To derail the PSU train Iowa needs a big shakeup at the top

[ionel]

15 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

As a wrestler probably but does Cael really have much of a "coaching tree" yet?   

Isn't Cael simply a small branch off the Art Griffith tree?

[Antitroll2828]

12 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

As a wrestler probably but does Cael really have much of a "coaching tree" yet?   Which of course the lack of one IMO is partly due to the success his wrestlers continue to have on the senior level. 

Molinaro spent 3 years on the staff , I believe his plan is to become a head coach sooner rather then later  he’s the only one I can think of from caels PSU time currently in a paid coaching position…After that I think mark hall would be next up 

[bnwtwg]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

As a wrestler probably but does Cael really have much of a "coaching tree" yet?   Which of course the lack of one IMO is partly due to the success his wrestlers continue to have on the senior level. 

The better view would be of the Steve Sanderson coaching tree. Some of the greatest hits off the top of my head would be his sons Cael and Cody are doing pretty good in the coaching realm in their respective positions. Cole and Cyler coach the family wrestling academy in Utah. Steve also trained David Taylor from a young age then rejoined Cael at PSU and heads a very strong kids academy. Varner isn't quite an apples to apples since he trained with Cael before transitioning to coaching, but I think if he ever chooses to move to a new RTC that he will have great success. I really think that Steve Sanderson is on par with the Dan Gables and Bill Walshes when it comes to legacy.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 minute ago, bnwtwg said:

The better view would be of the Steve Sanderson coaching tree. Some of the greatest hits off the top of my head would be his sons Cael and Cody are doing pretty good in the coaching realm in their respective positions. Cole and Cyler coach the family wrestling academy in Utah. Steve also trained David Taylor from a young age then rejoined Cael at PSU and heads a very strong kids academy. Varner isn't quite an apples to apples since he trained with Cael before transitioning to coaching, but I think if he ever chooses to move to a new RTC that he will have great success. I really think that Steve Sanderson is on par with the Dan Gables and Bill Walshes when it comes to legacy.

Huh?  It is pretty much one school with (amazing) success,  A tree branches out.

[pokemonster]

8 hours ago, scourge165 said:

I've been saying Ohio State is the most likely place for it to happen, and it's require a David Taylor(hometown hero, seems like he's got the personality for coaching) and then add that 2nd dynamic coach. I'd been thinking Dake, but Snyder would be brilliant.

The 3rd, it's more important how he fits than anything.

 

Ohio has enough in-state talent and tOSU has the program and the facilities to get this done.

JB's another guy I've thought of, but I was trying to line up program and athlete and some connection. Not sure Nebraska could do it. JB is from NJ. Of course he could coach anywhere as it's not like Cael's from Penn, just think it'd help a coach like Taylor(or Snyder) hit the ground running to return in-state either from HS or College.

 

But yes, it would appear PSU is the team for the next 5-6 years at least. I could see him stepping back and Cunningham stepping in at some point as well...and PSU not losing a step.

Would love to see this, bring David Taylor in as a big name assistant as soon as he's ramping down his own athletic career in hopes of him taking over. I think it's more likely he joins up with Cael and continues with PSU though, especially with his M2 Training Center already established nearby in PA. 

[dragit]

Penn State's coaches seem to be able to get great development out of a variety of different personalities and styles of wrestlers from each other and from the coaches. 

Something that just struck me is that the one real substantial example in recent years of an Iowa wrestler developing and posting a big NCAA result well over his recruiting ranking has the same last name as the coaches.   Make what you will of that.  

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

7 minutes ago, dragit said:

Penn State's coaches seem to be able to get great development out of a variety of different personalities and styles of wrestlers from each other and from the coaches. 

Something that just struck me is that the one real substantial example in recent years of an Iowa wrestler developing and posting a big NCAA result well over his recruiting ranking has the same last name as the coaches.   Make what you will of that.  

Nelson Brands

[scourge165]

On 4/27/2023 at 10:52 AM, pokemonster said:

Would love to see this, bring David Taylor in as a big name assistant as soon as he's ramping down his own athletic career in hopes of him taking over. I think it's more likely he joins up with Cael and continues with PSU though, especially with his M2 Training Center already established nearby in PA. 

Don't go shitting on a good idea with "logic" and how "realistic" it is!

