Iowa vs Penn State head to head next season

[VakAttack]

48 minutes ago, BLT said:

PSU is winning everything but 125 and 141 and those are not Iowa locks. The transfers from this off season for Iowa are not going to do a whole lot for them in this matchup. PSU has far superior recruited talent and really transfers Nagao, Truax and Messenbrink are superior as well. 

If Ayala wrestles Gary Steen I'm willing to bet you any amount of money on that match up.

 

Iowa could win 149, 157, and 165.  I'm not sure why I'm supposed to be writing Messenbrink in pen over either Caliendo or Kennedy.  Iowa is also alive at HWT.

[ionel]

3 hours ago, VakAttack said:

If Ayala wrestles Gary Steen I'm willing to bet you any amount of money on that match up.

 

Iowa could win 149, 157, and 165.  I'm not sure why I'm supposed to be writing Messenbrink in pen over either Caliendo or Kennedy.  Iowa is also alive at HWT.

I'll wager 5 million CB.

[Bardamu911]

On 6/19/2023 at 7:21 PM, Husker_Du said:

3) i'm on pins and needles with the gambling thing.

what's this mean?

[MPhillips]

4 minutes ago, Bardamu911 said:

what's this mean?

Guys got caught gambling. Waiting to see what the punishment is.

[Jamie_Taco]

On 6/25/2023 at 1:30 PM, BLT said:

Hypothetical discussion of any team vs PSU is a complete waste of time. 

LOL this is a message board. It's all a complete waste of time.

[ionel]

2 hours ago, Jamie_Taco said:

LOL this is a message board. It's all a complete waste of time.

Say it ain't so Taco!  

[wrestlingest2010]

The dual can be interesting especially if Iowa adds Gable. Even more if they have Ferrari (without him, Brooks would tech fall whoever they send at 197 with 3 point takedowns)

Iowa would be favored at 125, 141, 285. 165 you have to say them but obviously a lot of that depends on how Mesenbrink looks (I think damn good)

After that, they would just need one more upset to split 5-5 and Franek over Haines wouldn't be considered a huge one at all, especially in Carver.

There are like so many moving parts:

1. Who's suspended for Iowa? 

2. Can they feasibly add Ferrari on the roster? (I say no for next year)

3. Is Gable really going there? 

4. Is Ayala healthy? He just got another shoudler surgery. 

5. Does Cael go all in next year? If he senses Mesenbrink prefers 157 and is doing better than Levi, he can just redshirt Levi. 

 

[headshuck]

If you say “There’s no HWT like Gable in Iowa” 3 times while Tom Brands kicks his heels together, it will come true.

[ionel]

39 minutes ago, headshuck said:

If you say “There’s no HWT like Gable in Iowa” 3 times while Tom Brands kicks his heels together, it will come true.

[wrestlingest2010]

On 6/25/2023 at 1:16 PM, VakAttack said:

If Ayala wrestles Gary Steen I'm willing to bet you any amount of money on that match up.

 

Iowa could win 149, 157, and 165.  I'm not sure why I'm supposed to be writing Messenbrink in pen over either Caliendo or Kennedy.  Iowa is also alive at HWT.

I agree with your analysis (I think Ayala would tech fall him off takedowns since he isn't much of a turner I don't think) but there is no scenario Gary Steen is PSU's 125 next year IMO. Even if Howard isn't healthy, McHenry is significantly superior to him. I think Cael would borderline consider wrestling a freshman (Nasdeo, Davis) over Steen with how bad Steen looked last year. 

[scourge165]

On 6/21/2023 at 10:13 AM, VakAttack said:

I would say that Haines-Franek is a semi tossup, but I would say it should be a lean Haines given his youth and upward trajectory.

Re:  AJ, I just disagree.  Again, we're talking in a hypothetical world where he can healthily make 197; I agree with you I don't think that's reality.  But if he were able to make it, he could definitely beat Brooks.  People are using the Taylor matches to talk about size disparity, but Ferrari, even in his college seasons, was WAY bigger than Taylor is now.  Combine this with Ferrari's obvious athleticism and Brooks' lack of dynamic offense (as in he's not putting a bunch of points on high level opponents in general) and I could easily see Ferrari in this hypothetical scenario winning.

The other thing I would say is that people are making a lot of assumptions about Mesenbrink.  The kid is obviously a huge talent, but who is his biggest win?  I'm not saying it's impossible that he's a title contender right out of the gate (although I'd say it's extremely unlikely if he's at 165), or even a surefire AA.  I don't think it's reasonable to pencil him in above Kennedy or Caliendo without seeing him do some stuff at the college level first.  He's a talent, but he's not Meyer Shapiro.

