Show_Me Posted March 19 Posted March 19 If I recall ... wasn't there a deadline yesterday for replacing/withdrawing a qualified wrestler? If so, no bracket changes due to Alternates ... yet. Can anyone confirm or add additional insight.
SocraTease Posted March 19 Posted March 19 I find it kind of amazing that there seems to be very few wrestlers each year who don't make weight at NCAAs (and other tournaments) ... at least that we hear about. I'm curious out of 330 wrestlers, how many miss weight through the years? Wrestleknownothing: do you have any data on this matter? I'm betting some of your super sleuthing might turn up something ... unless this is a stumper.
Wrestleknownothing Posted March 19 Posted March 19 15 minutes ago, Show_Me said: If I recall ... wasn't there a deadline yesterday for replacing/withdrawing a qualified wrestler? If so, no bracket changes due to Alternates ... yet. Can anyone confirm or add additional insight. I think @gimpeltf had info about this. If I recall correctly, the first alternate can be on site in case of a last minute change (like missed weight). The only missed weight I can remember was one in 2019 (or maybe 2018). Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge
VakAttack Posted March 19 Posted March 19 (edited) I distinctly remember Joe LeBlanc from Wyoming missing weight, but on Day 3. Edited March 19 by VakAttack
gimpeltf Posted March 19 Posted March 19 They do allow the first alternate in to weighin just in case. As far as I recall, everyone else bumps up seed-wise and the alternate takes 33. Back when I was doing it the deadline was 5pm Monday before. I don't remember having a seeded kid replaced (not saying it didn't happen) to recall the process. I think we would redraw at that point since we didn't seed all the way down.
PortaJohn Posted March 19 Posted March 19 6 minutes ago, VakAttack said: I distinctly remember Joe LeBlan from Wyoming missing weight, but on Day 3. Thats a great trivia question for @cowcards how many wrestlers have both won and loss a match by forfeit at the NCAA tourney (single year) I Don't Agree With What I Posted
VakAttack Posted March 19 Posted March 19 5 minutes ago, PortaJohn said: Thats a great trivia question for @cowcards how many wrestlers have both won and loss a match by forfeit at the NCAA tourney (single year) "Name a wrestler who murdered a Vak fantasy team." 2
Threadkilla Posted March 19 Posted March 19 14 minutes ago, VakAttack said: I distinctly remember Joe LeBlan from Wyoming missing weight, but on Day 3. 2011, He missed weight for the consi semi's and finished 6th. Still 4x AA I believe.
Wrestleknownothing Posted March 19 Posted March 19 Found it. 2018. Turns out it is tough when you are corn fed. Nebraska freshman 133-pounder Jason Renteria did not make weight Thursday morning and was scratched from the tournament. Northwestern's Colin Valdiviez replaced Renteria in the bracket as an alternate. Scott DelVecchio had to be happy with the development, even though he and Renteria were on opposite sides of the bracket. Renteria beat the Rutgers senior three times this season, including twice at the Big Ten Championships two weeks ago. DelVecchio owns two wins against Valdiviez this season. Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge
CHROMEBIRD Posted March 19 Posted March 19 7 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said: Found it. 2018. Turns out it is tough when you are corn fed. Nebraska freshman 133-pounder Jason Renteria did not make weight Thursday morning and was scratched from the tournament. Northwestern's Colin Valdiviez replaced Renteria in the bracket as an alternate. Scott DelVecchio had to be happy with the development, even though he and Renteria were on opposite sides of the bracket. Renteria beat the Rutgers senior three times this season, including twice at the Big Ten Championships two weeks ago. DelVecchio owns two wins against Valdiviez this season. Is JRent still a bad word around here? What could have been...
Show_Me Posted March 19 Author Posted March 19 30 minutes ago, gimpeltf said: They do allow the first alternate in to weighin just in case. As far as I recall, everyone else bumps up seed-wise and the alternate takes 33. Back when I was doing it the deadline was 5pm Monday before. I don't remember having a seeded kid replaced (not saying it didn't happen) to recall the process. I think we would redraw at that point since we didn't seed all the way down. So, does that Monday deadline for pulling injured wrestlers no longer exists ?
