Something the NCAA championships don't need tonight

[russelscout]

  On 3/18/2023 at 7:17 PM, Cherkov said:

Your avatar and namesake was so hated and divisive in his contemporary society that they sentence him to death in a public trial. That's how much they didn't need him. 

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… as far as I know Socrates will not be attending tonight so no worries.

[Paul158]

Why is this on the wrestling forum? I thought this forum was for discussion about wrestling. 

[billyhoyle]

I'm not sure he will be received too fondly if he's introduced.  He's not a fan of the college-educated.  I remember Donald Rumsfeld being met with resounding boos when he was given an award at MSG a number of years ago. 

[russelscout]

  On 3/18/2023 at 7:20 PM, Paul158 said:

Why is this on the wrestling forum? I thought this forum was for discussion about wrestling. 

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The Finals doesn’t fall under wrestling discussion? 

[Paul158]

  On 3/18/2023 at 7:21 PM, russelscout said:

The Finals doesn’t fall under wrestling discussion? 

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I must have not.  got that memo.My bad.

[SocraTease]

  On 3/18/2023 at 7:17 PM, Cherkov said:

Your avatar and namesake was so hated and divisive in his contemporary society that they sentence him to death in a public trial. That's how much they didn't need him. 

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I sense that you might know less than nothing about Socrates, his pupil,Plato (who was the one to essentially make him famous through his written dialogues), or philosophy.

Socrates at least knew (or, more likely, claimed ironically) that he knew nothing.   

Many hated him because he revealed through discussion, dialogue, and debate that the politicians, priests, and poets of his polis (city state) didn't know what they were talking about, and they took revenge on a man who encouraged others to think for themselves.   He also didn't fear death and was willing to die for the truth.

The Socratic dialogue and dialectic has been justifiably of great value to western forms of learning form universities to law schools.

Socrates survives through his genius.  Those who hated him and helped to put him to death do not.

PS: Socrates influenced positively lots of important historical figures like Martin Luther King.   He also generally stood for the values of free speech and thought.  His politics can be admittedly questioned, but that's a whole other matter.  It's good to see a few others interested in standing up for freedom of expression in a time when that is threatened in so many different ways: cancel culture, book bans, etc.  I was simply reporting a relevant news story during the "down time" between sessions in the tournament.   If that feels threatening to anyone, well, just skip the thread and enjoy the action later.  

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by SocraTease

[PortaJohn]

  On 3/18/2023 at 7:17 PM, Cherkov said:

Your avatar and namesake was so hated and divisive in his contemporary society that they sentence him to death in a public trial. That's how much they didn't need him. 

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Bad move by Athens. Socrates protege, Plato, taught Aristotle who then taught Alexander.  When Alexander invaded Athens with his dad and conquered them he asked, "What do you think about that?"

[PortaJohn]

  On 3/18/2023 at 7:21 PM, billyhoyle said:

I'm not sure he will be received too fondly if he's introduced.  He's not a fan of the college-educated.  I remember Donald Rumsfeld being met with resounding boos when he was given an award at MSG a number of years ago. 

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I was there and don't remember any boos. 

[jross]

  On 3/18/2023 at 7:21 PM, billyhoyle said:

I'm not sure he will be received too fondly if he's introduced.  He's not a fan of the college-educated.  I remember Donald Rumsfeld being met with resounding boos when he was given an award at MSG a number of years ago. 

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This is Tulsa

[SocraTease]

  On 3/18/2023 at 7:31 PM, PortaJohn said:

Bad move by Athens. Socrates protege, Plato, taught Aristotle who then taught Alexander.  When Alexander invaded Athens with his dad and conquered them he asked, "What do you think about that?"

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Hmm.  You are right at least about the lineage of influence and teaching.   As some folks here likely know, Plato was a great wrestler.  See article below.  Aside: I think RBY has the word "wrestle" written in Greek on his arm.  Look for it tonight.

Plato’s Body, and Mine

By Bill Hayes

IF only I had read Plato.

That’s what I thought when I saw my MRI: 28 images, impossible to deny, of a torn rotator cuff muscle — a consequence of years of weightlifting. And that’s just my shoulder. May I present C4, C5 and C6 (my herniated discs), my plantar fasciitis, my patellar tendinitis — residual damage done to a body, now 51, in the name of exercise, in pursuit of being buff.

Plato could have warned me. In “The Republic,” he advises “temperance” in physical training, likening it to learning music and poetry. Keep it “simple and flexible,” as in all things, don’t overdo. Follow this course, and you will remain “independent of medicine in all but extreme cases.”

Plato was an athlete, particularly skilled as a wrestler. His given name was Aristocles, after his grandfather, but the coach under whom he trained is said to have called him “Plato” — from the Greek for broad, platon, on account of his broad-shouldered frame. It stuck.

So good a wrestler was Plato that he reportedly competed at the Isthmian Games (comparable to the Olympics), and continued wrestling into adulthood. Ensconced at the academy, he spoke strongly on behalf of the virtues of physical education. He felt that one should balance physical training with “cultivating the mind,” exercising “the intellect in study.” The goal “is to bring the two elements into tune with one another by adjusting the tension of each to the right pitch.” Equal parts thought and sweat, so to speak.

As one can see most obviously in gifted athletes and performers, the body itself can be a source of knowledge — coordination, grace, agility, stamina, skill — both intuitive and learned. Indeed, there are rare few whom I would call Einsteins of the body — geniuses at inventing, expressing and employing movement. Is that not what the dancer and choreographer Mark Morris is? Or the tennis great Roger Federer?

The contemporary philosopher (and self-admitted sports nut) Colin McGinn points out that physical education should be a lifelong pursuit. “We like our minds to be knowledgeable, well-stocked with information; we should also want our bodies to be similarly endowed,” he writes in his charming book “Sport.” “The erudite body is a good body to have.”

Of course there is the risk of taking things too far. Again, from “The Republic”: “Have you noticed how a lifelong devotion to physical exercise, to the exclusion of anything else, produces a certain type of mind? Just as neglect of it produces another?” Plato writes, recounting the words of Socrates. “Excessive emphasis on athletics produces an excessively uncivilized type, while a purely literary training leaves men indecently soft.”

Even if I’d been sitting at Plato’s feet as a young man, I would not have listened. Back then, looking good and getting bigger mattered most. I suppose it was all very Darwinian — puffing myself up and trying to make myself attractive in order to attract a mate. But I was not explicitly conscious of such aims. I liked working out in itself, the pure satisfaction of using full force against a resistance. I sought what Pavlov — a lover of biking, rowing and swimming — so beautifully called “muscular gladness.”

Alas, today I’m paying a price in frayed muscle tendons. But in my aches and pains I am choosing to see wisdom gained. If the human body is the best picture of the human soul, as Wittgenstein said, then mine is pumped. But I have pressed pause on the StairMaster and stepped away from the heavy weights for a time. Now it is Plato’s body to which I aspire.

 

Bill Hayes is the author of “The Anatomist,” who is at work on a book on the history of exercise. 

[Scouts Honor]

  On 3/18/2023 at 7:11 PM, peanut said:

It would certainly be unprecedented for a former president to attend a sporting event on the same day he says he was about to be indicted and called for protests. 

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when he is actually indicted let me know

[swoopdown]

But could Plato deadlift 665 lbs?

[Scouts Honor]

  On 3/18/2023 at 7:21 PM, billyhoyle said:

I'm not sure he will be received too fondly if he's introduced.  He's not a fan of the college-educated.  I remember Donald Rumsfeld being met with resounding boos when he was given an award at MSG a number of years ago. 

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i am aware that many people... dont know how to behave

[buckshot]

  On 3/18/2023 at 6:54 PM, PortaJohn said:

The interview will be hilarious

Mr President what do you think of this event?

"Huge Event. Lots of spandex.  Never seen more tight spandex.  A little gay but these gays are tough.  What do they call it?  Cauliflower ear?  It tastes terrible but you have to eat you vegetables.  What do I know. This is a lot of big strong guys.  I got here and said Wow that's a lot of big strong guys.  A lot of people are telling me this guy Kale Sanderson is the best.  I don't know.  Is that a vegetable.  What do I know.  Hulk Hogan.  I know the man.  Great guy.  Really great guy."

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It's a guarantee that he mentions he's in the WWE Hall of Fame and talks about it like it's a big important honor.

[buckshot]

I'm sure he knows nothing about the sport of wrestling but he won't go to the basketball tournament because he thinks it will be a bunch of Black people. Wait until he finds out there is a Latino at 125, a Black guy at 133, a Black guy and a Latino at 141 and Black guy at 165, 174 and HWT. 

It is weird that he's going though since the last time he went to a big sporting event was the 2021 World Series specifically to do the tomahawk chop. Maybe he thinks Oklahoma will cheer for him.

Edited March 18, 2023 by buckshot

[Scouts Honor]

wow you must be so proud

[LJB]

  On 3/18/2023 at 7:57 PM, buckshot said:

I'm sure he knows nothing about the sport of wrestling but he won't go to the basketball tournament because he thinks it will be a bunch of Black people. Wait until he finds out there is a Latino at 125, a Black guy at 133, a Black guy and a Latino at 141 and Black guy at 165, 174 and HWT. 

It is weird that he's going though since the last time he went to a big sporting event was the 2021 World Series specifically to do the tomahawk chop. Maybe he thinks Oklahoma will cheer for him.

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[Paul158]

Where did the wrestling forum go? Give it a break guys and just enjoy  this day.

[jross]

  On 3/18/2023 at 7:57 PM, buckshot said:

I'm sure he knows nothing about the sport of wrestling but he won't go to the basketball tournament because he thinks it will be a bunch of Black people. Wait until he finds out there is a Latino at 125, a Black guy at 133, a Black guy and a Latino at 141 and Black guy at 165, 174 and HWT. 

It is weird that he's going though since the last time he went to a big sporting event was the 2021 World Series specifically to do the tomahawk chop. Maybe he thinks Oklahoma will cheer for him.

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[Holtfan]

Gosh---what other forum can I come to and read about intolerance, hatred, bigoty.........and at the same time get a history lesson on Socrates and Plato?

Oh that's right.....just about everywhere else in the Interweb.   

[Paul158]

I guess the moderator has gone on vacation. What does any of this have to do with wrestling? 

[jross]

  On 3/18/2023 at 8:03 PM, Paul158 said:

Where did the wrestling forum go? Give it a break guys and just enjoy  this day.

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JUST SAY NO to double-clicking into discussions you feel are bad for you.

We do not have the power to move the discussion to the non wrestling forum...

OR install the extension and hide the discussion to avoid temptation.
 

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by jross

[One8alpha]

  On 3/18/2023 at 7:21 PM, billyhoyle said:

I'm not sure he will be received too fondly if he's introduced.  He's not a fan of the college-educated.  I remember Donald Rumsfeld being met with resounding boos when he was given an award at MSG a number of years ago. 

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Interesting perception.  I think most fans/participants/families of wrestling are hard working religious families with conservative values.  

[Paul158]

  On 3/18/2023 at 8:19 PM, One8alpha said:

Interesting perception.  I think most fans/participants/families of wrestling are hard working religious families with conservative values.  

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Be careful the sharks are beginning to circle right now. Have your harpoon ready.

[CHROMEBIRD]

Trump did campaign events with the Iowa team during the last presidential election. Nelson Brands seems fond of him. I am guessing he wanted to horn in on the spectacle that would have ensued if Spencer Lee finished as a 4-timer, so I would not be surprised if he bailed. Also would not be surprised if he made a boneheaded comment about the semifinal match.