John Smith, did he go with Gable in the room?

[AgaveMaria]

John Smith was excellence on the mat. Training focus was every bit as intense as Dan Gable.

Did Smith ever go with Gable in the room? Like Gable did with so many of his Iowa wrestlers of varying weights?

 

[Scouts Honor]

gable was old by the time smith was in college 

but it maybe could have happened

[11986]

Randy Lewis wrote that Gable beat him 50-4 in a room match in 1989. Not saying that means anything on how a hypothetical room scrap with Smith might have gone, but does suggest that Gable could still go in the room when Smith was on his run. 

 

[Scouts Honor]

true , i remembered that, but didn't realize it was 89...lewis was at iowa earlier... but would he have been in the same room with smith? not sure when gable coached world teams... if smith was on them... possibly.

 

 

[11986]

from dangable.com

'Gable also served as head coach of the World Team in 1977, 1978, 1979, 1983, 1994 and 1999' 

so doesn't look like Dan was ever head coach when John was on the team. Of course doesn't rule out going in the room somewhere along the way.   

[ionel]

Don't know but this might be a useful data point:

https://m.facebook.com/FloWrestling/videos/mark-munoz-on-the-time-john-smith-beat-up-pat-smith/1789371254450035/?wtsid=rdr_09Orry3bn8adSieeZ

[LJB]

uncle john is the only person in my adult life who actually intimidated me the first time i ever met him...

he is a different kind of psycho...

 

[Formally140]

1 hour ago, LJB said:

uncle john is the only person in my adult life who actually intimidated me the first time i ever met him...

he is a different kind of psycho...

 

EVERYONE I know who knows him says similar things. 

[mspart]

1 hour ago, ionel said:

Don't know but this might be a useful data point:

https://m.facebook.com/FloWrestling/videos/mark-munoz-on-the-time-john-smith-beat-up-pat-smith/1789371254450035/?wtsid=rdr_09Orry3bn8adSieeZ

At the end Munoz says John Smith would wrestle Eric Guerrero and looked bored while doing so after Eric had won a National championship.   So apparently he rolled around with the guys.  They are probably too much for him anymore. 

mspart

[mspart]

There must be an intensity to him that no one sees.  

mspart

[Formally140]

9 minutes ago, mspart said:

At the end Munoz says John Smith would wrestle Eric Guerrero and looked bored while doing so after Eric had won a National championship.   So apparently he rolled around with the guys.  They are probably too much for him anymore. 

mspart

The story I was told, Guerrero made the Olympic team. And Smith took him down teched him on guts after winking at a person who was watching

8 minutes ago, mspart said:

There must be an intensity to him that no one sees.  

mspart

I’ve found a lot of the not “Brands” like coaches are often even more intense once you get to know them. 
Quiet intensity doesn’t mean less intensity 

[LJB]

4 minutes ago, Formally140 said:

The story I was told, Guerrero made the Olympic team. And Smith took him down teched him on guts after winking at a person who was watching

i have had guerrero try and big dik me at tourney... 

it was equal parts ridiculous and hysterical...

the boy was standing right next to us and he was like WTF is going on... 

i just gave the boy a wink and continued to breath straight in his guerrero's ear while he was being guerrero...

absolutely nothing intimidating about it at all...

i would have melted into a puddle of piss if uncle john had some anything near like that...

i have hung out with and partied with world champion road racers, wrestlers, and fighters...

hung out and partied with all sorts of other legitimately bad men...

all psychos in their own right...

none of them are quite like uncle john...

 

 

[Formally140]

13 minutes ago, LJB said:

i have had guerrero try and big dik me at tourney... 

it was equal parts ridiculous and hysterical...

the boy was standing right next to us and he was like WTF is going on... 

i just gave the boy a wink and continued to breath straight in his guerrero's ear while he was being guerrero...

absolutely nothing intimidating about it at all...

i would have melted into a puddle of piss if uncle john had some anything near like that...

i have hung out with and partied with world champion road racers, wrestlers, and fighters...

hung out and partied with all sorts of other legitimately bad men...

all psychos in their own right...

none of them are quite like uncle john...

 

 

I was agreeing with you and that matches what I’ve heard about Gerrero 

[mspart]

I have a friend who has been around Mark Schultz and Rulon Gardner.   He said they were both crazy a little. 

mspart

[LJB]

2 minutes ago, Formally140 said:

I was agreeing with you and that matches what I’ve heard about Gerrero 

i know...

i was just telling a story...

[LJB]

1 minute ago, mspart said:

I have a friend who has been around Mark Schultz and Rulon Gardner.   He said they were both crazy a little. 

mspart

i have hung out with rulon...

i have shit talked rulon...

yessir nosir with uncle john...

[ionel]

47 minutes ago, mspart said:

At the end Munoz says John Smith would wrestle Eric Guerrero and looked bored while doing so after Eric had won a National championship.   So apparently he rolled around with the guys.  They are probably too much for him anymore. 

mspart

Pretty sure this was after Pat had won 4 and Pat was several weight classes above John.  I think that says a lot more than the EG thing.

[11986]

1 hour ago, mspart said:

There must be an intensity to him that no one sees.  

mspart

That dude shoots daggers with his eyes man. To me he’s always had that quiet but cocky and I will back it up thing. 
 

does anyone else recall mention of John getting the better of Kolat around time of the 2000 Olympics? Vague recall of a post on the old forums way back. 

Edited June 21, 2023 by 11986

[jchapman]

Love the Uncle John stories, keep’em coming.  He was THE MAN when I came of wrestling age in junior high and high school.   Not surprised to hear that he is crazy intense, he’s one of the greatest wrestlers ever. To be that historically dominant you will have traits that almost no one else has.

Edited June 21, 2023 by jchapman

[Scouts Honor]

5 hours ago, 11986 said:

That dude shoots daggers with his eyes man. To me he’s always had that quiet but cocky and I will back it up thing. 
 

does anyone else recall mention of John getting the better of Kolat around time of the 2000 Olympics? Vague recall of a post on the old forums way back. 

love to hear this story

[fishbane]

I wouldn't think Gable could get the better of Smith back when Smith was winning world/Olympic titles.  Before the 2004 Olympics Jamill Kelly said he beat John Smith in a match in the room.  Maybe Gable could get the better of a 2004-present John Smith.

"Does John Smith still wrestle with the guys in practice? Does he go live at all?

Kelly: When I first got to school there, he wrestled with us a lot. He'll drill with the guys occasionally. The last time me and him wrestled was when I made the Olympic team. He kind of called me out, so we hooked it up a little bit.

How did that go?

Kelly: Um … I won. He probably won't admit to it. But, you know, I won. He was good at really getting the intensity out of me sometimes. You get with the guys in practice, a lot of them, you get to kind of have your way with them, and you know exactly what they're going to do. So, sometimes he would go with me, just because he knew how he could bring another level out of me. He came up to me, just a random day at practice, and was like, 'I know that I could have made the (Olympic) team in 96 and 2000. Now I'm going to see if I could have made the team in 2004. I kind of looked at him like, 'I can't believe you just said that to me.' But he knew that would get kind of a rise out of me and bring my intensity level up. Just little things like that, I think is what makes him a great coach. He knows how to bring that out in each individual."

[fishbane]

On 6/20/2023 at 6:21 PM, 11986 said:

Randy Lewis wrote that Gable beat him 50-4 in a room match in 1989. Not saying that means anything on how a hypothetical room scrap with Smith might have gone, but does suggest that Gable could still go in the room when Smith was on his run. 

 

The version I found said the match was in 1991.  He also said this was a 45-minute match and that he had scored the first 4 points.  54 points over 45 minutes is only 1.2 points per minute of wrestling.  That is assuming a flat consistent rate of scoring.  That probably wasn't the case.  Perhaps Gable wore Lewis down over the 45 minutes and scored more at the end of the time than the early stages.  Or perhaps being in his 40s, Gable's pace slowed in the later stages and most of the points were scored early.  In any case I think a 6-minute match could be on a knife edge vs a 54-4 blowout. This was also 3 years removed and a weight up from the Lewis-Smith best of three for the 1988 Olympic team spot.

The former world champion he beat in 1991, Budaev, only represented Russia once at the world championships.  It was the year refereced (1989) when Fadzaev bumped up and lost in the final to Monday. Budaev would have been 34 years old in 1991.

Quote

 

Gable: The Punisher

It was 1972. I first heard of Dan Gable when I was in 7th grade. People told me that he was the best wrestler in the world. Nobody could beat him. At the time, I was a three-time state AAU age-group champion, and a national AAU age-group champion. My career record at the time was 60-0. I remember thinking, if I was as big as Dan Gable, I could beat him.

Nineteen years later, I would find out I was wrong. In 1991, I was thirty years old and I wrestled at 149.5 pounds, the same weight-class that Gable won the Olympics (without giving up a single point!) in 1972.

I wrestled a dual meet against the 1989 world champion Russian, Boris Budaev. I was pounding him 13-4 and ended up sticking him. One week later, I asked Gable if he wanted to wrestle. At the time Gable weighed about 160 and was 41 years old. I was up to about 163. Gable said yes but wanted to warm up a bit. I just sat there and watched him. Gable went through a 45-minute session of drilling and stretching, moving around, getting ready to tangle with yours truly.