cowcards Posted March 19 Posted March 19 35 minutes ago, PortaJohn said: Thats a great trivia question for @cowcards how many wrestlers have both won and loss a match by forfeit at the NCAA tourney (single year) That was way more likely to happen in the earlier years of the tournament. It definitely happened a few times. 58 minutes ago, SocraTease said: I find it kind of amazing that there seems to be very few wrestlers each year who don't make weight at NCAAs (and other tournaments) ... at least that we hear about. I'm curious out of 330 wrestlers, how many miss weight through the years? Wrestleknownothing: do you have any data on this matter? I'm betting some of your super sleuthing might turn up something ... unless this is a stumper. Some guys that I have tracked but not all inclusive: 1969 - John Imrie (Missed at 191 and bumped to UNL) 1976 - Shaw Garel 1981 - Steve Rosenstein 1981 - Thomas Landrum 1981 - Dave Allen 1981 - Joe Atiyeh 1981 - Johnnie Selmon 1982 - Craig Noble 1984 - Melvin Douglas 1989 - Stacy Richmond 1994 - Eric Ivins 1995 - Alfonso Crus 1996 - Dustin Young 2007 - Daryl Cocozzo 2011 - Joe LeBlanc 1981 is the craziest year for missed weight. Selmon misses 2nd day and gives Clar Anderson a FFT to the semis. Rosenstein lost to Anderson in the first round Landrum lost to Anderson in the 2nd round Because those 2 missed on day 2, there is no wrestle-back for his part of the bracket (only those who lost to the semifinalists wrestled-back) Baza gets a FFT to the 5/6 match No 8th placer I left out one that I'll actually do a trivia question about this very topic in a few. 1
gimpeltf Posted March 19 Posted March 19 26 minutes ago, Show_Me said: So, does that Monday deadline for pulling injured wrestlers no longer exists ? Not sure. I guess it would allow the second alternate to become the first and weighin. 2 minutes ago, cowcards said: That was way more likely to happen in the earlier years of the tournament. It definitely happened a few times. 1976 - Shaw Garel Funny story about this one. Shawn won the year before and was the coverboy for the 1976 rulebook. He misses weight 2nd day for quarters. Coach Stan Abel says last year he was an outstanding wrestler- this year he was out standing in the hall! (Frick was The OW the year before but Stan always took liberties). Also, Abel was one of the coaches that referees would give a warning to when walking into the gym! 3
fishbane Posted March 19 Posted March 19 15 minutes ago, cowcards said: That was way more likely to happen in the earlier years of the tournament. It definitely happened a few times. Some guys that I have tracked but not all inclusive: 1969 - John Imrie (Missed at 191 and bumped to UNL) 1976 - Shaw Garel 1981 - Steve Rosenstein 1981 - Thomas Landrum 1981 - Dave Allen 1981 - Joe Atiyeh 1981 - Johnnie Selmon 1982 - Craig Noble 1984 - Melvin Douglas 1989 - Stacy Richmond 1994 - Eric Ivins 1995 - Alfonso Crus 1996 - Dustin Young 2007 - Daryl Cocozzo 2011 - Joe LeBlanc 1981 is the craziest year for missed weight. Selmon misses 2nd day and gives Clar Anderson a FFT to the semis. Rosenstein lost to Anderson in the first round Landrum lost to Anderson in the 2nd round Because those 2 missed on day 2, there is no wrestle-back for his part of the bracket (only those who lost to the semifinalists wrestled-back) Baza gets a FFT to the 5/6 match No 8th placer I left out one that I'll actually do a trivia question about this very topic in a few. What happened in 1981? How did 5 guys miss weight?
Eagle26 Posted March 19 Posted March 19 1 hour ago, SocraTease said: I find it kind of amazing that there seems to be very few wrestlers each year who don't make weight at NCAAs I find it amazing that any wrestler has ever missed weight for NCAAs! I just can’t imagine that
ionel Posted March 19 Posted March 19 1 hour ago, fishbane said: What happened in 1981? How did 5 guys miss weight? You are familiar with the 7 lb change to weight classes and why? 1 .
wrestle87 Posted March 19 Posted March 19 (edited) 2 hours ago, VakAttack said: I distinctly remember Joe LeBlanc from Wyoming missing weight, but on Day 3. What happens in this situation? Are you disqualified or do you just forfeit? Edit: I did my own research, he just forfeited his matches that day. Edited March 19 by wrestle87
wrestle87 Posted March 19 Posted March 19 10 minutes ago, ionel said: You are familiar with the 7 lb change to weight classes and why? I remember sitting around being all sucked out, waiting to weigh in for one tournament in college in the late 00's, and our coach told us stories about what it used to be like with 24 hour weigh-ins. Just insanity, dudes doing everything under the sun to suck water out of their bodies, but then also being able to just go back and get absolutely massive by the time they were actually supposed to wrestle. I think this is something mitch clark talked about in his book, saying he weighed at or over 200lbs by the time he stepped on the mat for his 177 lb ncaa finals match. But yeah...the weigh-in rules are a good thing. Look at how much weight UFC guys suck out and then put back on. 205's walk around ~240, 185 guys weight ~220 by the time they get in the cage... Even though pulling weight is still a thing, I'm glad they put brackets on it, it has taken the worst 15% off of it, and now guys either perform terribly or just miss weight, which is a walk in the park compared to other serious downside outcomes.
fishbane Posted March 19 Posted March 19 19 minutes ago, ionel said: You are familiar with the 7 lb change to weight classes and why? The 7 pound change happened in 1998. That was because multiple wrestlers died cutting weight that year. How is that related to 5 guys missing weight at NCAAs 17 years earlier. 1
fishbane Posted March 19 Posted March 19 8 minutes ago, wrestle87 said: I think this is something mitch clark talked about in his book, saying he weighed at or over 200lbs by the time he stepped on the mat for his 177 lb ncaa finals match. I think you are missing some context for this. Clark won his NCAA title in 1998. Though the weights would officially change up 7lbs the following season wrestlers were given a 7 pound allowance for the remainder of the season after the deaths. So on day 1 of NCAAs that year Clark had to weigh in 184. Not sure if they had to make flat weight for multiple day tournaments in 1998 or if he would have had a 2lbs allowance for the last day, but gaining 14-16lbs by the finals is a little different than gaining 23lbs.
ionel Posted March 19 Posted March 19 11 minutes ago, fishbane said: The 7 pound change happened in 1998. That was because multiple wrestlers died cutting weight that year. How is that related to 5 guys missing weight at NCAAs 17 years earlier. Look at the numbers. How many guys have missed since 1998 and how many before. They were doing crazy stuff back then. Maybe 5 guys felt like within half pound of death and quit, maybe a sauna was out that year? .
Wrestleknownothing Posted March 19 Posted March 19 https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/wrestling/d1/men/2023-24D1MWR_ChampionshipsTimeline.pdf This document suggests the replacements are decided at the time of weigh-in on 3/21 Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge
jdalu75 Posted March 19 Posted March 19 (edited) From the Pre-Championships Manual: REPLACEMENT POLICY The NCAA Wrestling Committee will select two alternates per weight, one alternate per weight class will be invited to the championships. If any wrestler withdraws or does not make weight, the alternate will be inserted into the bracket. Teams should notify the NCAA as soon as they know a wrestler will not be able to compete. The replacement deadline is the time of weigh-ins on the first day of competition. Action begins Thursday at 11 AM CDT, so the deadline is 9 AM CDT. Gotta believe that the NCAA isn't happy if a guy who broke his neck at his conference tournament is pulled two minutes before weigh-ins begin. Edited March 19 by jdalu75 1
CHROMEBIRD Posted March 19 Posted March 19 24 minutes ago, jdalu75 said: From the Pre-Championships Manual: REPLACEMENT POLICY The NCAA Wrestling Committee will select two alternates per weight, one alternate per weight class will be invited to the championships. If any wrestler withdraws or does not make weight, the alternate will be inserted into the bracket. Teams should notify the NCAA as soon as they know a wrestler will not be able to compete. The replacement deadline is the time of weigh-ins on the first day of competition. Action begins Thursday at 11 AM CDT, so the deadline is 9 AM CDT. Gotta believe that the NCAA isn't happy if a guy who broke his neck at his conference tournament is pulled two minutes before weigh-ins begin. I never really paid attention to the alternates, but it's pretty wild that Bubba Wilson is listed as the 2nd alt. Also not sure why 197 only has one alt. 125 1st Alternate: Anthony Molton (Campbell) 2nd Alternate: Jack Maida (American) 133 1st Alternate: Vincent Santaniello (Pittsburgh) 2nd Alternate: Gabe Whisenhunt (Oregon State) 141 1st Alternate: Jacob Brya (Northern Illinois) 2nd Alternate: Ryan Sullivan (Clarion) 149 1st Alternate: Maxwell Petersen (North Dakota State) 2nd Alternate: Nash Singleton (Oregon State) 157 1st Alternate: Tanner Peake (Davidson) 2nd Alternate: Nathan Lukez (Army West Point) 165 1st Alternate: Cael Carlson (Oklahoma) 2nd Alternate: Cody Walsh (Drexel) 174 1st Alternate: Tyler Brennan (Arkansas-Little Rock) 2nd Alternate: Bubba Wilson (Nebraska) 184 1st Alternate: Dennis Robin (West Virginia) 2nd Alternate: Troy Fisher (Northwestern) 197 1st Alternate: Blake Schaffer (Kent State) 2nd Alternate: [None] 285 1st Alternate: William Jarrell (American) 2nd Alternate: Luke Rasmussen (South Dakota State)
Asher Sheldon Batavia, Illinois Class of 2025 Committed to Wisconsin La Crosse Projected Weight: 197, 285
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