US Mount Rushmore of Freestylers

[neweruser69]

John Smith

Kyle Snyder

Jordan Burroughs 

Bruce Baumgartner 

This seems pretty locked in to me for now, my question is - can Dake get on this list without OLY Gold? I'd say he's 5th on the list now.

[Lleynor]

I see a problem with him the same I do Burroughs; just one Oly medal. Yes Burroughs has a Gold, but that’s it. I hate seeing the lack of dominance from our GOATs, outside of John. And his career was done so quick. Back to Dake. If he medals in 27 and 28 in LA, he’s in. 
 

IMO, if Snyder gets Silver or Gold in 28, he’s 100% our all-time top. 

[jdw21]

Dake has two Olympic medals.  Both Bronze.

[flyingcement]

I will be in the minority but add Bobby Weaver

[juniorvarsity]

1 hour ago, Lleynor said:

I see a problem with him the same I do Burroughs; just one Oly medal. Yes Burroughs has a Gold, but that’s it. I hate seeing the lack of dominance from our GOATs, outside of John. And his career was done so quick. Back to Dake. If he medals in 27 and 28 in LA, he’s in. 
 

IMO, if Snyder gets Silver or Gold in 28, he’s 100% our all-time top. 

Who is your four on Mount Rushmore?

[Hammerlock3]

Remember when Taylor took his stab at GOAT status? The argument was Hassan Yazdani Charitit would have been the best ever if not for DT beating him a bunch of times, therefore through from weird transitive property stuff DT is the greatest of all time....Brooks really screwed it up for him.

[juniorvarsity]

Fun fact about Mount Rushmore - the four presidents carved into the mountain represent birth(George Wasington), growth(Thomas Jefferson), preservation(Abraham Lincoln), and development(Theodore Roosevelt) of the United States. Hard to say who to assign to those qualities for USA wrestling. 

[jdw21]

John Smith, Jordan Burroughs, Kyle Snyder, and Helen Maroulis.  Tough to leave Baumgartner off.  Taylor, Dake, and Gray next in line IMO.

Edited Tuesday at 01:23 AM by jdw21

[flyingcement]

any room on the list for Kenny Monday?

[RAFWiki]

17 minutes ago, juniorvarsity said:

Fun fact about Mount Rushmore - the four presidents carved into the mountain represent birth(George Wasington), growth(Thomas Jefferson), preservation(Abraham Lincoln), and development(Theodore Roosevelt) of the United States. Hard to say who to assign to those qualities for USA wrestling. 

Birth - Dan Gable

Growth - Helen Maroulis

Preservation - John Smith

Development - Jordan Burroughs

Edited Tuesday at 01:31 AM by RAFWiki

[Lleynor]

47 minutes ago, juniorvarsity said:

Who is your four on Mount Rushmore?

The four listed above would be mine as well. Dake getting a Gold in LA replaces Burroughs maybe. Smith going 6 for 6 is almost replaceable. 

[MPhillips]

55 minutes ago, juniorvarsity said:

Hard to say who to assign to those qualities for USA wrestling. 

There is a page here somewhere where it's been done.

[Hammerlock3]

37 minutes ago, Lleynor said:

The four listed above would be mine as well. Dake getting a Gold in LA replaces Burroughs maybe. Smith going 6 for 6 is almost replaceable. 

smith was also such a......wrestlers wrestler. So multi-dimensional, similar to taylor, but beyond the other people you'd compare him too. If the way they wrestled was a criteria I'd say smith takes that category.

[de4856]

Bruce Baumgartner, John Smith, Kyle Snyder. But number 4, that’s tough, many would say Jordan Burroughs, and I can’t really argue against it. However you can make an argument for Kyle Dake, David Taylor or Dan Gable to be the fourth guy on that mountain. Although Gable doesn’t have the same amount of hardware as the others, he is basically the birth of modern day Wrestling. We also have to remember that back in Gable’s day he wasn’t paid like today’s athletes, and If you read Gable’s book he trained in a barn wrestling the town folk. 

[Lleynor]

For the record, I meant to say irreplaceable on Smith. Not replaceable. 
 

It’s surreal to see how close one can be to replacing Burroughs, as dominant as he was. What sucks is his World Bronzes each year. His losses in those 3 years were all to the eventual champs. If only he’d been on the opposite side bracket. 
 

Speaking of that. Is Sidakov done? Don’t hear his name mentioned much in Russian chats. 

[WrestlingRasta]

12 hours ago, jdw21 said:

John Smith, Jordan Burroughs, Kyle Snyder, and Helen Maroulis.  Tough to leave Baumgartner off.  Taylor, Dake, and Gray next in line IMO.

Just curious but how do you leave the guy who is number one in total medals, number one in total olympic medals,  and tied for number one in olympic gold off?

Edited Tuesday at 01:40 PM by WrestlingRasta

[bnwtwg]

1 hour ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Just curious but how do you leave the guy who is number one in total medals, number one in total olympic medals,  and tied for number one in olympic gold off?

Same way Adeline Gray was left off - it's each person's personal opinion.