[scourge165]

On 4/27/2023 at 11:56 AM, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Nelson Brands

Did....did ya think we weren't gonna be able to piece that together?

 

Oh, there's not two Murin's coaching the Hawkeyes! My GOD we'd be lost with Jimmy. 

[Ivan Stankowski]

This is how to derail the train. 

[Offthemat]

Being as many teams are populated by mostly in-state athletes, maybe the challenge is at the bottom, not the top.  

[1032004]

4 hours ago, Ivan Stankowski said:

This is how to derail the train. 

Except AWA is now sending guys to PSU…or are you suggesting it’s a Trojan Horse operation?

[scorenomore]

On 4/26/2023 at 7:18 AM, AcadiaPines said:

Cael is a very charismatic leader, and posseses outstanding vision and determination. Casey and Cody fit perfectly with Cael and the result is a synergy of coaching talent currently unmatched. They are now situated in a setting of resources that will continue to buoy them at the top of their trade.

Anyone seeking to match their attributes will need to take a wholistic approach. The importance of obtaining a complete combination of charisma, coaching skills, vision, determination, appropriate assistants, and resources cannot be overstated.

A daunting task, but thinking out loud, I see something like this required:

Head coach: JB

1st Assistant: Kyle Snyder

2nd assistant: the new/recent version of Thomas Gilman

A top flight RTC is a must!

RTC Head coach: (pay what it takes):  Pejman Dorostkar (likely impossible, but you get the point.)

Ample financial resources and institutional athletic hunger for and commitment to success a must. Location withen regional high school wrestling excellence is a huge plus, but may not be necessary.

Would Iowa be willing to veer from recent traditions to make this sort of retooling?

Perhaps an Ohio State? I dont think Nebraska has the wrestling gravitas to pull it off.

Or would some rich alumni/entrepreneur from a sports crazed institution like a Clemson or Alabama take on the challenge as a crusade to unseat the king?

In any event, Cael's hugely successful enterprise will roll on into the forseeable future as long as he stays committed. 

 

 

I

I'm sorry, but where in the world did you come up with Cael is a charismatic leader?  Cael is the about as far opposite of a charismatic leader as there can be.  He is a great person and knows wrestling better than anyone, but a charismatic leader he is not.

Unseating PSU will start after the 2024 Olympic trials.  Some school will pay big money for Taylor, Burroughs or Dake.  I think the only one that will have a real shot at defeating PSU is Taylor.  He is an upper weight, long, lengthy and has done an amazing job with his M2 program.  

[gimpeltf]

6 hours ago, scorenomore said:

I'm sorry, but where in the world did you come up with Cael is a charismatic leader?  Cael is the about as far opposite of a charismatic leader as there can be.  He is a great person and knows wrestling better than anyone, but a charismatic leader he is not.

Unseating PSU will start after the 2024 Olympic trials.  Some school will pay big money for Taylor, Burroughs or Dake.  I think the only one that will have a real shot at defeating PSU is Taylor.  He is an upper weight, long, lengthy and has done an amazing job with his M2 program.  

???

Did it occur to you that drawing as many top kids as they do (even pre-NIL) shows that apparently he is quite charismatic? Perhaps not to a crowd but one on one.

[pokemonster]

4 hours ago, gimpeltf said:

???

Did it occur to you that drawing as many top kids as they do (even pre-NIL) shows that apparently he is quite charismatic? Perhaps not to a crowd but one on one.

I'd have to agree with scorenomore here based on all accounts of Cael... Charismatic just isn't the word. He's more of a lead-by-example, quiet determination that commands respect and admiration from everyone he's around. He genuinely cares for his athletes and he's able to build strong connections because of it. I don't think he's the traditional charismatic leader. 

[gimpeltf]

12 minutes ago, pokemonster said:

I'd have to agree with scorenomore here based on all accounts of Cael... Charismatic just isn't the word. He's more of a lead-by-example, quiet determination that commands respect and admiration from everyone he's around. He genuinely cares for his athletes and he's able to build strong connections because of it. I don't think he's the traditional charismatic leader. 

You have defined charismatic here. 
 

exercising a compelling charm which inspires devotion in others.

"a charismatic leader"

[scorenomore]

16 hours ago, gimpeltf said:

???

