Spencer Lee’s first interview since NCAAs

[98lberEating2Lunches]

2 hours ago, Bardamu911 said:

"if the rule is who quits first then Austin DeSanto would be Olympic champ." 

 

hahaha Spencer's got jokes

RBY might really think that statement a joke.

[Dogbone]

Before Spencer's MFF, I don't recall very many negative comments about him, even from non hawkeye fans. He always seems beloved by all.   But I also don't take "why did Lee only win 8-0" as a negative comment even though Yianni has never had the same level of scrutiny so that could be the difference. 

What stuck out to me was how aware of message board/on line comments he pays attention to.   I can't imagine anyone on Iowa's campus actually says the things he was complaining about to his face so I would guess it only comes from being on line.   I would think that would be fairly easy to turn off, unless he seeks it out to use as motivation.

Regardless, glad he gave the interview and opened up. 

[Formally140]

25 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

Before Spencer's MFF, I don't recall very many negative comments about him, even from non hawkeye fans. He always seems beloved by all.   But I also don't take "why did Lee only win 8-0" as a negative comment even though Yianni has never had the same level of scrutiny so that could be the difference. 

What stuck out to me was how aware of message board/on line comments he pays attention to.   I can't imagine anyone on Iowa's campus actually says the things he was complaining about to his face so I would guess it only comes from being on line.   I would think that would be fairly easy to turn off, unless he seeks it out to use as motivation.

Regardless, glad he gave the interview and opened up. 

He very much got extra chippy this year to stay motivated so I wouldn’t be shocked

[jdowntown]

I think it was a good interview. Maybe even a really good interview.

At the end of the day, as a fan of wrestling, we all have our subjective opinions of what makes for good wrestling and by extension good wrestlers. It is easy to look at records and titles and say who the good wrestlers are. But to me that is superficial. In my opinion, good wrestling is consistently working for pins and getting them. To me the real heart and soul of the sport is more on the mat than on the feet. Yes, neutral is a part of the sport, but I think it is a lesser part. You can totally win matches and titles in the sport with only takedowns and escapes (heck in freestyle you don't even need escapes), but to me you will always be lesser than those who put others on their back.

So was there a double standard for asking if Spencer had a bad match that he only won 8-0, while Yianni eeks out 1 point wins all the time? Depends on your point of view. I have been watching college wrestling for the last 20 years (so I don't the 90s and earlier). To me, the top wrestlers are (in no particular order): Askren, Nickal, Ruth, Taylor, Metcalf, and Spencer with Nolf and Retherford right behind. Noticeably absent are the guys with the best record and most titles: Stieber, Yianni, and Dake. But such is the subjectivity of such lists.

While Yianni is undoubtedly a very good wrestler, I am not particularly saddened to see him go. He was not, in that sense special. Spencer on the other hand was. I am saddened to see his collegiate career conclude, because he was one of the guys that you just watched with excitement because you knew he was probably going to turn a guy. He freaking took top in that match against Ramos AND turned him for 4 AND rode him out (who the heck does that?). That is the kind of threat the top tier guys have in my mind. And Spencer was elite in that way and Yianni was not. And everyone kind of knew that. That is why people did have different expectations between the two. Is it fair? Meh, who cares. It is an admiration and respect thing, more than a standards or expectation thing. Does that translate to real life pressure? Maybe it does. The fact that he is talking about it kind of shows that it did cross his mind.

Good luck to his international career and personal life outside of wrestling. I will miss him at the college level.

[mspart]

Well put.

mspart

[Dark Energy]

@jdowntown - good post.  Not in agreement with all said but that is fine.  Well thought through and we’ll said.

[CHROMEBIRD]

23 minutes ago, jdowntown said:

While Yianni is undoubtedly a very good wrestler, I am not particularly saddened to see him go.

I am. I liked Yianni's interviews and his mom.

[scourge165]

On 4/10/2023 at 5:42 PM, Dark Energy said:

@jdowntown - good post.  Not in agreement with all said but that is fine.  Well thought through and we’ll said.

My thoughts exactly. 

I'm a little surprised he's a big fan of mat Wrestling and he didn't have Dake higher, but... that's @jdowntownlist.

I do think people are slightly embellishing Yianni's style. He was pretty dominant. He had close matches with guys like McKenna, Sasso or the like, but he had ~50 pins or techs out of 115 matches(also just the 2 losses to Eierman and Gomez...but I get the point, Lee  was a machine on top.

[Pinnacle]

30 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

My thoughts exactly. 

I'm a little surprised he's a big fan of mat Wrestling and he didn't have Dake higher, but... that's @jdowntownlist.

I do think people are slightly embellishing Yianni's style. He was pretty dominant. He had close matches with guys like McKenna, Sasso or the like, but he had ~50 pins or techs out of 115 matches(also just the 2 losses to Eierman and Gomez...but I get the point, Lee  was a machine on top.

But Yianni's 50 pins need some context as well. In 10 CKLV and 36 combined EIWA and NCAA matches, a total of 46 matches, he has 1 pin over a guy ranked above 90 by wrestlestat. He did pin a whole lot of Ivy wrestlers though. 

