RAF is filth/garbage/trash/slop

[JimmyCinnabon]

On 3/27/2026 at 7:18 AM, forkemaz said:

They have no faith in wrestling standing on its own. No self respecting sports league would have booked Arman vs Georgio 2. In all leagues, that aren't money grab garbage, competitiors who disregard the rules and act unsportsmanlike to the point of  brawling are suspended, banned, or fined. Rewarding them with a main event is disgusting. 

On top of that it's so incredible transparently not about wrestling. The match is booked for one single click bait reason. It's NOT a title rematch, it's NOT for a number 1 contender slot (as far as I can tell RAF doesn't even have rankings, more proof it's just slop and not a sport a league), the match itself was not controversial (the right guy won). It's booked solely for the "will they won't they" throw hands again after the whistle. It flys in the face of everything wrestling stands for.

On top of that, the co main is two washed up loud mouths one of which is not a wrestler. Imagine booking these two matches and touting them over Dake vs Keck and Snyder for Taz... Willie also floated wanting Brooks the cheater in the league. It's just a gross joke top to bottom.

 

I hope Willie, Bishoff cookie, Askren, and the others involved see this. They can clutch their pearls and pretend they're trying to grow wrestling while dragging it through the mud with this pure crap style booking for money. And what's crazy is they have been a saying how RAF is exceeding expectations since like the second or third show. Which if that's true why stoop to this kind of cash grab off bad behavior? Why not focus on good wrestling if you were finding success with it? Thank you for your attention to this matter.

They are doing this because not enough people care about wrestling. However, enough people might care about seeing a train wreck (these two guys fighting each other). 

[The_KC_Godfather]

42 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I didn't see Willie in the scrum this time!

That broken leg changed his life...

[rsotelo]

I think it is the drama and the script that made WWE / WWF so popular.  Why not the RAF?  Heck, the UFC, which makes a ton of money for the promoters and top fighters was almost DEAD until they started a TV show on Spike TV with all the drama and script.

[alex1fly]

6 minutes ago, rsotelo said:

I think it is the drama and the script that made WWE / WWF so popular.  Why not the RAF?  Heck, the UFC, which makes a ton of money for the promoters and top fighters was almost DEAD until they started a TV show on Spike TV with all the drama and script.

There's something to this. Gotta get eyeballs on it, or it's likely dead in the water. I can see the "it's disgraceful" argument for sure - however I'm doubtful that RAF has the kind of cultural clout to significantly impact the public's perception of our sport in a negative way. At least compared to something like the fact that WWE/WWF is called "wrestling" and we all have explain that its college/high school/folkstyle/freestyle/Olympic wrestling that we're into.

[1032004]

Is it safe to assume that Georgio has been cut with the allegations of him throwing his future brother in law through a table?  Guessing Askren may have been right that he’s on roids 

[JMill]

5 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Is it safe to assume that Georgio has been cut with the allegations of him throwing his future brother in law through a table?  Guessing Askren may have been right that he’s on roids 

Why do people have combined bachelor-bachelorette parties? Isn’t that antithetical? 

[ScottishSteel]

7 hours ago, JMill said:

Why do people have combined bachelor-bachelorette parties? Isn’t that antithetical? 

It took 6 pages but finally someone is asking the right question!

[BruceyB]

On 6/15/2026 at 11:33 AM, alex1fly said:

There's something to this. Gotta get eyeballs on it, or it's likely dead in the water. I can see the "it's disgraceful" argument for sure - however I'm doubtful that RAF has the kind of cultural clout to significantly impact the public's perception of our sport in a negative way. At least compared to something like the fact that WWE/WWF is called "wrestling" and we all have explain that its college/high school/folkstyle/freestyle/Olympic wrestling that we're into.

I was thinking about this yesterday and I feel like it's similar to what John McEnroe did in tennis in the 80s.  One of my uncles would only watch tennis when McEnroe was playing in hopes of a blow-up. I also have watched old McEnroe blowups online.. I've never looked up highlights from Federer or Nadal. I think this is a perfect example because it shows that at the end of the day, arguing about whether or not it's good for the sport is a waste of time because I don't think it is either.

My uncle never became a tennis fan, but they did get some extra viewership from those like him when McEnroe was playing. Most people that watch for the chaos in RAF aren't going to become wrestling fans and will stop watching as soon as the chaos disappears.

Tennis did not suffer any negative consequences due to McEnroe's behavior despite the purists calling it a disgrace to what is supposed to be a gentlemanly sport. The wrestling fans are going to continue to watch the sport regardless of what RAF does. It is not going to "hurt" the sport in any meaningful way.