Did it occur to you that drawing as many top kids as they do (even pre-NIL) shows that apparently he is quite charismatic? Perhaps not to a crowd but one on one.

I’ve spoken with parents of recruits that have spent time with him. He is the same as what you see on camera and on the mat.  
Elite people don’t need to be led by charismatic leaders, they have all the drive they need. It’s the education that they desire, in the case of Cael he is writing the book on wrestling!

[gimpeltf]

2 minutes ago, scorenomore said:

I’ve spoken with parents of recruits that have spent time with him. He is the same as what you see on camera and on the mat.  
Elite people don’t need to be led by charismatic leaders, they have all the drive they need. It’s the education that they desire, in the case of Cael he is writing the book on wrestling!

And I've heard that he's very different alone- he has a sense of humor, etc. If elite people don't need leaders, why do some super teams fail and some work (think Phil Jackson)?

Again, it's quite evident that he attracts kids- that in and of itself is charisma- whether or not you think he's a fun guy or not.

[pokemonster]

8 hours ago, gimpeltf said:

And I've heard that he's very different alone- he has a sense of humor, etc. If elite people don't need leaders, why do some super teams fail and some work (think Phil Jackson)?

Again, it's quite evident that he attracts kids- that in and of itself is charisma- whether or not you think he's a fun guy or not.

At this point, it's just semantics over the definition of charisma. He isn't charismatic in the traditional sense i.e. outspoken, infectious and amiable personality, etc , but if you take the definition of his ability to inspire others through some compelling charm, then I agree he fits that description. 

[AcadiaPines]

On 5/2/2023 at 5:24 AM, pokemonster said:

At this point, it's just semantics over the definition of charisma. He isn't charismatic in the traditional sense i.e. outspoken, infectious and amiable personality, etc , but if you take the definition of his ability to inspire others through some compelling charm, then I agree he fits that description. 

It appears your discussing charismatic style. Charisma is defined by the effect it achieves. Charismatic style is a unique attribute of one who has charisma. Vince Lombardi was considered charismatic by most, yet his charismatic style was very different from Caels.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

7 minutes ago, AcadiaPines said:

It appears your discussing charismatic style. Charisma is defined by the effect it achieves. Charismatic style is a unique attribute of one who has charisma. Vince Lombardi was considered charismatic by most, yet his charismatic style was very different from Caels.

Cael is slightly closer to Bill Bellichick, but not as grumpy.  

Most of the good players during his years with the Giants described BB as "cool" and "funny," as well a being a walking encyclopedia.  You rarely saw the cool, funny stuff during press conferences.  I think he also has a very dry sense of humor, which seems to be probably be the case for Cael as well.

[Wrestleknownothing]

2 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Cael is slightly closer to Bill Bellichick, but not as grumpy.  

Most of the good players during his years with the Giants described BB as "cool" and "funny," as well a being a walking encyclopedia.  You rarely saw the cool, funny stuff during press conferences.  I think he also has a very dry sense of humor, which seems to be probably be the case for Cael as well.

Cael Sanderson talking about Casey Cunningham - "I'm his biggest fan. I want to be there if he ever scores on me so I can celebrate with him."

[Smsu150]

On 4/26/2023 at 7:31 AM, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Something big needs to happen on the order of a new head coach. I am proposing in 5 years, if Iowa is not a serious contender for the team title (second place is first loser) they make Spencer Lee their new head coach. Move Tom and Terry to the HWC. This timing aligns perfectly with Spencer’s 5 year contract at HWC and utilizes Iowa’s homegrown GOAT. It is the only way they can pull in the top tier recruits Penn State is getting.

In 5 years the Brands bothers will be 59.   It would probably be about time for them to retire at that point.  

Are there many 60 year old wrestling coaches?

[ionel]

5 minutes ago, Smsu150 said:

In 5 years the Brands bothers will be 59.   It would probably be about time for them to retire at that point.  

Are there many 60 year old wrestling coaches?

C'mon Man!  The leader of the free world is 80, gotta be a lot easier being a wrestling coach than running the entire country!  

[Offthemat]

5 hours ago, ionel said:

C'mon Man!  The leader of the free world is 80, gotta be a lot easier being a wrestling coach than running the entire country!  

He said it’s as easy as falling off a bike.