[scourge165]

Just now, Pinnacle said:

But Yianni's 50 pins need some context as well. In 10 CKLV and 36 combined EIWA and NCAA matches, a total of 46 matches, he has 1 pin over a guy ranked above 90 by wrestlestat. He did pin a whole lot of Ivy wrestlers though. 

Eh, fair enough. I'm just saying they weren't all 1 point matches and I think there's a little revisionist history after just kinda getting by for his 4th vs Van Ness and Murin. 

He wasn't Spencer Lee, but...I mean, two guys beat the man. I don't know what Dake's look like, but I suspect his was someone similar.

[VakAttack]

On 4/7/2023 at 11:20 PM, BAC said:

LOL yeah but those are MFF threads. That’s my point.  Anyone who bails on wrestlebacks at NCAAs, especially in a podium race, is gonna catch some heat unless they are clearly hurt. Thats not anti-Spencer, it’s despite it being Spencer. Have any non-MFF examples?

Thought about this conversation when I ended up on BWI today scouring for Nagao news and got these two gems randomly:

https://pennstate.forums.rivals.com/threads/transfer-portal.291745/page-69

which included, in reference to Nagao wrestling with Spencer if he chooses Iowa:  "The faux GOAT don't roll like that." and "Like some young upstart is going to be allowed to touch Lord Spencer in live wrestling at practice."

 

I think you're underestimating the things said about Spencer.

[PortaJohn]

3 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Thought about this conversation when I ended up on BWI today scouring for Nagao news and got these two gems randomly:

https://pennstate.forums.rivals.com/threads/transfer-portal.291745/page-69

which included, in reference to Nagao wrestling with Spencer if he chooses Iowa:  "The faux GOAT don't roll like that." and "Like some young upstart is going to be allowed to touch Lord Spencer in live wrestling at practice."

 

I think you're underestimating the things said about Spencer.

To be fair wasn't it Drake Ayala's mom that started that rumor

[VakAttack]

1 minute ago, PortaJohn said:

To be fair wasn't it Drake Ayala's mom that started that rumor

I do not believe she referred to him as the "faux GOAT" or "Lord Spencer."  But she is the beginning of when this started being used as widespread mocking of Spencer for not wrestling.  It was relatively common knowledge that he didn't roll in the room much; he's been recovering from repeated surgeries.  I believe Gilman expressed some sort of similar sentiment abut not rolling with Spencer in awhile.

[98lberEating2Lunches]

59 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

"The faux GOAT don't roll like that." and "Like some young upstart is going to be allowed to touch Lord Spencer in live wrestling at practice."

Not defending just saying, I believe "faux GOAT" and "Lord Spencer" references are more a shot at Iowa posters than Spencer.

Some Iowa posters professed Spencer to GOAT status and made statements taken as veneration, such as designating him head coach and/or AD in waiting.

I don't see this much different than the way some Iowa fans post about Cael being treated as Godlike bu PSU wrestling fans.  So I think there's a broader context.

I do my best not to partake in exchanges that might be seen as belittling college wrestlers.  I don't tilt against the windmills of posters who do, by trying to get them to stop.

[VakAttack]

15 minutes ago, 98lberEating2Lunches said:

Not defending just saying, I believe "faux GOAT" and "Lord Spencer" references are more a shot at Iowa posters than Spencer.

Some Iowa posters professed Spencer to GOAT status and made statements taken as veneration, such as designating him head coach and/or AD in waiting.

I don't see this much different than the way some Iowa fans post about Cael being treated as Godlike bu PSU wrestling fans.  So I think there's a broader context.

I do my best not to partake in exchanges that might be seen as belittling college wrestlers.  I don't tilt against the windmills of posters who do, by trying to get them to stop.

"Faux GOAT" and "Lord Spencer" are direct shots at Lee, not the fans.

Here's the thing a bout Iowa fans talking about Cael:  A lot of them ARE insulting him and don't like him as well as the Penn State fans, and they're open about it.  So that's a bad comparison for your point.  A shot at the fans in that scenario would be the old "isn't it crazy how wrestling started in 2010?" which is the most common refrain that is directed at their fans.  Against Iowa it would be some version of "delusionally living in the past" or something like that.  This ain't that.  It's direct shots at Spencer, he's not wrong that he got hated on a lot.

[98lberEating2Lunches]

5 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

"Faux GOAT" and "Lord Spencer" are direct shots at Lee, not the fans.

Here's the thing a bout Iowa fans talking about Cael:  A lot of them ARE insulting him and don't like him as well as the Penn State fans, and they're open about it.  So that's a bad comparison for your point.  A shot at the fans in that scenario would be the old "isn't it crazy how wrestling started in 2010?" which is the most common refrain that is directed at their fans.  Against Iowa it would be some version of "delusionally living in the past" or something like that.  This ain't that.  It's direct shots at Spencer, he's not wrong that he got hated on a lot.

I guess one could just ask those two who used the terms.  Otherwise neither of us can know their intent with certainty until they state it. Then again, we might not trust them to be truthful.  Sovl it might be best to just live in the world we've each created in our own minds.

