleman 

You don't leave a solid head coaching job without an iron clad guarantee that you were the next inline 

Blind faith got him to this point. He will be fine and end up with a HC job in the next cycle. 

[AgaveMaria]

32 minutes ago, HungusMungus said:

Coleman screwed Coleman 

You don't leave a solid head coaching job without an iron clad guarantee that you were the next inline 

Blind faith got him to this point. He will be fine and end up with a HC job in the next cycle. 

He was probably promised  the job.

Nothing in writing... and we all know an oral promise isn't worth the paper it is printed on.