[WrestlingRasta]

9 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Same way Adeline Gray was left off - it's each person's personal opinion.

So then maybe we allow the person expressing the opinion i asked about to answer for themselves? 

[jdw21]

Since this a completely legitimate question, and it seems genuine, I'll give it a shot.  I may bounce around a bit.  As I stated, it is tough to leave him off.  I wouldn't disagree with anyone that says he belongs more than someone else.  The 13 World and Olympic medals is a good enough argument on its own.  And, unlike some posters that act like what they say is the end all be all, I'm well aware that my opinion doesn't mean a whole bunch.  All right, let's get at it...

If we're going strictly by most medals, John Smith would be gone.  I believe he belongs due to his 6 straight Golds, 2 being Olympic Gold, and his dominance.  I believe Helen Maroulis belongs due to her longevity and overcoming various health issues to win 12 World and Olympic medals, including 3 Olympic medals, one being Gold.  And, her absolutely epic win over a true legend of the sport, Saori Yoshida, ending a run of 13 straight World and Olympic Gold medals and denying her of her 4th Olympic Gold.  I believe Kyle Snyder belongs due his extreme consistency in earning 11 or 12 World and olympic Medal opportunites, including 6 World and Olympic Gold medals.  Many while dealing with the likes of the Abdulrashid Sadulaev.  I believe Jordan Burroughs belongs due to his 7 World and Olympic Gold medals with the ones at 74kg coming in some pretty loaded brackets.  He was also the face of USA wrestling for many years.  I don't have a single bad thing to say about Bruce Baumgartner and again wouldn't argue with anyone if they would prefer his face on the rock.  If I can nitpick or give my personal preferences, it's about the weight class and the era prior to the dissolution of the Soviet Union.  Regarding the Soviet Union, I understand the same could be said for John Smith.  Baumgartner was also amazingly consistent, as well.  Can I just have 5 people on the rock?

[LJB]

these types of discussions do absolutely nothing for me personally for a variety of reasons, but...

 

it did get me thinking of the dude that entered and won like 5 of the weights at the olympic trials in the 1910s-20s...

for the life of me i can not remember his name...

but there should at least be an honorable mention for just pure dominance and simply being the best example of "us" at the time...

[Caveira]

3 minutes ago, LJB said:

these types of discussions do absolutely nothing for me personally for a variety of reasons, but...

But…….    I’m commenting anyway 

[jdw21]

Robin Reed: American wrestler Robin Reed won a gold medal at 134 pounds in the 1924 Paris Olympics. Before those Games, during Pacific Northwest Olympic tryouts, he actually entered and won four different weight classes (ranging from 145 lbs to 191 lbs), though he didn't compete across five weights at the actual Olympics

 

[LJB]

1 minute ago, jdw21 said:

Robin Reed: American wrestler Robin Reed won a gold medal at 134 pounds in the 1924 Paris Olympics. Before those Games, during Pacific Northwest Olympic tryouts, he actually entered and won four different weight classes (ranging from 145 lbs to 191 lbs), though he didn't compete across five weights at the actual Olympics

 

[WrestlingRasta]

54 minutes ago, jdw21 said:

Since this a completely legitimate question, and it seems genuine, I'll give it a shot.  I may bounce around a bit.  As I stated, it is tough to leave him off.  I wouldn't disagree with anyone that says he belongs more than someone else.  The 13 World and Olympic medals is a good enough argument on its own.  And, unlike some posters that act like what they say is the end all be all, I'm well aware that my opinion doesn't mean a whole bunch.  All right, let's get at it...

If we're going strictly by most medals, John Smith would be gone.  I believe he belongs due to his 6 straight Golds, 2 being Olympic Gold, and his dominance.  I believe Helen Maroulis belongs due to her longevity and overcoming various health issues to win 12 World and Olympic medals, including 3 Olympic medals, one being Gold.  And, her absolutely epic win over a true legend of the sport, Saori Yoshida, ending a run of 13 straight World and Olympic Gold medals and denying her of her 4th Olympic Gold.  I believe Kyle Snyder belongs due his extreme consistency in earning 11 or 12 World and olympic Medal opportunites, including 6 World and Olympic Gold medals.  Many while dealing with the likes of the Abdulrashid Sadulaev.  I believe Jordan Burroughs belongs due to his 7 World and Olympic Gold medals with the ones at 74kg coming in some pretty loaded brackets.  He was also the face of USA wrestling for many years.  I don't have a single bad thing to say about Bruce Baumgartner and again wouldn't argue with anyone if they would prefer his face on the rock.  If I can nitpick or give my personal preferences, it's about the weight class and the era prior to the dissolution of the Soviet Union.  Regarding the Soviet Union, I understand the same could be said for John Smith.  Baumgartner was also amazingly consistent, as well.  Can I just have 5 people on the rock?

All very fair.  Appreciate it 

[ScottishSteel]

16 hours ago, jdw21 said:

John Smith, Jordan Burroughs, Kyle Snyder, and Helen Maroulis.  Tough to leave Baumgartner off.  Taylor, Dake, and Gray next in line IMO.

This is exactly where I'm at as well.