Israel Attacked

[jross]

13 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

How do you distinguish between Hamas and innocent Palestinian? 

Probably not possible when Hamas is forcing citizens to stay put; those who support the PA authority over Hamas also hate the Jews, and citizens with less hate are at risk from their countrymen.

The survey results indicate that Palestinians believe controlling Palestine is their God-given right.  Most prefer to take control via peace but will fight for it forever.  When they think about the occupation, most get so angry that they wish all Israelis would disappear.  But not everyone shares those thoughts, and thoughts are not actions.

2020 Survey results of interest (article on what Palestinians want, 2020 survey results)

• ~60% of respondents want to regain all of historical Palestine for the Palestinians, from the river to the sea (and believe it will happen because "God is on their side.")
• ~70% of Gaza/West Bank respondents desire that the Palestinian Authority should “take over the administration” of Gaza
• The highest national goal is to support the resistance to end the occupation.
• ~70% would prefer to live in an equally nice home in Palestine over Israel
• The number one thing they want from the USA is to stay out of their affairs.
• ~50% say Hamas should stop calling for Israel's destruction and accept a two-state solution based on 1967 borders
• ~60% would prefer a peaceful rather than violent approach to gain their rights
• ~40% of Gaza/West Bank respondents prefer being part of Israel to being in “PA or Hamas-ruled lands.”
•  ~30% say they can be friends with Israelis since we are all human beings after all.

[uncle bernard]

16 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

The Israeli military wears a uniform.  

How many Palestinians? 

[uncle bernard]

We're slowly but surely getting to the point where they admit that they don't view Palestinians as human and it's okay to kill them. It would be nicer if they were honest about it up front instead of pretending.

[Offthemat]

Israel has warned ‘innocent’ Palestinians to leave northern Gaza.  What has Hamas told them?

[Plasmodium]

Where are they supposed to go?

[uncle bernard]

23 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

Israel has warned ‘innocent’ Palestinians to leave northern Gaza.  What has Hamas told them?

 

20 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Where are they supposed to go?

Nowhere. Gaza is sealed off. Furthermore, it is impossible to move over 1 million people (half of which are under 18) when they have no water, electricity, internet and half of their infrastructure has been destroyed. Israel is well aware of that. They are setting the ground for an act of genocide. Remaining civilians who aren't able to move will be treated as Hamas militants and killed or imprisoned. North Gaza will be ethnically cleansed.

@Offthemat is a genocidal lunatic.

[ionel]

26 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Where are they supposed to go?

This is a difficult problem.  No easy good ways for this to end.

[uncle bernard]

Israel just shelled 3 journalists in Lebanon, killing one and wounding 3 others. Targeting journalists is an IDF pastime. 

@Offthemat and @Bigbrog should watch the video below. It's horrifying, but they need to see what they support.

 

 

[PortaJohn]

On 10/8/2023 at 10:25 AM, Bigbrog said:

What's everyone's take on this?  First thing I'll say is it is absolutely horrible.  But as much as I try to understand the Gaza strip I still don't understand the hate.  And I hope the US stays out of it.

Don't know if it's been stated yet but the US cannot stay out of this conflict.  Their involvement is important.  Their are many reasons but at this point their backing of Israel deters Iran's involvement.  

[Offthemat]

49 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Where are they supposed to go?

South of the Wadi river, about three or four miles south.  400,000 had already moved out before the warning. 

[PortaJohn]

On 10/12/2023 at 8:55 AM, jross said:

Hamas official Ali Baraka says, "Our allies are ready to join the fight."

Not gonna happen.  Hamas is done for the next couple years or until another off shoot takes its place.  Would like to add that Israel by no means is innocent in this conflict

Edited October 13, 2023 by PortaJohn

[Offthemat]

I hope the Palestinians replace Hamas with a legitimately cooperative leadership that has their best interest at heart.  With the extensions of the Abraham Accords, Iran and their proxies are becoming isolated.  

[jross]

 

 

[Ban Basketball]

44 minutes ago, jross said:

 

 

What a criminal weasel.  One of the world's most despicable.

[Husker_Du]

9 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

Where are they supposed to go?

i don't know the answer to this question i'm about to ask...it's a genuine question i don't know the answer to so please don't read anything into it (the way many on this board (including myself) often do.

But i read that Egypt has a very secure border on the Gaza strip that prevents Palestinians from entering. 

Why? do they not want them there? why has no other Muslim nation offered them refuge including Egypt, who could make it very easy for them to flee. 

[uncle bernard]

31 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

i don't know the answer to this question i'm about to ask...it's a genuine question i don't know the answer to so please don't read anything into it (the way many on this board (including myself) often do.

