Reasonable Discussion: Privilege

[ThreePointTakedown]

 

What is privilege to you?

 

Who has more? Who has less?

 

What privileges did/do you have that helped you get where you are today?

 

Since its a nice day, let's take class outside. But please stay focused. I don't want to be yelling at you if you are staring off into the trees. 

 

 

[Bigbrog]

2 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

 

What is privilege to you?  Doesn't matter as you truly aren't going to try and truly understand.

 

Who has more? Who has less?  Again, doesn't matter what I or anyone else writes, unless it aligns exactly with your thought process, or what the "books" you were forced to read in college tell you to think, it will somehow be labeled bigoted/racists/or some other phoebe.

 

What privileges did/do you have that helped you get where you are today?  ZERO...unless you consider hard work a privilege?

 

Since its a nice day, let's take class outside. But please stay focused. I don't want to be yelling at you if you are staring off into the trees.   Take your own advice!

 

 

I'll give it a shot

[wrestlingguy]

Privilege-the ability to call anyone that doesn't agree with you a racist, homophobe, bigot, xenophobe, sexist, pig etc. .

 

Edited April 8 by wrestlingguy

[Gene Mills Fan]

2 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

 

What is privilege to you?   Getting something because you did something

 

Who has more? Who has less?  The one's who did something have more. The idle have less.

 

What privileges did/do you have that helped you get where you are today?   I got a scholarship on academic achievement which was less than my friend's scholarship because he was a minority.

 

Since its a nice day, let's take class outside. But please stay focused. I don't want to be yelling at you if you are staring off into the trees. You are really going to chastise Newton for watching that apple fall?

 

 

 

[mspart]

Driving is a privilege.  Don't pass the test, don't drive.   Or you go to the pokey. 

mspart  

[jross]

It is something already discussed.

 

[jross]

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-people-keep-talking-about-privilege-What-do-they-really-mean

[ionel]

5 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

 

What is privilege to you?

 

Who has more? Who has less?

 

What privileges did/do you have that helped you get where you are today?

 

Since its a nice day, let's take class outside. But please stay focused. I don't want to be yelling at you if you are staring off into the trees. 

 

 

I had the privilege of working 12 to 14 hour hard labor days to earn and save money to pay for my college education and then the privilege to work hard in those academic endeavors.  

Also my grandparents and dad and his sister grew up early years in a house with no electricity.  Dad & his sister walked over a mile to one room school, they didnt have a car early on for parents to take them and no bus in their rural area.

I had the privilege of growing up in a house with electricity and on a bus route for the 14 mi drive to town and school.

Edited April 8 by ionel

[Caveira]

I started working very young Around 12/13 as bus boy for cash as I was legally too young to work.  I had jobs all over….   Hardware stores, department stores, etc…. All of this was high school or before.    All to help pay for high school or brothers and sisters etc   

my dad was Leo but worked two extra jobs.  My mom worked in an office building.  

In college I had jobs as well as two part time jobs…. Internships, restaurants, whatever i could get a pay check for.   I wrestled as well which made this hard   

my privilege is I worked hard to get where I am at and I will be retiring young.  
 

 

Edited April 8 by Caveira

[Scouts Honor]

privilege is being able to do whatever one wants with no repercussion.

it doesn't happen in the direction you think it does.

[ThreePointTakedown]

16 hours ago, wrestlingguy said:

Privilege-the ability to call anyone that doesn't agree with you a racist, homophobe, bigot, xenophobe, sexist, pig etc. .

 

Near miss

[ThreePointTakedown]

16 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

I'll give it a shot

At least you don’t take yourself too serious. Thanks for the chuckles. 

[ThreePointTakedown]

16 hours ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

 

WThank you it seems as if you are being honest. 

 

'Getting something' what does that mean? Get what? And who gives it? 

What are things you could 'did/do' to get those things? 

 

Could privilege be https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/privilege

a right, exemption, or immunity granted as a particular benefit, advantage, or favor

or

a right or benefit given to some people but not others

or

the advantage that wealthy and powerful people have over other people in a society

or

a special opportunity to do something that causes a feeling of pride

kinda like a thing you didn't earn, but lucked into based on a few factors like when you were born, where you were born, or who you were born to? 

 

'The ones who did something have more', do you really believe that? Like everyone with great or any wealth or security in their life worked really hard or at least harder than others worked to get that wealth or security? 

