NWCA All-Star Classic

[PortaJohn]

8 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Disagree.  If Lee doesn't return, or is a shell of himself if he does, I would favor O'Toole...if he's undefeated.  After that I would go Brooks next. O'Toole is going to put up more bonus than everybody other than Lee, plus his weight is better.  Obviously predicated on O'Toole running the table.  Brooks has the same number of NCAA titles as RBY, and has separated himself more clearly from the field.  Not that I think anybody is beating RBY, but I'm talking about in individual matches.  After Brooks it would probably go RBY and then Starocci, though.

If you were responding to me about the Hodge than we'll have to disagree.  That's not how the committee's been voting. 

[VakAttack]

1 minute ago, PortaJohn said:

If you were responding to me about the Hodge than we'll have to disagree.  That's not how the committee's been voting. 

The committee has been giving weight to prior accomplishments, but again, RBY and Brooks have the same number of titles.  I don't think RBY's prior 8th place finish is going to vault him over a guy with more dominant results.  We'll see, I suppose.

[PortaJohn]

7 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

The committee has been giving weight to prior accomplishments, but again, RBY and Brooks have the same number of titles.  I don't think RBY's prior 8th place finish is going to vault him over a guy with more dominant results.  We'll see, I suppose.

Than how did Burroughs win a Hodge?  I don't believe he even placed at his first NCAA and went 3rd his sophomore year?  

Edited November 23, 2022 by PortaJohn

[VakAttack]

1 minute ago, PortaJohn said:

Than how did Burroughs win a Hodge?  I don't believe he even placed at his first NCAA and went 3rd his sophomore year?  

Wait, who are you objecting to, O'Toole being over everyone other than a dominant Spencer Lee?

[PortaJohn]

10 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Wait, who are you objecting to, O'Toole being over everyone other than a dominant Spencer Lee?

I'm talking about the Hodge.  Not who actually deserves to be rated as the best folkstyle wrestler.  My Hodge rankings are Spencer, RBY, Brooks, Starrocci, then O'Toole.

Edited November 23, 2022 by PortaJohn

[VakAttack]

Just now, PortaJohn said:

I'm talking about the Hodge.  Not who actually deserves to be rated as the best folkstyle wrestler.  My Hodge rankings are Spencer, RBY, Brooks, Starrocci, then O'Toole.

And why is it you think RBY, Brooks, and Starocci would go over O'Toole?

[PortaJohn]

1 minute ago, VakAttack said:

And why is it you think RBY, Brooks, and Starocci would go over O'Toole?

It's like the Heisman.  Rby is a senior.  On his way out.  Its his to lose  & he'll put up a lot of bonus points plus if he wins it he'll have a nice exclamation with doing it against either Fix or Arujua.  Both Starrocci and Brooks are going for their 3rd. O'Toole is only a sophmore. 

Spencer could only wrestle a few matches the entire year, med forfeit out of Bigs, then wipe out the field during NCAA's and they'll give him the Hodge because it's his 4th.

 

[VakAttack]

3 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

It's like the Heisman.  Rby is a senior.  On his way out.  Its his to lose  & he'll put up a lot of bonus points plus if he wins it he'll have a nice exclamation with doing it against either Fix or Arujua.  Both Starrocci and Brooks are going for their 3rd. O'Toole is only a sophmore. 

Spencer could only wrestle a few matches the entire year, med forfeit out of Bigs, then wipe out the field during NCAA's and they'll give him the Hodge because it's his 4th.

 

I disagree.  By and large, it goes to the most dominat wrestler.  For example, Retherford won it as a junior and senior, and there were more accomplished guys in the field.  I think you're relying mostly on Dieringer winning it over Retherford (total supposition on my part, I know) but Dieringer was also dominant and a senior, with a bunch of bonus.  Neither Brooks nor RBy no Starocci are big bonus guys against even low AA type guys on the regular, with Brooks ebing most likely there.  O'Toole is going to have better numbers then them this season and is a prior champ.  Unless one of those guys makes a bonus jump, I think we'll just have to wait and see.

[PortaJohn]

10 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

I think we'll just have to wait and see.

I'll bet you right now O'Toole doesn't win the Hodge.  Whatever you want I'll agree to it.  This is assuming Spencer doesn't return.  That would be unfair.

