Limiting the number of matches - any negative consequences?

[AgaveMaria]

We are watching teams limit the number of duals and matches during the season. Almost looks like it did in the 50's and 60's.

Wondering if the lack of two and three matches over a weekend will have any residual effect come The Big Dance?

Not being used to a number of matches over a few days might find some not fully prepare - or is it a non-starter?

Teams that hit a few touraments might have wrestlers more attuned to the grind of the Conference and NCAA finals - will it make a difference for many of them?

Glad Cael wrestled when more matches were  the norm. Gave us a lot more matches to watch.

[Le duke]

In his weekly press availability, Cael said they are going to have to get the 149lber (Evans or Kasak, likely both) some more matches to help the conference qualify the weight and earn an allocation.

So, seems that from that perspective there is certainly a negative side to reduced match counts.


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[Wrestleknownothing]

It is a fair question. I do not know the answer. But it seems like there is a clear trade off.

To get better at wrestling you should wrestle.

But wrestling wears the body down and can make you worse at wrestling.

Getting that balance right is why the coaches get paid the big bucks (well, in some cases).

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

Negatives:  hurts fan appeal in a major way.

Maybe the only way to get guys to wrestle more would be to have number of matches be part of the seeding criteria.  I know some top states have done this in high school.

[TexRef]

55 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Negatives:  hurts fan appeal in a major way.

Maybe the only way to get guys to wrestle more would be to have number of matches be part of the seeding criteria.  I know some top states have done this in high school.

Ok, I'll bite. Who are the top states that have a number of matches as part of the seeding? 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

Just now, TexRef said:

Ok, I'll bite. Who are the top states that have a number of matches as part of the seeding? 

I saw an old formula the other day.  I'm not sure if it is still used, but it was from OH or PA, I think.  I really don't remember, but it made me think.

I'll look for it again.

[jchapman]

1 hour ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

It is a fair question. I do not know the answer. But it seems like there is a clear trade off.

To get better at wrestling you should wrestle.

But wrestling wears the body down and can make you worse at wrestling.

Getting that balance right is why the coaches get paid the big bucks (well, in some cases).

And maybe programs like Penn State are using their own practice room to get better, instead of relying heavily on NCAA matches.  They can provide great wrestling partners while having the ability to control variables such as intensity, recovery, weight management, etc.

[forkemaz]

42 minutes ago, jchapman said:

And maybe programs like Penn State are using their own practice room to get better, instead of relying heavily on NCAA matches.  They can provide great wrestling partners while having the ability to control variables such as intensity, recovery, weight management, etc.

Sounds pretty selfish when supposedly growing the sport is so high on our priority list as a community. The best team phoning most of the season in with a coach who preaches enthusiasm but sits there like he's at a funeral aren't a good look. Say what you want about The Gable style but it was better for the fans than this.

[forkemaz]

Seriously watch Cael during the Haines vs Saldate match. I get valuing stoicism but the guy looks like he doesn't even want to be there. It's lame.

[ionel]

1 minute ago, forkemaz said:

Sounds pretty selfish when supposedly growing the sport is so high on our priority list as a community. The best team phoning most of the season in with a coach who preaches enthusiasm but sits there like he's at a funeral aren't a good look. Say what you want about The Gable style but it was better for the fans than this.

Maybe we should have dodgeball during the "half time" break.  Might be the only way to convince Carl that duals matter?  

[TexRef]

24 minutes ago, ionel said:

Maybe we should have dodgeball during the "half time" break.  Might be the only way to convince Carl that duals matter?  

Don't forget the 4 D's of Dodgeball! 

[OMW]

2 hours ago, AgaveMaria said:

We are watching teams limit the number of duals and matches during the season. Almost looks like it did in the 50's and 60's.

The big difference between the 50s-60s (even into the early 2000s) is that - for the most part - wrestlers arriving on college campuses have had hundreds of matches as kids and high schoolers. 15-20 matches instead of 40 is probably a better roi for how some college coaches view what's best for their wrestlers and programs.

If the practice room is tougher than most tournaments and the work is getting put in, it looks like programs have put that over the stress of travel and multiple weigh-ins.  

 

[buckshot]

3 hours ago, Le duke said:

In his weekly press availability, Cael said they are going to have to get the 149lber (Evans or Kasak, likely both) some more matches to help the conference qualify the weight and earn an allocation.

So, seems that from that perspective there is certainly a negative side to reduced match counts.


