Stating the obvious: top kids are picking PSU over Iowa for 1 simple reason and it's not $$$

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

I know a lot of Iowa fans are stunned that a (purported) $250,000 NIL offer to Bernie Truax wasn't enough to land him in Black and Gold.  It seemed to be a perfect fit with Jacob Warner finally graduating and Iowa having a need at 197.

However, the Nittany Lion in the room is that for recent high school grads and up and coming prospects currently in middle school and high school, it's not really about NIL money.

The reason the best kids want to wrestle for Cael is obvious: the recent dominance of Penn State over the past 12 years.  Penn State won the team title in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2022, and 2023.  This is 10 championships out of the 12 contested (no championship in 2020 due to COVID-19), which is crazy.  In the same span they have crowned 34 individual champions!  It also helps many of their champs are highly visible and well known athletes, even after college - David Taylor with his Olympic Gold and Bo Nickal with his blossoming UFC career.  You also have high visibility in guys like Carter Starocci who are very outspoken to the point of brashness and arrogance.

Now think about any wrestler who is currently aged 13-18 -- in his entire life, he's basically only seen one team win NCAAs - Penn State.  And it's winning over and over and over again in dominant, flashy fashion.  And kids actually know who Cael is, not necessarily because he's way younger than other top head coaches like the Brands, Tom Ryan and John Smith, but because of what he's been able to accomplish at Penn State.

So while I think NIL is a good idea, the cream of the crop talent will more often than not choose to wrestle at Penn State simply because they feel it's their best chance to win individual and team championships.  I think teams like Iowa, Ohio State and Cornell will continue to do very well but they may need to offer 2x the NIL money of Penn State to convince the top guys to join them.

 

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Jimmy Cinnabon

[jchapman]

agree

[D3 for LU]

Agree as well... reluctantly!

Really can't stand where one team can brazenly grab ALL the gold.

(HEY, give some others a chance at grabbing the prize, bub!)

D3

[nhs67]

HFS.

This must be a different JC than the old forums.  This one makes sense.

[98lberEating2Lunches]

Just maybe, what weight each school wanted him at and how they approached him about it factored in more than childhood dreams or NIL $.

Iowa could've made clear it wanted him to work towards wrestling 197 to replace Warner, presuming AJ wasn't going to be available.  Since Bernie had just placed 4th at that weight, surely he'd be fine with it.  And if AJ showed up and beat him out, then Iowa would support working him back to 184.

Meanwhile Penn State could've wanted him to wrestle 184, but offered that if he wanted to wrestle 197 they'd support that too, just as they supported Cassar's move from 197 to HWT to replace an All-American.

Winning 4th at 197 while weighing only 186 lbs, I could see such a PSU approach as being more persuasive to someone whose main goal is to win an NCAA championship vs bank some $.

But sure, the NIL $ and Bernie's childhood dreams probably factored in too.

[PortaJohn]

Not bad @Jimmy Cinnabon, not bad at all.  I'd also add the NLWC is a big factor and a bigger factor than many people realize.  With the recent addition of Dake it's currently impossible to top let alone match what's happening in State College.  It's currently the mecca of USA wrestling for Folk and Freestyle

[98lberEating2Lunches]

2 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

currently the mecca of USA wrestling

This somehow seems a funny / sad cliché given recent 'no Muhammad... no false prophets' hubbub.

[PortaJohn]

Just now, 98lberEating2Lunches said:

This somehow seems a funny / sad cliché given recent 'no Muhammad... no false prophets' hubbub.

Well, hopefully no one tells Aaron Brooks

[feet2back]

28 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

Not bad @Jimmy Cinnabon, not bad at all.  I'd also add the NLWC is a big factor and a bigger factor than many people realize.  With the recent addition of Dake it's currently impossible to top let alone match what's happening in State College.  It's currently the mecca of USA wrestling for Folk and Freestyle

Couldn't agree more....Iowa was once the mecca but its now located in Central Pennsylvania..Great thing there are only 10 weight classes

Edited April 20, 2023 by feet2back

[mspart]

Nick Saban is not a fan of NIL money.   Has said in the past he won't give it to an unproven freshman when his Juniors and Seniors aren't getting any. 

Cael has a proven track record, like Dan Gable had his.   It is indisputable that PSU is dominant in the NCAA and has now become the FS club of choice.   With Snyder, Dake, and Gilman going there, they obviously saw something that intrigued them.   Maybe Dake just wanted to smash Taylor a few more times.   But it seems to have not hurt either one.    I would not say that NLWC is dominant yet, but it is on the way to getting there. 

Gilman, Retherford, Dake, Taylor, Snyder.   That's half of the team is NLWC.   But Gilman, Dake, and Snyder were already world team members so NLWC did not develop them.  But they have them now and gives them more representation than any other WC.  

mspart

[Idaho]

5 hours ago, nhs67 said:

HFS.

This must be a different JC than the old forums.  This one makes sense.

It is .... FauxBon. 

[Idaho]

2 hours ago, 98lberEating2Lunches said:

Meanwhile Penn State could've wanted him to wrestle 184, but offered that if he wanted to wrestle 197 they'd support that too.

So Truax calls the shots on what weight he is going at PSU? I'm going out on a limb here and saying there is no way the new kid comes in and dictates what weight Brooks is going. Something tells me it was the other way around. 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

2 hours ago, Idaho said:

So Truax calls the shots on what weight he is going at PSU?

Not what I said.  I was pointing at a potential subtlety in presentation by coaches of teams competing for Bernie's service.

I don't believe coaches are directing NIL consortium or sponsor budgets.  I do believe coaches are managing scholarship allocations and team membership opportunities.