[BAC]

6 hours ago, VakAttack said:

Thought about this conversation when I ended up on BWI today scouring for Nagao news and got these two gems randomly:

https://pennstate.forums.rivals.com/threads/transfer-portal.291745/page-69

which included, in reference to Nagao wrestling with Spencer if he chooses Iowa:  "The faux GOAT don't roll like that." and "Like some young upstart is going to be allowed to touch Lord Spencer in live wrestling at practice."

 

I think you're underestimating the things said about Spencer.

Only took you three weeks to find an example, eh Vak? 

And come on, this is pretty weak sauce.  Saying someone is "not the greatest of all time" (faux GOAT) isn't exactly the most cutting insult I've heard in my life.  And the gripes about Spencer not training with young teammates originated within Hawk Nation; I take that comment as a joking reference to mama Ayala.

I'll grant you these qualify as insults, albeit mild ones.  But the fact that these are the worst that you or anyone could come up with, after three weeks, reinforces my point that Spencer is, overall, one of the most well-liked wrestlers of all time.  In the time it took you to find two modest examples, I'm sure I could find thousands of social media posts of fans fawning all over him.  

And the bigger point is that, even if there's a hater or two out there, Spencer massively overreacted, to a very alarming extent.  It can't possibly be healthy to have such a misplaced, poisonous perception of how others see you.  Who's on Team Spencer who is talking him off this ledge?  Is anyone?  

I thought Askren was on the money in his take on Spencer's interview:

https://www.flowrestling.org/events/5011126-flowrestling-radio-live/videos?playing=10869394&limit=60

 

[BAC]

I'll add this, and it is obviously just my opinion -- which, along with $7, will get you a gallon of gas in California.  But I think Tom and Terry, who've always thrived on being ornery, have convinced themselves that their guys wrestle better when they have a chip on their shoulder.  So they've baked it into their coaching.  They preach this "everyone hates us" and "its the world vs. the Hawkeyes" stuff, thinking it is motivational.  For many it is.  But I don't think it is for everyone, all the time.  For some -- especially those already prone to negative thinking -- I think it can eat at them, like a cancer.  It motivates in the right dosage, but taken too far, it festers, distracts, and manifests in their wrestling, like a personal demon they need to overcome (along with their actual opponent) whenever they take the mat.  That's my perception of how it has affected Spencer.  He was always heavily self-critical and motivated himself with it, and it made him great.  But to hear him talk now, he feels so put-upon -- for the thinnest of reasons -- that he sounds overcome with resentment.  And it seems that no one in Iowa City is disabusing him of these thoughts.  It isn't sustainable.  He is very clearly NOT having fun.  I'll be rooting for him at the US Open and I hope he is healthy, but I fear his personal challenges aren't solely physical. 

Edited April 26, 2023 by BAC

[Pinnacle]

12 hours ago, BAC said:

I'll grant you these qualify as insults, albeit mild ones.  But the fact that these are the worst that you or anyone could come up with, after three weeks, reinforces my point that Spencer is, overall, one of the most well-liked wrestlers of all time.  In the time it took you to find two modest examples, I'm sure I could find thousands of social media posts of fans fawning all over him.  

And the bigger point is that, even if there's a hater or two out there, Spencer massively overreacted, to a very alarming extent.  It can't possibly be healthy to have such a misplaced, poisonous perception of how others see you.  Who's on Team Spencer who is talking him off this ledge?  Is anyone?  

 

It is not Spencer that opposing fans are poked by, it is the fans who turned him into the GOAT when it was not earned. Of course people are going to push back on that idea. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

18 hours ago, VakAttack said:

I do not believe she referred to him as the "faux GOAT" or "Lord Spencer."  But she is the beginning of when this started being used as widespread mocking of Spencer for not wrestling.  It was relatively common knowledge that he didn't roll in the room much; he's been recovering from repeated surgeries.  I believe Gilman expressed some sort of similar sentiment abut not rolling with Spencer in awhile.

Meanwhile her own kid was coming back from his own surgery.  Certainly makes sense that they wouldn't roll much.  

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

12 hours ago, BAC said:

 For some -- especially those already prone to negative thinking -- I think it can eat at them, like a cancer.  It motivates in the right dosage, but taken too far, it festers, distracts, and manifests in their wrestling, like a personal demon they need to overcome (along with their actual opponent) whenever they take the mat.  That's my perception of how it has affected Spencer.  He was always heavily self-critical and motivated himself with it, and it made him great.  But to hear him talk now, he feels so put-upon -- for the thinnest of reasons -- that he sounds overcome with resentment.  And it seems that no one in Iowa City is disabusing him of these thoughts.  It isn't sustainable.  He is very clearly NOT having fun.  I'll be rooting for him at the US Open and I hope he is healthy, but I fear his personal challenges aren't solely physical. 

I'm confused on how the "right dosage" of cancer is a good thing?

[1032004]

Could be wrong but I was getting the impression from Spencer’s interview that he was more annoyed with the Iowa fans.   I can’t imagine he’d expect all love and support from opposing fans (even though the majority did)

[ionel]

3 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I'm confused on how the "right dosage" of cancer is a good thing?