Russia Out...Again.

[Le duke]

The unilateral decision taken by the Russian Olympic Committee on 5 October 2023 to include, as its members, the regional sports organisations which are under the authority of the National Olympic Committee (NOC) of Ukraine (namely Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk and Zaporizhzhia) constitutes a breach of the Olympic Charter because it violates the territorial integrity of the NOC of Ukraine, as recognised by the International Olympic Committee (IOC) in accordance with the Olympic Charter.

https://olympics.com/ioc/news/ioc-executive-board-suspends-russian-olympic-committee-with-immediate-effect

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

8 minutes ago, Le duke said:

The unilateral decision taken by the Russian Olympic Committee on 5 October 2023 to include, as its members, the regional sports organisations which are under the authority of the National Olympic Committee (NOC) of Ukraine (namely Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk and Zaporizhzhia) constitutes a breach of the Olympic Charter because it violates the territorial integrity of the NOC of Ukraine, as recognised by the International Olympic Committee (IOC) in accordance with the Olympic Charter.

https://olympics.com/ioc/news/ioc-executive-board-suspends-russian-olympic-committee-with-immediate-effect

No big deal.  2nd rate wrestling nation at this point anyway.

[nhs67]

So they were lobbied in for Worlds then removed again?

So Dake gets the Gold now?

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

9 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

So they were lobbied in for Worlds then removed again?

So Dake gets the Gold now?

Interesting question.  

Sidakov should never have been allowed.  Hardcore "Team Z" member.

[WrestlingRasta]

Conflicted on this, as I'm sure are many.  On one hand they have to be dealt with, on the other we want the best of the best....

[bnwtwg]

Russia out, AINal in

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

3 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Conflicted on this, as I'm sure are many.  On one hand they have to be dealt with, on the other we want the best of the best....

Of course, but unfortunately many of "the best" are actively involved in Putin's propaganda machine.  

(And really, they're 3rd best lol)

[WrestlingRasta]

29 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Of course, but unfortunately many of "the best" are actively involved in Putin's propaganda machine.  

(And really, they're 3rd best lol)

Honest question, I'm curious.  Where do you get the information that Sidakov is hard core Z.   I haven't really been able to find much on athlete's affiliation.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

Attended a pro-war rally where he was an honored guest. Pictures of him in front of a tank at the rally.  He's also represented Russian military competitions and belongs to a military affiliated club. (or did belong to one).

He's been used as part of the propaganda machine.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

The above mentioned rally may have been the same one where Russian Wrestling Federation head Mamiashvilli said if Russia wasn't allowed in the Olympics then they will roll in the tanks and force their way in.  This man is also UWW VP, unless I am mistaken.

[Voice of the Quakers]

Don't know about Sidakov personally, but I have great empathy for athletes who may be told to support Putin or else be thrown off of a hotel balcony.

It's why, unfortunately, the best decision for now is just to ban Russians from the Olympics and any competition where they are expressly representing their country.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

28 minutes ago, Voice of the Quakers said:

Don't know about Sidakov personally, but I have great empathy for athletes who may be told to support Putin or else be thrown off of a hotel balcony.

It's why, unfortunately, the best decision for now is just to ban Russians from the Olympics and any competition where they are expressly representing their country.

Good point.

[WrestlingRasta]

That is a good point. To add to it, in many cases what they are told is going on in the world and what is actually going on in the world are two completely different things. 
 

Here we at least have the option of which bullshit stories we want to believe. There, in many many cases (especially in areas where the best combat athletes come from) they get one story and one story only. 

[Lipdrag]

I object (nearly unconditionally) to national politics playing any role whatsoever in international sporting events.  Boycotts in 1980 and 1984 changed no national policies anywhere but hurt the athletes tremendously.  South Africa's athletes paid a huge price for virtue signalling of no useful consequence.

The (illogical) next step will be to disallow a country's athletes to participate over pronouns and bathroom privileges and carbon credits.  Because, you know, the earth is at stake.

While there may be no good answer to the "international community" signalling disapproval of a specific country's actions and policies banning athlete participation in competitions is definitely THE bad answer.

[Voice of the Quakers]

I am a former student of Gene Mills. He is still very bitter over the 1980 boycott, and rightfully so.

Ultimately, I don't think there is a one size fits all answer to these scenarios. In hindsight, President Carter's decision to boycott the 1980 games was a mistake. Right now, Russia has been legitimately accused of war crimes in Ukraine. Regardless of how you feel about aiding Ukraine, I'm not sure how most western countries can play nice with Russia right now.

https://www.csce.gov/international-impact/events/russian-war-crimes-ukraine

[mspart]

So will Russian athletes be able to compete under another flag like they did in the recent WCs?  If so, they still have the opportunity to compete, just that Russia will not be in the story. 

mspart

[CHROMEBIRD]

I'm assuming so. 