I believe PSU offered Bernie an opportunity to compete for a starting spot in the lineup as a rostered team member.  I believe they convinced him they would support Bernie attaining his goals. This is standard operating procedure, and what PSU coaches strive for all their wrestlers each year.

I seriously doubt Bernie was verbally guaranteed either the 184 or 197 starting position.  More likely he was asked where he saw himself fitting in.  Then PSU coaches likely advised him whether they thought it was workable.  They might have even tested him with other options than any stated preference.

I believe Bernie's choice of PSU and his acceptance by PSU is a reflection of some mutual benefit,  likely including his opportunity to wrestle for an individual and team championship, earn NIL, and generally positively contribute to the team.

[ionel]

26 minutes ago, 98lberEating2Lunches said:

I don't believe coaches are directing NIL consortium or sponsor budgets.  I do believe coaches are managing scholarship allocations and team membership opportunities.

You can believe what you want, doesn't make it true.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

1 minute ago, ionel said:

You can believe what you want, doesn't make it true.

 

Agreed.  Can you similarly agree it doesn't make it false?

[Idaho]

14 minutes ago, 98lberEating2Lunches said:

Not what I said.  I was pointing at a potential subtlety in presentation by coaches of teams competing for Bernie's service.

I don't believe coaches are directing NIL consortium or sponsor budgets.  I do believe coaches are managing scholarship allocations and team membership opportunities.

I believe PSU offered Bernie an opportunity to compete for a starting spot in the lineup as a rostered team member.  I believe they convinced him they would support Bernie attaining his goals. This is standard operating procedure, and what PSU coaches strive for all their wrestlers each year.

I seriously doubt Bernie was verbally guaranteed either the 184 or 197 starting position.  More likely he was asked where he saw himself fitting in.  Then PSU coaches likely advised him whether they thought it was workable.  They might have even tested him with other options than any stated preference.

I believe Bernie's choice of PSU and his acceptance by PSU is a reflection of some mutual benefit,  likely including his opportunity to wrestle for an individual and team championship, earn NIL, and generally positively contribute to the team.

Here is what you said:  "Meanwhile Penn State could've wanted him to wrestle 184, but offered that if he wanted to wrestle 197 they'd support that too"                    You  are saying that Penn State was giving him a choice to wrestle 84 or 97 and they would support either choice.   I am pretty confident that conversations with their 3x National Champ took place first before they took place with 3x 4th place AA. Despite your narrative where you seemed to know what happened in the negotiations,  I am pretty certain Brooks played a very substantial role in this whole scenario.  

[98lberEating2Lunches]

Oh boy, you're not a salesman by any chance?

Maybe there's a decision for AB to Olympic RS that's still on the table so some flexibility is warranted.  Maybe during the sales pitch the coaches sought to test Bernie's reaction to such flexibility.  Maybe they talked to him as a collaborator not a dictator would so the meeting had a greater chance of yielding a successful result.

Edited April 21, 2023 by 98lberEating2Lunches

[Idaho]

9 minutes ago, 98lberEating2Lunches said:

Oh boy, you're not a salesman by any chance?

Maybe there's a decision for AB to Olympic RS that's still on the table so some flexibility is warranted.  Maybe during the sales pitch the coaches sought to test Bernie's reaction to such flexibility.  Maybe they talked to him as a collaborator not a dictator would so the meeting had a greater chance of yielding a successful result.

Maybe you are full of crap? 

[ionel]

21 minutes ago, 98lberEating2Lunches said:

Agreed.  Can you similarly agree it doesn't make it false?

Well I'm sure its false, in the words of Fly ...

[CHROMEBIRD]

1 hour ago, 98lberEating2Lunches said:

Not what I said.  I was pointing at a potential subtlety in presentation by coaches of teams competing for Bernie's service.

I don't believe coaches are directing NIL consortium or sponsor budgets.  I do believe coaches are managing scholarship allocations and team membership opportunities.

I believe PSU offered Bernie an opportunity to compete for a starting spot in the lineup as a rostered team member.  I believe they convinced him they would support Bernie attaining his goals. This is standard operating procedure, and what PSU coaches strive for all their wrestlers each year.

I seriously doubt Bernie was verbally guaranteed either the 184 or 197 starting position.  More likely he was asked where he saw himself fitting in.  Then PSU coaches likely advised him whether they thought it was workable.  They might have even tested him with other options than any stated preference.

I believe Bernie's choice of PSU and his acceptance by PSU is a reflection of some mutual benefit,  likely including his opportunity to wrestle for an individual and team championship, earn NIL, and generally positively contribute to the team.

Retherford had this great story some time back about how, during his recruitment, Cael was the only one who actually asked him what his goals were in wrestling, academics, life/post-wrestling. The other schools were more pitching to him, like here's why you should come wrestle for us... He said Cael sat and listened to what he had to say, then mapped a path to get there by wrestling at PSU.

Same thing could very well have happened with Truax. Beyond NIL money, maybe he was sold on an opporunity and a vision.

[Wrestleknownothing]

20 minutes ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

Retherford had this great story some time back about how, during his recruitment, Cael was the only one who actually asked him what his goals were in wrestling, academics, life/post-wrestling. The other schools were more pitching to him, like here's why you should come wrestle for us... He said Cael sat and listened to what he had to say, then mapped a path to get there by wrestling at PSU.

Same thing could very well have happened with Truax. Beyond NIL money, maybe he was sold on an opporunity and a vision.

This is the internet. Bags of cash in a dark alley while evil-laughing about getting one over on the comp must be the answer.

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

 

[AgaveMaria]

"Penn State won the team title in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2022, and 2023.  This is 10 championships out of the 12 contested (no championship in 2020 due to COVID-19), which is crazy."

10 Titles in 13 seasons. Remember it took a full year before the guys started the winning.