His biggest win? I guess I'd say Levi Haines the summer before Haines took a Silver at the Worlds(so last year). He beat Haines 2 straight.

I think he's every bit the talent Meyer Shapiro is. I don't think it's an assumption. It's from teching Paniro Johnson and just the style of Wrestling, the non-stop relentless aggression. If he does go 165, it's gonna be tough for him to win it, but I definitely think he's on Shapiro's level. I think you're wrong about that.

At 157, I think he wins it next year, at '65 I think it's just a long shot he's gonna beat both Carr and O'Toole...but 

 

As for AJ and Brooks...IF Ferrari in some world makes 97 and he were to Wrestle him on Sat Night(the Glory plan)...in this alternate reality where he's not on trial for serious felonies and he is close to making 197, I could see him beating Brooks. I'd take Brooks, but it wouldn't shock me to see Brooks lose that one.

[scourge165]

On 6/19/2023 at 2:59 PM, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

125 Ayala dec Steen 3-0

133 Nagao dec Teske 3-3

141 Woods dec Bartlett 6-3

149 Van Ness dec Voinivich 6-6

157 Franek dec Haines 9-6

165 Kennedy dec Messenbtink 12-6

174 Starocci dec Brands 12-9

184 Truax dec Calliendo 12-12

197 AJ Ferrari dec Brooks 15-12

HWT Kerk dec Cass. 15-15 TIE.  (If Steveson, Steveon MAJ Cass. 19-12 Iowa wins.)

Jimmy just...doing Jimmy things.

125-Ayala dec Howard 3-0(Toss up)
133-Nagao dec Teske 3-3
141-Woods dec Bartlett 6-3
149-Van Ness Dec Voinivich 6-6
157-Haines Dec Franek-6-9
165-Messenbrink Maj Kennedy 6-13
174-Starocci Maj Brands 6-17
184-Truax Dec Calliendo 6-20
197-Brooks maj dec any realistic, none fantastical option 6-24
HWT-Kerk dec Cass 6-27

I think 125-141 are toss up's. I think the new rules hurt Nagao just a bit, but he'll adjust. He was just so good at Wrestling smart on his feet, maybe giving up a TD, but then getting out and then punishing guys on top without actually turning. But he was also a Freshmen.

141-Batlett just keeps improving. Woods was the best in the weight last year(not the champ, but IMO, the best overall). 

I think Howard could easily win, but he hasn't Wrestled and he's finally gotten that shoulder properly repaired.

I think the 3 point TDs are going to help the guys like Brooks and Starocci. I think they're REALLY gonna help a kid like Messenbrink who will shoot 45 times a match. 

Haines is a guy I think will just keep getting better. 

I just don't see this being all that close.

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

On 6/25/2023 at 4:16 PM, VakAttack said:

If Ayala wrestles Gary Steen I'm willing to bet you any amount of money on that match up.

 

Iowa could win 149, 157, and 165.  I'm not sure why I'm supposed to be writing Messenbrink in pen over either Caliendo or Kennedy.  Iowa is also alive at HWT.

Steen is like 3-30 in his college dual career. Picking any Big 10 starter over him isn't exactly going out on a limb.

[Le duke]

On 6/19/2023 at 7:54 PM, hawkguy said:

Having a close match with someone he practices with every day doesn't mean he will beat woods or alirez. Hell I'm still waiting to see if he could even beat brock hardy

He also beat NCAA champ Anthony Ashnault and Final X participant Evan Henderson in the same tournament. Both of those guys are better than Woods. 

[Le duke]

On 6/25/2023 at 2:16 PM, VakAttack said:

If Ayala wrestles Gary Steen I'm willing to bet you any amount of money on that match up.

 

Iowa could win 149, 157, and 165.  I'm not sure why I'm supposed to be writing Messenbrink in pen over either Caliendo or Kennedy.  Iowa is also alive at HWT.

 

Sure, but we're talking likely scenarios. Aaron Brooks could slip on a banana peel thrown by a nefarious cartoon character in the tunnel at CHA and injury default next year and have to MF to Glazier. But the most likely scenario is he beats the brakes off of Glazier.

Similarly, I will take the guy who beat multiple AAs en route to placing 3rd over the guy who went 17-13 and never had a top-10 win. I'll take the guy who took 2nd as an 18 year old over the Iowa 6th year who took 4th.

[wrestlingest2010]

People who are downplaying Beau Bartlett's free results are forgetting he wrestled free last summer also and didn't look anywhere near this good.