By this time his shirt was drenched. He was ready to go to war. I warmed up in about 30 seconds. I slapped his hand and asked him if he was ready. Gable said, ?go? and I jumped across the mat and threw him with what I would call a Steven Segal-type judo throw and headlock. He went right to his back.

Two seconds later, Gable scored a reversal. For the next forty-five minutes he tortured me. What he likes to do is put you on your back, bar your arm and torture you. Then he will sort of let you off your back, but he will keep the bar arm with just your shoulder down. Sort of like isometrics, only diabolical. Finally, he will let you go and when you get back on your feet, you can barely feel your right arm.

Then, he?ll take you down again and start on your left shoulder. Pain must balance. When you finally get back on your feet both shoulders are numb. Your arms are useless. Death is a fleeting moment away.

After that ?workout? somebody asked me how I did against Gable. I said ?Oh, he beat me about 50-5.? They said ?no way.? I said ?way.? Actually the score was 50-4!

 

[fishbane]

On 6/20/2023 at 6:21 PM, 11986 said:

Randy Lewis wrote that Gable beat him 50-4 in a room match in 1989. Not saying that means anything on how a hypothetical room scrap with Smith might have gone, but does suggest that Gable could still go in the room when Smith was on his run. 

 

The version I found said the match was in 1991.  He also said this was a 45-minute match and that he had scored the first 4 points.  50 points over 45 minutes is only 1.11 points per minute of wrestling.  That is assuming a flat consistent rate of scoring.  That probably wasn't the case.  Perhaps Gable wore Lewis down over the 45 minutes and scored more at the end of the time than the early stages.  Or perhaps being in his 40s, Gable's pace slowed in the later stages and most of the points were scored early.  In any case I think a 6-minute match could be on a knife edge vs a 50-4 blowout. This was also 3 years removed and a weight up from the Lewis-Smith best of three for the 1988 Olympic team spot.

The former world champion he beat in 1991, Budaev, only represented Russia once at the world championships.  It was the year refereced (1989) when Fadzaev bumped up and lost in the final to Monday. Budaev would have been 34 years old in 1991.

Quote

 

Gable: The Punisher

It was 1972. I first heard of Dan Gable when I was in 7th grade. People told me that he was the best wrestler in the world. Nobody could beat him. At the time, I was a three-time state AAU age-group champion, and a national AAU age-group champion. My career record at the time was 60-0. I remember thinking, if I was as big as Dan Gable, I could beat him.

Nineteen years later, I would find out I was wrong. In 1991, I was thirty years old and I wrestled at 149.5 pounds, the same weight-class that Gable won the Olympics (without giving up a single point!) in 1972.

I wrestled a dual meet against the 1989 world champion Russian, Boris Budaev. I was pounding him 13-4 and ended up sticking him. One week later, I asked Gable if he wanted to wrestle. At the time Gable weighed about 160 and was 41 years old. I was up to about 163. Gable said yes but wanted to warm up a bit. I just sat there and watched him. Gable went through a 45-minute session of drilling and stretching, moving around, getting ready to tangle with yours truly.

By this time his shirt was drenched. He was ready to go to war. I warmed up in about 30 seconds. I slapped his hand and asked him if he was ready. Gable said, ?go? and I jumped across the mat and threw him with what I would call a Steven Segal-type judo throw and headlock. He went right to his back.

Two seconds later, Gable scored a reversal. For the next forty-five minutes he tortured me. What he likes to do is put you on your back, bar your arm and torture you. Then he will sort of let you off your back, but he will keep the bar arm with just your shoulder down. Sort of like isometrics, only diabolical. Finally, he will let you go and when you get back on your feet, you can barely feel your right arm.

Then, he?ll take you down again and start on your left shoulder. Pain must balance. When you finally get back on your feet both shoulders are numb. Your arms are useless. Death is a fleeting moment away.

After that ?workout? somebody asked me how I did against Gable. I said ?Oh, he beat me about 50-5.? They said ?no way.? I said ?way.? Actually the score was 50-4!

 

[11986]

You’re correct Fishbane, I misread that, the Lewis/Gable ‘match’ does look like it was in ‘91 not ‘89. And agree a real match probably a lot closer vs an extremely long go in the room. But does show Gable wasn’t physically shot just yet. 

[billyhoyle]

You're all right to fear him. John Smith isn't actually his real name. He took that alias while using the bathroom at Smith's roadhouse in Oklahoma.  His real name is Keyser Soze.  

Edited June 26, 2023 by billyhoyle