But i read that Egypt has a very secure border on the Gaza strip that prevents Palestinians from entering. 

Why? do they not want them there? why has no other Muslim nation offered them refuge including Egypt, who could make it very easy for them to flee. 

Because they know that Israel will never let those refugees back in the country. It’s ethnic cleansing and effectively the end of any dream of Palestinian statehood. 

edit: just found this article if you want a more thorough explanation : https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/13/egypt-gaza-border-palestinian-refugees-israel/#

Edited October 14, 2023 by uncle bernard

[GreatWhiteNorth]

11 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

And yet Israel routinely kills Palestinians in the West Bank. What was the point of this post? It adds nothing.

You say Palestinians are not their opponent, but they have no problem killing thousands of them apparently.

Simple question: How many Palestinian civilians would have to die in this Israeli action for you to say they went overboard? 

"Adds nothing"? Really?

We all have different perspectives. Make no mistake, not everyone is focused on that part of the world. That's OK.

My post was to add a basic framework for those that aren't as aware of what is happening.

If you want to fight, take that crap somewhere else. I'm not interested.

[Plasmodium]

57 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

i don't know the answer to this question i'm about to ask...it's a genuine question i don't know the answer to so please don't read anything into it (the way many on this board (including myself) often do.

But i read that Egypt has a very secure border on the Gaza strip that prevents Palestinians from entering. 

Why? do they not want them there? why has no other Muslim nation offered them refuge including Egypt, who could make it very easy for them to flee. 

It is very complex.  Arab neighbors are reluctant to take in Palestinian refugees or immigrants because they might not leave and they aren't in great position to absorb them.  That could also be an admission of defeat in a war that the Arab countries have all been involved with for 75 years.   If Palestinians leave they are going to lose even more territory to Israel, adding to the humiliation Arabs have suffered for 75 years.  This war will almost certainly cost the Palestinians land.

One of the pillars of Islam is to give alms to the needy.  Some cynics even say Arabs give alms to the Palestinians in the form of weapons to fight a continuous proxy war they don't suffer from, but which the Palestinian people suffer greatly from.  The ones supplying the arms believe it holy so they don't want to give it up.  Weird, but there is at least a grain of truth in it.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

13 hours ago, jross said:

The USA media, the general public, and some on this BBS frame the messaging as you either support Israel or else you support Hamas killing Jews.

@uncle bernard knows that Israel is mistreating Palestinian citizens, Israel is killing innocent Palestinian citizens, and Israel's behavior is causing blowback.  He is in the minority for calling this out. Criticizing Israel does not equate to supporting Hamas behavior!  That Jon Stewart clip (comment link) nailed it. 

It is factual that the recent establishment of Israel involved the displacement of Palestinian Arabs, and the Arabs view this as an occupation of their lands.  Judea is an ancient term where Jews had been displaced numerous times, and Israel views Palestinians as occupying their lands.    

How do you feel about Russia killing many, many innocent Ukrainians and occupying Ukranian land?

I'm calling it out.

[Le duke]

To quote Sesame Street:

All children deserve a safe childhood free from violence and terror.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[uncle bernard]

8 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

How do you feel about Russia killing many, many innocent Ukrainians and occupying Ukranian land?

I'm calling it out.

It’s bad and makes your acceptance of Israel doing the same thing incomprehensible. 

[Offthemat]

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2023/10/live-from-tel-aviv-6.php

[ionel]

53 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

It’s bad and makes your acceptance of Israel doing the same thing incomprehensible. 

I missed it, did Ukraine attack Russia?

[Offthemat]

Jake Wallis Simons:

“Gaza sits on top of an underground aquifer. For 18 years, while Hamas has neglected its water infrastructure and directed its resources towards funding terror, including tunnels, rockets, arms and explosives, Israel has been pumping in water, effectively propping up a jihadi regime for humanitarian purposes. The same goes for electricity and other resources. Now the rules have changed. 

Israel withdrew entirely from Gaza in 2005, leaving behind profitable farms and other facilities. These were destroyed by Hamas because they were seen to be tainted by the Jews.

Under the mismanagement, corruption and fanaticism that followed, Gaza’s economy crashed. Israel, of course, had to keep the border sealed to avoid the scenes of carnage that we have tragically witnessed in recent days. 

One thing is clear: if Gaza is an ‘open-air prison’, the true jailers are Hamas. Although Israel has been propping up Gazan society for years, it is under no legal obligation to pick up the tab for a foreign country, let alone one that is led by a regime that is hellbent on another Holocaust. And although many ordinary Palestinians loathe the terror group, an inconvenient fact is that in 2005 they elected them.”

 https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/hamas-is-not-long-for-this-world/

[Offthemat]

Even Bill Maher gets it mostly right: