Lee "excuses are for wusses"

[AgaveMaria]

Spencer, we understand that and don't expect an excuse for your dropping out and medical forfeits to 6th place.

We do expect an explanation. That is not an excuse. It is treating fans, competitors and coaches to the reality of why you did not wrestle the placement matches.

If it is really a medical problem, let us know. We have followed your career and cheered/boo'ed you through knee troubles, sickness and triumph. We could see you were not 100% this time.

Why not make as simple announcement and clear things up? Injury is nothing to be ashamed of. It happens. It is not an excuse - it is reality.

Let your fans know.

[LJB]

[Rassling]

We don't need an explanation. For those of from PA who watched some of his matches, some of us are not surprised. It's time to move on. Time to look forward. Lets hope the youngest of our wrestlers learns from this. 

"Non Desistas Non Exieris" / "Never Give Up Never Surrender" 

[wrestlingphish]

19 minutes ago, AgaveMaria said:

Spencer, we understand that and don't expect an excuse for your dropping out and medical forfeits to 6th place.

We do expect an explanation. That is not an excuse. It is treating fans, competitors and coaches to the reality of why you did not wrestle the placement matches.

If it is really a medical problem, let us know. We have followed your career and cheered/boo'ed you through knee troubles, sickness and triumph. We could see you were not 100% this time.

Why not make as simple announcement and clear things up? Injury is nothing to be ashamed of. It happens. It is not an excuse - it is reality.

Let your fans know.

[CHROMEBIRD]

You gotta give him some time to cope and move on. I'm sure he'll tell us when he's ready.

[Holtfan]

He owes you an explanation?  Seriously?!?!!?

Okay, I'll bite......why would he owe anyone--you, me, Brands, Gable, The Man in the Moon---anything? 

Premier athletes compete to satisfy themselves.  I for one don't believe he--or any one else who toed the stripe last weekend--owes anyone anything. 

Just my view from the cheap seats......

[scribers]

He got cuffed and stuffed! Coo coo coo

[PencilNeck]

Lee would have won in the final against Glory.

[ionel]

2 minutes ago, PencilNeck said:

Lee would have won in the final against Glory.

Well there you go ... he should win the Hodge ... only one loss but woulda beat the undefeated national champ.  

[PencilNeck]

Pure speculation on my part, and not trying to imply that glory wasn’t a completely worthy champion or take away from his impressive season and title run. For some reason Ramos just matched up against lee really well.

 

of course lee not wrestling back for third does sort of hurt the validity of my assertion a bit.

[CHROMEBIRD]

6 minutes ago, PencilNeck said:

Pure speculation on my part, and not trying to imply that glory wasn’t a completely worthy champion or take away from his impressive season and title run. For some reason Ramos just matched up against lee really well.

 

of course lee not wrestling back for third does sort of hurt the validity of my assertion a bit.

Ramos did match up well with Lee, but a big part of that is his preparation and game planning. Ramos talked about how Spencer lived in his head every day and how much time he and his coaches spent watching tape and working through situational strategies. Similarly, Brands and the coaches deserve some of the blame for not game planning for Ramos and giving Lee the best chance at winning. We are talking about a kid who took Spencer down multiple times before and even got swipes. That was lazy coaching to not be ready, especially if they knew Spencer was wrestling with an injury. 

[AOCStallsLikeAMug]

he's not about that life, plain and simple. Phenomenal wrestler/talent, but absolute "wusse" move by him.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Warner, after taking 3rd place, was on the mic talking about getting 'the next best thing.' Which, if you've followed Iowa wrestling at all - you are familiar with.

It's what the Brands coaching staff have taught, have been doing for years. If you don't get what you want, get the 'next best thing.'

Lee didn't do that. 

As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't make him a better or worse wrestler. Or a 'wusse' or anything else. It was just his choice. There is conflict with the fact that his choice doesn't match with Iowa wrestling's current philosophy - that's true. But that'll sort itself out. 

[Antitroll2828]

2 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Warner, after taking 3rd place, was on the mic talking about getting 'the next best thing.' Which, if you've followed Iowa wrestling at all - you are familiar with.

It's what the Brands coaching staff have taught, have been doing for years. If you don't get what you want, get the 'next best thing.'

Lee didn't do that. 

As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't make him a better or worse wrestler. Or a 'wusse' or anything else. It was just his choice. There is conflict with the fact that his choice doesn't match with Iowa wrestling's current philosophy - that's true. But that'll sort itself out. 

Warner didn’t take 3rd 

[GreatWhiteNorth]

2 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Warner didn’t take 3rd 

5th. I stand corrected.

We both should well know, because he was on my fantasy team that kicked your team's arse!

[Antitroll2828]

32 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

5th. I stand corrected.

We both should well know, because he was on my fantasy team that kicked your team's arse!

Lol you only beat me by 9 I still made money on the whole thing so that’s the friendliest ass kicking ive ever had 

[GreatWhiteNorth]

14 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Lol you only beat me by 9 I still made money on the whole thing so that’s the friendliest ass kicking ive ever had 

9 was like 10%! But good point, I do pride myself on being a friendly competitor. Let's see how it goes next year.

[BAC]

A longer version is on the Chael/Lee thread, but here is the shorter version of what I do/don't think.  Don't think Lee was injured, at least not anymore than he already was from his overall rehab journey.  Do think he'd have wrestled back if he could.  Don't think he could because he was too psychologically distraught from the loss.  Do think Iowa issued a wishy-washy press release to keep the wolves at bay, implying injury without ever actually stating it.  Don't think he owes fans an explanation.  Do think he will speak to it eventually.  Don't think Spencer deserves blame for not doing something (wrestling back) he was just not mentally capable of at that time.  Do think Iowa bears some responsibility for that outcome by convincing Spencer he's the best ever and totally invincible, given that the whole reason Spencer got so good is that he's insanely self-critical and never satisfied with his performances.  Don't have any solid basis for any of this rank speculation on my part.  Do think I'm mostly right, even though Spencer's PR people on the NIL front will push him to play the injury card.

[ScarletKnight]

1 hour ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

Ramos did match up well with Lee, but a big part of that is his preparation and game planning. Ramos talked about how Spencer lived in his head every day and how much time he and his coaches spent watching tape and working through situational strategies. Similarly, Brands and the coaches deserve some of the blame for not game planning for Ramos and giving Lee the best chance at winning. We are talking about a kid who took Spencer down multiple times before and even got swipes. That was lazy coaching to not be ready, especially if they knew Spencer was wrestling with an injury. 

Does Iowa scout or game plan at all?  Or do they spend every minute on strength and conditioning and live goes?  Just a bad look for the program. Guys are overworked and injured 

I know a starter for Iowa from a few years ago (a name everyone would know here) who said he was always tired and sore from their practices. 

When Ramos made the national team in freestyle years ago (the time he committed to Minnesota), I feel like he was doing that head pinch a lot.  And I think he tried it against glory once but the element of surprise was gone

Ramos was beating Spencer earlier this year and as the 4 seed, they knew that match was coming.  Wonder if they watched Ramos's other matches in preparation or just figured picking top was enough?  Jaja

Glory said he prepared for years to beat Lee.  Would love to know if Iowa had spent any time preparing for glory?  Probably not, maybe had Glory made the finals, they would have watched Glory's semis win. 

 

 

 

[CHROMEBIRD]

16 minutes ago, ScarletKnight said:

Does Iowa scout or game plan at all?  Or do they spend every minute on strength and conditioning and live goes?  Just a bad look for the program. Guys are overworked and injured 

I know a starter for Iowa from a few years ago (a name everyone would know here) who said he was always tired and sore from their practices. 

When Ramos made the national team in freestyle years ago (the time he committed to Minnesota), I feel like he was doing that head pinch a lot.  And I think he tried it against glory once but the element of surprise was gone

Ramos was beating Spencer earlier this year and as the 4 seed, they knew that match was coming.  Wonder if they watched Ramos's other matches in preparation or just figured picking top was enough?  Jaja

Glory said he prepared for years to beat Lee.  Would love to know if Iowa had spent any time preparing for glory?  Probably not, maybe had Glory made the finals, they would have watched Glory's semis win. 

Don't know if it's across the board or just Spencer, but he said on a podcast that he doesn't watch tape or game plan for anyone. He just goes out and wrestles, and it usually works.

Tony Ramos and Gilman have also said they were shocked when they left Iowa and saw how comparatively little live wrestling other programs do. Tony said they do drill at Iowa but the majority of practice time, at least when they were with the Hawks, was live goes, conditioning, and strength training. Said Coleman Scott spends a lot more time with drilling and instruction and less time live wrestling. Gilman said similar, that there's a lot of "just rolling around" in the PSU room. The brutal practices worked for Gable, but I think wrestling has changed a lot since then and the spaghetti wrestling and scrambling today leads to more injuries IMO. 

Edited March 23, 2023 by CHROMEBIRD

[scribers]

[WrestlingRasta]

In years past I would say a college athlete doesn’t ‘owe’ this kind of explanation to anyone. But that’s years past. In todays world college athletes are getting paid, and they’re getting paid by individuals and/or LLC’s based on their fan following. With that comes responsibility. I think in today business of college sports, an athlete does have a responsibility for an explanation as to why he withdrew from the national championship. 

[JBluegill133]

Could it be that he finally just HEW (folkstyle)?  I have no data or information to support this but had this though... if he wasn't going for his 4th title, I wonder if he even would've wrestled this year?  I know he was all in on Iowa's title and was a team guy but he just seemed so burnt out and tired.  After he lost to Ramos maybe that was just it. 

[BaldAt23]

8 hours ago, BAC said:

A longer version is on the Chael/Lee thread, but here is the shorter version of what I do/don't think.  Don't think Lee was injured, at least not anymore than he already was from his overall rehab journey.  Do think he'd have wrestled back if he could.  Don't think he could because he was too psychologically distraught from the loss.  Do think Iowa issued a wishy-washy press release to keep the wolves at bay, implying injury without ever actually stating it.  Don't think he owes fans an explanation.  Do think he will speak to it eventually.  Don't think Spencer deserves blame for not doing something (wrestling back) he was just not mentally capable of at that time.  Do think Iowa bears some responsibility for that outcome by convincing Spencer he's the best ever and totally invincible, given that the whole reason Spencer got so good is that he's insanely self-critical and never satisfied with his performances.  Don't have any solid basis for any of this rank speculation on my part.  Do think I'm mostly right, even though Spencer's PR people on the NIL front will push him to play the injury card.

They didn't imply injury, they said he injury defaulted. That states that the wrestler is injured. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

6 minutes ago, BaldAt23 said:

They didn't imply injury, they said he injury defaulted. That states that the wrestler is injured. 

At no point did he injury default, nor did any person say that (outside of message boards or social media.)