 

Like two people born in the same neighborhood, one worked harder and earned more. That makes sense. 

If two people born at the same time. One in a wealthy neighborhood. One in a poor neighborhood. They both work equally hard. Would they both have the same chance to attain the same level of security/wealth in their life? 

 

Scholarship: interesting. Not that i don't believe you but can we explore that for a minute. Are you 100% sure it was because they are a minority? Was that the scholarship they applied for or something? Was 'because you're a minority' on the acceptance letter? 

 

Newton: I don't care if that apple falls on your head, pay attention. 

13 hours ago, ionel said:

I had the privilege of working 12 to 14 hour hard labor days to earn and save money to pay for my college education and then the privilege to work hard in those academic endeavors.  

Also my grandparents and dad and his sister grew up early years in a house with no electricity.  Dad & his sister walked over a mile to one room school, they didnt have a car early on for parents to take them and no bus in their rural area.

I had the privilege of growing up in a house with electricity and on a bus route for the 14 mi drive to town and school.

Agreed. You had privilege compared to your relatives. Are you better than them or deserve more because you've achieved more than they were able to? 

13 hours ago, Caveira said:

I started working very young Around 12/13 as bus boy for cash as I was legally too young to work.  I had jobs all over….   Hardware stores, department stores, etc…. All of this was high school or before.    All to help pay for high school or brothers and sisters etc   

my dad was Leo but worked two extra jobs.  My mom worked in an office building.  

In college I had jobs as well as two part time jobs…. Internships, restaurants, whatever i could get a pay check for.   I wrestled as well which made this hard   

my privilege is I worked hard to get where I am at and I will be retiring young.  
 

 

Interesting take on 'privilege'. If all this is true. It sounds like either you were quite driven as a young person to earn your way or your family was in a bad spot and needed you to step up to help fill in the gaps. Some would say, 'good for you' for rolling up your sleeves and earning whatever you could to help. Also, you probably had to 'grow up' a lot sooner than you otherwise would've had to if you were just a pinch better off. This struggle may have led to some trauma in your life. You seemed to have the resources around you, the jobs, that you took advantage of to fix the problems that you could in your situation. I think you are over looking the fact that you existed, at that time, in a place where those jobs were even available. If they weren't and you had to take a bus that you couldn't afford to get to those jobs then you would've been able to earn money for your family. You could say, 'but then I would've just...' and I don't doubt that you probably would have done any or all of those things. But the experiment always wins. If all of those options that you can think of as options to get money were not available for one reason or another then you couldn't do those things. Having those things available to you IS the privilege. You don't seem to get that. It might not be much privilege but it is some. We are products of our surroundings. Seems like you don't believe that and I'm curious as to why? 
 

What is a Leo?

13 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

privilege is being able to do whatever one wants with no repercussion.

it doesn't happen in the direction you think it does.

I think you're close there. Seems like you're trying to be glib about it but maybe accidently hit the nail. 

What direction do I think? 

[Bigbrog]

Even if you are right TPT (i.e., privilege is based on what situation you were born into and what "things" are available to you because of where you born into), so what??  Truly what does that matter?  People have no control over the situation they are born into and what "things" are available to them.  One of my best friends since freshmen year of high school was born into drastically different situation than I was...so what?  Is he supposed to feel bad about that?  Not use the situation he was born in to continue to better himself just because someone, like me, wasn't born into that situation?  It is questions like these, and many more, that make the whole conversation around this fictitious "privilege" thing worthless.  It does nothing but allow people to use it as a crutch, or excuse.  And that does them no good whatsoever.  How about people born into bad situations, like me, we encourage them and tell them they can make their life better no matter what the circumstances are??  Instead of telling them they are victims, tell them they are strong for being able to thrive in such an environment?  Tell them hard work DOES pay off, and the world isn't out to get them?  

I am truly asking you TPT, do you think over-analyzing and making people believe there are inherent "privileges" for groups of people over others it is making things "better" for people born into bad situations??  

[WrestlingRasta]

11 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

that make the whole conversation around this fictitious "privilege" thing worthless.  It does nothing but allow people to use it as a crutch, or excuse.  And that does them no good whatsoever. 

Both can be,and are true.  Privilege is real, it is not fictitious, but it also used, more and more today, as a crutch and excuse.    Example.....