[wrestle87]

On 10/12/2023 at 1:06 PM, Lipdrag said:

I object (nearly unconditionally) to national politics playing any role whatsoever in international sporting events.  Boycotts in 1980 and 1984 changed no national policies anywhere but hurt the athletes tremendously.  South Africa's athletes paid a huge price for virtue signalling of no useful consequence.

The (illogical) next step will be to disallow a country's athletes to participate over pronouns and bathroom privileges and carbon credits.  Because, you know, the earth is at stake.

While there may be no good answer to the "international community" signalling disapproval of a specific country's actions and policies banning athlete participation in competitions is definitely THE bad answer.

It hurts the athletes, but it also hurts the governments tremendously.  In countries that don’t have the sort of athletic infrastructure that the US does, the olympics are professional sports, but more importantly a major rallying point to drum up nationalism and simultaneously drown out domestic issues.  This is why the Olympics are so important to a country like China.  Olympic success is part of a much more internecine machine that empowers the incumbent rulers and regimes.  Countries that are top-down oppressive rely on events like the olympics to serve as justification for rallying cries and domestic propaganda.  The olympics are not the same thing to all countries.

[mspart]

Yeah, Hitler did just this way back in 1936 in Berlin to show the superiority of the Arian race.   Jesse Owens ruined his week. 

mspart

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

14 minutes ago, mspart said:

Yeah, Hitler did just this way back in 1936 in Berlin to show the superiority of the Arian race.   Jesse Owens ruined his week. 

mspart

China still doing it and adding Hong Kong and Taiwan to their medal totals!

[Jim L]

8 hours ago, wrestle87 said:

It hurts the athletes, but it also hurts the governments tremendously.  In countries that don’t have the sort of athletic infrastructure that the US does, the olympics are professional sports, but more importantly a major rallying point to drum up nationalism and simultaneously drown out domestic issues.  This is why the Olympics are so important to a country like China.  Olympic success is part of a much more internecine machine that empowers the incumbent rulers and regimes.  Countries that are top-down oppressive rely on events like the olympics to serve as justification for rallying cries and domestic propaganda.  The olympics are not the same thing to all countries.

Somebody got their thesaurus out today!

in·ter·ne·cine

/ˌin(t)ərˈneˌsēn,ˌin(t)ərˈnēˌsīn/

adjective

 

1. destructive to both sides in a conflict.

[Lipdrag]

12 hours ago, wrestle87 said:

It hurts the athletes, but it also hurts the governments tremendously.  In countries that don’t have the sort of athletic infrastructure that the US does, the olympics are professional sports, but more importantly a major rallying point to drum up nationalism and simultaneously drown out domestic issues.  This is why the Olympics are so important to a country like China.  Olympic success is part of a much more internecine machine that empowers the incumbent rulers and regimes.  Countries that are top-down oppressive rely on events like the olympics to serve as justification for rallying cries and domestic propaganda.  The olympics are not the same thing to all countries.

I know. 

I still think Zola Budd should have been able to run barefoot in international competitions without a sham GB "citizenship".  And I think the Russian wrestlers should be in even though Vladdie is a baddie.

Now, if the issue is systematic doping and PEDs to enhance the athletes' competitiveness then that is cheating and valid grounds for barring a team on a sport by sport basis.  I say that because if the Jamaican bobsledders are doped up it should not stop Usain Bolt and Merlene Ottey from competing.  IMHO.

I used to wonder why everyone was declaring him/herself to be Don Ho.  Then a kid clued me in that it does not mean "I am Ho"

[MPhillips]

For the dummies in the back...

5 hours ago, Jim L said:

 

in·ter·ne·cine

/ˌin(t)ərˈneˌsēn,ˌin(t)ərˈnēˌsīn/

 

adjective

 

1. destructive to both sides in a conflict.

 

[wrestle87]

1 hour ago, Lipdrag said:

I know. 

I still think Zola Budd should have been able to run barefoot in international competitions without a sham GB "citizenship".  And I think the Russian wrestlers should be in even though Vladdie is a baddie.

Now, if the issue is systematic doping and PEDs to enhance the athletes' competitiveness then that is cheating and valid grounds for barring a team on a sport by sport basis.  I say that because if the Jamaican bobsledders are doped up it should not stop Usain Bolt and Merlene Ottey from competing.  IMHO.

I used to wonder why everyone was declaring him/herself to be Don Ho.  Then a kid clued me in that it does not mean "I am Ho"

A question I an curious about, bc I really have no idea, did just calling all the russian athleted “Independent” do anything at all on the russian side besides keeping them from playing the russian national anthem and flying the flag.  If you change what athletes compete under, but still have all russian athletes competing as the same common name, is that really changing anything?  Russia can still point to its athletes domestically and celebrate their successes all the same.  And ostensibly russia’s athletes got the same compensation for medaling 

[billyhoyle]

This will really put an asterisk on the golds of some of the weights, unfortunately, but you can't allow a country to participate that is including illegally annexed sports bodies as part of its Olympic contingent.  

I wonder if this was done on purpose so their athletes would be banned. It gives them a way to complain, which they love doing, while avoiding the potential for defections/political messages.