He took Ls to D'Emilio, Lovett (getting blanked) at U23s. He did tech Kolodzik but that was a backside win, I am a believer in taking those with a grain of salt at the senior level. 

This summer, he beat Henderson, Parker (all legit senior guys on the winner side) and lost to Nick Lee controversially. 

I think Bartlett's issue is he will always struggle a bit against length but so many people downplayed his ability to AA even at 141 saying the weight drop alone isn't going to help him at all.

[wrestlingest2010]

Also - yes, I am okay taking a wait and see approach with Mesenbrink. His folk results senior year of HS weren't elite and his freshman year folk results at Cal Baptist were nonexistent basically. Go ahead and pencil him in as a non qualifier right now if you even want or Facundo's backup. Hell, maybe he'll be a career room guy who focuses on free (like Mason Manville)

That being said, nonPSU fans hoping he's going to be average in folk might be setting themselves up for disappointment.

[Wrestleknownothing]

31 minutes ago, wrestlingest2010 said:

People who are downplaying Beau Bartlett's free results are forgetting he wrestled free last summer also and didn't look anywhere near this good.

He took Ls to D'Emilio, Lovett (getting blanked) at U23s. He did tech Kolodzik but that was a backside win, I am a believer in taking those with a grain of salt at the senior level. 

This summer, he beat Henderson, Parker (all legit senior guys on the winner side) and lost to Nick Lee controversially. 

I think Bartlett's issue is he will always struggle a bit against length but so many people downplayed his ability to AA even at 141 saying the weight drop alone isn't going to help him at all.

Confusingly perhaps, but not controversially.

[hawkguy]

11 hours ago, Le duke said:

He also beat NCAA champ Anthony Ashnault and Final X participant Evan Henderson in the same tournament. Both of those guys are better than Woods. 

That's freestyle... both of those guys destroy him in folk

[Le duke]

That's freestyle... both of those guys destroy him in folk

Do they? Because BB hasn’t been bonused at 141 by anyone, ever. Has given up back points zero times in college. Neither of those guys beat people up on top, either.

Evan Henderson was a 2x AA whose best finish was 4th at 141.

Ashnault went 8th, 4th and 6th at 141.

So, if he’s better from neutral and has little to fear on bottom, I kind of doubt that either of them destroy him in folk.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hawkguy]

9 hours ago, Le duke said:

Do they? Because BB hasn’t been bonused at 141 by anyone, ever. Has given up back points zero times in college. Neither of those guys beat people up on top, either.

Evan Henderson was a 2x AA whose best finish was 4th at 141.

Ashnault went 8th, 4th and 6th at 141.

So, if he’s better from neutral and has little to fear on bottom, I kind of doubt that either of them destroy him in folk.


Sent from my iPhone using 

Ashnault wrestled in fields that were far better than the one bartlett took 3rd in, and has much better wins. Bartlett isn't winning in folk. I'll concede that he could beat Henderson in folk. But still a tossup

[ionel]

On 6/25/2023 at 2:30 PM, BLT said:

Hypothetical discussion of any team vs PSU is a complete waste of time. 

But can we talk about the camel mat & hats?  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Gus]

10 hours ago, Le duke said:

Do they? Because BB hasn’t been bonused at 141 by anyone, ever. Has given up back points zero times in college. Neither of those guys beat people up on top, either.

Evan Henderson was a 2x AA whose best finish was 4th at 141.

Ashnault went 8th, 4th and 6th at 141.

So, if he’s better from neutral and has little to fear on bottom, I kind of doubt that either of them destroy him in folk.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

10 hours ago, Le duke said:

Do they? Because BB hasn’t been bonused at 141 by anyone, ever. Has given up back points zero times in college. Neither of those guys beat people up on top, either.

Evan Henderson was a 2x AA whose best finish was 4th at 141.

Ashnault went 8th, 4th and 6th at 141.

So, if he’s better from neutral and has little to fear on bottom, I kind of doubt that either of them destroy him in folk.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So if I am following this correctly... BB beat Hendo and Ashnault in freestyle -- both of which are "better than Woods".

BB may even be able to beat both of these wrestlers in folkstyle... 

Woods beat BB convincingly in folkstyle and won the takedown battle..

Therefore.. somehow.... Woods is the worst of this group of guys?

[wrestlingest2010]

Woods is the favorite next year, I think even if Bartlett jumps levels, Woods length (in addition to his massive skillset obviously) will always put Bartlett at a major disadvantage. 

I'm okay with saying Hardy should be above Bartlett to start but I think Hardy's style is something Bartlett can adjust to. The Bartlett that wrestled at US Open doesn't lose to Hardy though, I'd bet a ton on that.