Edited November 23, 2022 by PortaJohn

[VakAttack]

2 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

I'll bet you right now O'Toole doesn't win the Hodge.  Whatever you want I'll agree to it.

$10 trillion.

[PortaJohn]

5 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

$10 trillion.

Ha! Fair enough.  Only if you can guarantee a payment plan

[1032004]

I’d agree with Vak here, if not Lee then I’d probably put O’Toole as the next most likely based on projected bonus rate (and the level of competition at 165 having 2 other NC’s).  But probably not too far ahead of the likes of Brooks, RBY and Starocci so I’d probably need pretty good odds on O’Toole vs. the field

[Le duke]

O’Toole also strikes me as the most likely to lose before or in the NCAA final.

Brooks and Starocci have a cake walk from now through the B1G tournament this year. No one even remotely on the level before the NCAA semis for either of them.


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[BerniePragle]

19 hours ago, Mike Parrish said:

I had fun at this event once upon a time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw8TnY0fmDg

She was a tiger, Mike.

[MPhillips]

21 minutes ago, BerniePragle said:

She was a tiger, Mike.

Ramos Diaz had a mane like a lion. Dom tamed it with a beauty inside trip.

[bnwtwg]

4 hours ago, Le duke said:

O’Toole also strikes me as the most likely to lose before or in the NCAA final.

Agreed. O’Toole has all the goods and is in position to take The Leap but 165 is a meat grinder with multiple national champions and I would take odds for the field because that’s how these things go *especially* at 165 recently.

[flyingcement]

I think O'Toole will get it also.  He convincingly wins at the best weight class and he doesn't have injury or weight issues that cause him any material limitations 

[Fadzaev2]

.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Fadzaev2

[flyingcement]

2 minutes ago, Fadzaev2 said:

I don't see that happening.

because of someone else's dominance in a different weight or because you see him going down at 165?

[Fadzaev2]

6 minutes ago, flyingcement said:

because of someone else's dominance in a different weight or because you see him going down at 165?

My bad....it was in reference to another post I can't find right now.

[dragit]

12 hours ago, PortaJohn said:

Than how did Burroughs win a Hodge?  I don't believe he even placed at his first NCAA and went 3rd his sophomore year?  

By being a transcendent badass.

[1032004]

9 hours ago, bnwtwg said:

Agreed. O’Toole has all the goods and is in position to take The Leap but 165 is a meat grinder with multiple national champions and I would take odds for the field because that’s how these things go *especially* at 165 recently.

Would you take any specific individual (other than Lee) over O’Toole?

[nhs67]

There are methods of measurements used in determining the Hodge winner - a formula, as it were.  It is precisely why Lee is actually only supposed to be a 1x Hodge recipient.  Steveson won it fair and square, the committee stepped in, unfairly.

Domination is a determining factor.  That means the more bonus the better.  That is why O'Toole should be the clear #1 if Lee wrestles a shortened season - if he finishes undefeated.  His style lends itself to bonus point output more than the rest, aside for Brooks.

In reality it will likely come down to Brooks anf O'Toole if Lee is on a pitch count.

[1032004]

28 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

There are methods of measurements used in determining the Hodge winner - a formula, as it were.  It is precisely why Lee is actually only supposed to be a 1x Hodge recipient.  Steveson won it fair and square, the committee stepped in, unfairly.

Domination is a determining factor.  That means the more bonus the better.  That is why O'Toole should be the clear #1 if Lee wrestles a shortened season - if he finishes undefeated.  His style lends itself to bonus point output more than the rest, aside for Brooks.

In reality it will likely come down to Brooks anf O'Toole if Lee is on a pitch count.

How did Steveson win it fair and square?  He only wrestled 5 more matches than Lee, had a lower bonus rate and less pins (1 vs 5).  The NCAA finals was Lee’s only match without bonus.

Edited November 24, 2022 by 1032004

[nhs67]

3 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

How did Steveson win it fair and square?  He only wrestled 5 more matches than Lee, had a lower bonus rate and less pins (1 vs 5).  The NCAA finals was Lee’s only match without bonus.

Just going off what Askren said on FRL many moons ago.  He said he found out that Steveson ended up winning the vote and it gave him the separation criteria to win.

Whether or not folks care to admit it, Askren would be much more in the know on this than the average bbs keyboard warrior is.

Edited November 24, 2022 by nhs67