 

Person A- Born into a very wealthy family.  At HS graduation, parents tell child that if the go to college and complete a degree, upon graduation we will set you up for your own business and cover the first year operating expenses.   That is privilege, and it is real.  The fortune of being born into fortune makes this person's path much easier than most. 

Person B- Wants to run their own business.   Parents had to work hard just to afford to raise them.  No money for higher education.  But does not want to get into all the loans of burying debt college can be.  Starts small, saves, works hard and smart. Eventually opens his/her business.  Struggles for the first year, as most businesses do, but the hard work and smart work pays off.  Five years later, buys their first home, comfortably.  Starts a family.

Person C- Born into the same wealth as person A and given the same offer after HS.   Goes to college, parties, never goes to class, never graduates.  Parents stand firm, works at McDonalds for the next 15 years.

Person D - Born into the same situation as Person B.   Hates life because his high school friend was promised a business after graduation.  Blames their misery on the well being of others.  Believes it doesn't matter what they do, nothing will change because the cards are stacked against them.  Works at 7-11 for the next 15 years.

 

Two examples of privilege, two examples of not.  Each has their own outcomes.  The difference isn't the privilege, the difference is how the person plays the cards they are dealt.   One thing people often get mixed up.......it is not the happiness that is guaranteed in our constitution, it is the pursuit that is guaranteed.   Whether or not you take advantage of that guarantee is a personal.....or should I say series of....personal choices.  

[jross]

Person D is the loser of the bunch.  Accountability and agency, the belief that your choices and efforts matter, is the single biggest differentiator between people who build lives and those who don't.

My role as a father is to teach both in all situations.

"You can't control X, you can control your response.  What is your next move?"

"Why are you talking about X behavior, when the feedback was on your behavior?"

[JimmySpeaks]

31 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

Even if you are right TPT (i.e., privilege is based on what situation you were born into and what "things" are available to you because of where you born into), so what??  Truly what does that matter?  People have no control over the situation they are born into and what "things" are available to them.  One of my best friends since freshmen year of high school was born into drastically different situation than I was...so what?  Is he supposed to feel bad about that?  Not use the situation he was born in to continue to better himself just because someone, like me, wasn't born into that situation?  It is questions like these, and many more, that make the whole conversation around this fictitious "privilege" thing worthless.  It does nothing but allow people to use it as a crutch, or excuse.  And that does them no good whatsoever.  How about people born into bad situations, like me, we encourage them and tell them they can make their life better no matter what the circumstances are??  Instead of telling them they are victims, tell them they are strong for being able to thrive in such an environment?  Tell them hard work DOES pay off, and the world isn't out to get them?  

I am truly asking you TPT, do you think over-analyzing and making people believe there are inherent "privileges" for groups of people over others it is making things "better" for people born into bad situations??  

Congrats on putting your self respect and self accountability to the test and making it happen for yourself.  The ability to pursue happiness in the greatest country on the planet is there for everyone if they choose to take it.   TPT and the left love the victim mentality and the built in excuses that come with it. His victim, race, gender card is definitely platinum.  

[WrestlingRasta]

8 minutes ago, jross said:

Person D is the loser of the bunch.  Accountability and agency, the belief that your choices and efforts matter, is the single biggest differentiator between people who build lives and those who don't.

My role as a father is to teach both in all situations.

"You can't control X, you can control your response.  What is your next move?"

"Why are you talking about X behavior, when the feedback was on your behavior?"

Would agree with all of this (with one exception, below) particularly the highlighted part.  This is precisely how I raised my children, which....I don't mean this to sound like some competition here....but why "Mom" was the fun parent as they were kids, but Dad is more appreciated as they are out in the real world. 

 

The one exception: I believe person C takes that trophy, but only by a slim margin over D, because they had all the resources easily available to them most don't have, and squandered it all away.   Another way of putting it, D chose the path of defeat, C created that path.  

[jross]

16 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

The one exception: I believe person C takes that trophy, but only by a slim margin over D, because they had all the resources easily available to them most don't have, and squandered it all away.   Another way of putting it, D chose the path of defeat, C created that path.  

That is an understandable viewpoint.  I see person C as foolish and passive but they do not grow hateful resentment.  Incredibly frustrating to witness person C's choices.  They did not create the path... they just did not act.  Person D is actively corrosive to society.  They reject agency and accountability.  IMO the rejection of agency is more destructive than wasted privilege.