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But it's really not, they'll send them to an open where they can rack up a bunch of easy wins. Look at what Hendrickson did at the David Lehman open at F&M, he won six matches, got five pins and the highest ranked guy he saw was Ghadiala. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

I think back to my own experience as a swimmer in the 70's and 80's. I was a distance swimmer, and the mantra was all about miles. Put in more miles, volume, volume, volume.

There were days I swam as many as 10 miles. The idea was to over-train for most of the year then pick two meets to peak for by tapering the training. As a result I got burnt out by the time I was sin college and my labrums are frayed messes.

The focus now is on quality over quantity. There is more sports science employed, and it gets better results. I think the same is true for wrestling. Just because they used to wrestle a lot of matches does not mean that was the right number of matches to wrestle.

[1032004]

30 minutes ago, buckshot said:

But it's really not, they'll send them to an open where they can rack up a bunch of easy wins. Look at what Hendrickson did at the David Lehman open at F&M, he won six matches, got five pins and the highest ranked guy he saw was Ghadiala. 

Ghadiali is probably better than anyone Kerk has wrestled sans Davison.

[peanut]

1 hour ago, forkemaz said:

Seriously watch Cael during the Haines vs Saldate match. I get valuing stoicism but the guy looks like he doesn't even want to be there. It's lame.

You watched a coach during a wrestling match?

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

37 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I think back to my own experience as a swimmer in the 70's and 80's. I was a distance swimmer, and the mantra was all about miles. Put in more miles, volume, volume, volume.

There were days I swam as many as 10 miles. The idea was to over-train for most of the year then pick two meets to peak for by tapering the training. As a result I got burnt out by the time I was sin college and my labrums are frayed messes.

The focus now is on quality over quantity. There is more sports science employed, and it gets better results. I think the same is true for wrestling. Just because they used to wrestle a lot of matches does not mean that was the right number of matches to wrestle.

So, lets just have a 3 day tournament and give up on the duals.

[Wrestleknownothing]

10 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

So, lets just have a 3 day tournament and give up on the duals.

[buckshot]

41 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Ghadiali is probably better than anyone Kerk has wrestled sans Davison.

Kerk teched Hendrickson inside of two periods at the All-Star meet. You can say it doesn't count but you'd be saying something completely different if it had gone the other way.

[buckshot]

48 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Ghadiali is probably better than anyone Kerk has wrestled sans Davison.

He also beat Taylor 2x who is ranked ahead of Ghadiali. Ghadiali also lost handily to the guy from American. 

[forkemaz]

36 minutes ago, peanut said:

You watched a coach during a wrestling match?

I have watched the match several times and noticed Cael specifically during the lock hand challenge I beleive. Everyone in the entire place is freaking out and he has a look on his face like he just dumped in his pants so he can't move.

[JVStateChamp]

11 minutes ago, buckshot said:

Kerk teched Hendrickson inside of two periods at the All-Star meet. You can say it doesn't count but you'd be saying something completely different if it had gone the other way.

The point of the match minimum is to reward those who step on the line during the season. Whether you think the F&M open is good competition or not is beside the fact, those who go to the tournament are still wrestling D1 level competition.

[Le duke]

Ghadiali is probably better than anyone Kerk has wrestled sans Davison.

Hendrickson got torn apart by Kerk, or are we pretending that didn’t happen now?


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[Le duke]

Seriously watch Cael during the Haines vs Saldate match. I get valuing stoicism but the guy looks like he doesn't even want to be there. It's lame.

Man, a coach focused on observing his wrestler’s performance vs a crazy person acting like a 5 year old, a la Terry Brands. How dare you, Cael Sanderson. Don’t you know this is a sport for the emotionally unstable?


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[1032004]

14 minutes ago, Le duke said:

Hendrickson got torn apart by Kerk, or are we pretending that didn’t happen now?


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27 minutes ago, buckshot said:

He also beat Taylor 2x who is ranked ahead of Ghadiali. Ghadiali also lost handily to the guy from American. 

Taylor/Ghadiali is probably a tossup, gimme Ghadiali if it happens.

Lol, no one is saying Hendrickson should be ranked/seeded higher than Kerk.  Once he gets the required matches he’ll come in at #1.  I was just pointing out that Hendrickson has faced some good competition.

I think a match requirement to be ranked/seeded makes sense but sure, we can probably debate the number it should be.

Edited January 24 by 1032004