[WrestlingRasta]

8 minutes ago, jross said:

That is an understandable viewpoint.  I see person C as foolish and passive but they do not grow hateful resentment.  Incredibly frustrating to witness person C's choices.  They did not create the path... they just did not act.  Person D is actively corrosive to society.  They reject agency and accountability.  IMO the rejection of agency is more destructive than wasted privilege.

Fair.  

Just clarification, in saying "they created the path" I was referring to the path of defeat.  Meaning, they were basically being handed a path to success, whereas through their actions...as in you said did not act on that opportunity handed them.... created the path to defeat.   But your overall point is very fair. 

[mspart]

I have 5 sons and 1 daughter.   My sons were born to us and our daughter is adopted from when we lived in Hawaii.   She is the product of drug abuse and serial neglect until we got her at 13 months of age.   

My oldest son worked for men who owned their own businesses and were quite affluent and took a lesson from that.   He went to college in business and when they told him he might be able to make $150k a year, he said nuts to that.  He would make much more.   He has worked like a dog to get there and is there.   He makes way more than I do, like double or triple.  He never graduated from college.  

My daughter has fetal alcohol syndrome and with that severe learning diabilities.   Her ability to reason is quite impaired.   She does know the difference between wrong and right, but it doesn't really mean much to her.   Whatever is easiest is the way to go.   It is sad but there she is.   We have given her the best chance we could.   She is the hardest worker of the bunch except for my oldest son.   With her impairment she became a shift manager at Walgreens.   Why?  We were floored.   She got that because she showed up all the time, took extra shifts, and was always there.   She had to watch people rob the store blind while police would do nothing and the store forbade anyone from stopping it.   They even took the cash register at least one time.   So she saw no problem giving her employee discount to people who were actually paying for stuff.   She got fired.   Walgreens can stand thousands of dollars of loss every day, but can't stand if an employee shares her discount with paying customers.   I don't understand that logic.   But I do understand it if they didn't allow all the theft to happen.   Be that as it may, that is due to her fetal alcohol syndrome.  In her logic, she was just helping people.   I get that too.   She can be very kind and loving.   She is now with a guy that is beginning as a general contractor.  He is teaching her how to do flooring, and fencing, and trim etc etc.   She is catching on and excited to learn these new things.  She is making a better situation than her first 13 months of life would predict.  What's her privilege?

All the other 4 boys are satisfied working for the man.   Not that there's anything wrong with that.  I work for the man.   But they do not have the inner drive to succeed like their older brother.   I don't either.    They had the same privilege but will never (maybe something will change) have his inner drive to succeed and keep trying after failure.   One graduated college, one has not and probably will not but should, one is in tech school, one is kind of moseying his way through college sort of.   

I don't have the entrepreneur's spirit.   I don't have that in me.   My son does, but he didn't get that from me.   Is that privilege?   Or is that just him?   Is he more privileged than I am?  I have not done poorly.   I am ready to retire and it looks like I have prepared well enough to make it work out quite comfortably for my wife and I.   But I'm in my 38th year of employment and my next B day will be my 65th.   So I've been here awhile.   My son is already semi retired.   

All came from the same family but are quite different on what they are doing.   How does privilege account for that?

mspart

[1032004]

Privilege is definitely real.   But it’s more socioeconomic than racial.  It’s just that between whites & blacks, whites are more likely to start off at a higher socioeconomic status.  Or even something as simple as having two parents at home is a privilege which is less common among blacks.

I’ve had similar discussions on a different forum, and conservatives continue to deny that privilege favoring whites is real.  Some will admit that “black disadvantage” is real however, which is really the same thing.

[Caveira]

5 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Or even something as simple as having two parents at home is a privilege

A choice.   It’s a choice not a priv 

[jross]

3 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Privilege is definitely real.   But it’s more socioeconomic than racial.  It’s just that between whites & blacks, whites are more likely to start off at a higher socioeconomic status.  Or even something as simple as having two parents at home is a privilege which is less common among blacks.

I’ve had similar discussions on a different forum, and conservatives continue to deny that privilege favoring whites is real.  Some will admit that “black disadvantage” is real however, which is really the same thing.

I'm open to learning.

How does observing a difference prove the cause is racism?  Denying white privilege and admitting black disadvantage is not equivalent.

[braves121]

7 minutes ago, Caveira said:

A choice.   It’s a choice not a priv 

A Child has no choice if they have both parents that’s why he said it’s a privilege