One of my biggest issues with RAF is that it seems to be more of a money grab where athletes are competing without proper dedication and preparation. If I see Musukaev on a card, I know that there is a 0% chance I'm going to see world champion Musukaev show up. Instead it's going to be an out of shape Musukaev wrestling up 2 weight classes and collecting a paycheck. Zahid Valencia gets beat 10-2 by Parker Keckeisen, Real Woods can't beat a 36 year old J.O.. I don't care to watch two guys wrestle an exhibition. It's hard to be invested in an event where the athlete's are competing half-heartedly.

 

[MPhillips]

4 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

I've never looked up highlights from Federer or Nadal.

I don't believe you'll find many if any of those two being outrageous in any way except their play...

[BruceyB]

2 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

I don't believe you'll find many if any of those two being outrageous in any way except their play...

The King of Clay is one of my favorite nicknames in all of sports history.

[JMill]

4 hours ago, BruceyB said:

One of my biggest issues with RAF is that it seems to be more of a money grab where athletes are competing without proper dedication and preparation. If I see Musukaev on a card, I know that there is a 0% chance I'm going to see world champion Musukaev show up. Instead it's going to be an out of shape Musukaev wrestling up 2 weight classes and collecting a paycheck. Zahid Valencia gets beat 10-2 by Parker Keckeisen, Real Woods can't beat a 36 year old J.O.. I don't care to watch two guys wrestle an exhibition. It's hard to be invested in an event where the athlete's are competing half-heartedly.

People complain that our top athletes and teams don’t compete enough because their sole focus is on Worlds (and NCAA tournament at the college level), and talk about how it’s bad for the sport. Now that they are competing more you’re mad that they aren’t in championship form when they show up. I think it takes humility, not half-heartedness, for them to put it on the line to give the fans a show when they know they’re not in top form. 

[LJB]

1 hour ago, JMill said:

People complain

should have just stopped there...

concise and to the point...

[JMill]

Yeah.. yeah..

We just need to stop being our own worst enemy. It’s an uphill battle for a niche sport to evolve into a mainstream sport, especially when the people within work against its progress.

To again compare RAF to Grand Slam Track, track’s failed attempt at a mainstream pro league (Diamond League and, before that, Golden League never really tried to be “mainstream”), that’s precisely what they did.

GST put a superstar sprinter in charge, not a superstar promoter/businessman… Eric Bischoff has certainly had some detractors.

GST had the opportunity to bring in non-traditional sprinters like Tyreek Hill, iShowSpeed, etc. to draw in some eyeballs, but the purists did not want to “cheapen” the sport. I’m pretty sure that’s how this thread started.

GST tweaked the rules to make it more palatable for the audience, and the purists scoffed at that as well… Definitely have seen complaints about three periods, easier to understand criteria and no challenges (most of the time… maybe main events get them).

Track is notorious for the “only one event a year matters” mindset, and their stars didn’t show up, and the ones who did weren’t setting PR’s, so the fans said it’s not worth watching them “practice”. Hmm…

Watching GST implode made me less than hopeful RAF could pull it off, given the similarities of the respective communities. Thankfully, RAF is overcoming those in our community whose track counterparts succeeded in bringing down GST. Niche sports tend to have people in their communities who want their sports to stay niche, as if it makes them special for belonging. A community that is small because nobody wants to be involved in it doesn’t make it exclusive. 

[bnwtwg]

8 hours ago, JMill said:

Yeah.. yeah..

We just need to stop being our own worst enemy. It’s an uphill battle for a niche sport to evolve into a mainstream sport, especially when the people within work against its progress.

To again compare RAF to Grand Slam Track, track’s failed attempt at a mainstream pro league (Diamond League and, before that, Golden League never really tried to be “mainstream”), that’s precisely what they did.

GST put a superstar sprinter in charge, not a superstar promoter/businessman… Eric Bischoff has certainly had some detractors.

GST had the opportunity to bring in non-traditional sprinters like Tyreek Hill, iShowSpeed, etc. to draw in some eyeballs, but the purists did not want to “cheapen” the sport. I’m pretty sure that’s how this thread started.

GST tweaked the rules to make it more palatable for the audience, and the purists scoffed at that as well… Definitely have seen complaints about three periods, easier to understand criteria and no challenges (most of the time… maybe main events get them).

Track is notorious for the “only one event a year matters” mindset, and their stars didn’t show up, and the ones who did weren’t setting PR’s, so the fans said it’s not worth watching them “practice”. Hmm…

Watching GST implode made me less than hopeful RAF could pull it off, given the similarities of the respective communities. Thankfully, RAF is overcoming those in our community whose track counterparts succeeded in bringing down GST. Niche sports tend to have people in their communities who want their sports to stay niche, as if it makes them special for belonging. A community that is small because nobody wants to be involved in it doesn’t make it exclusive. 

Great analogy with GST. But you left out the parts about the largest funding hanging in the balance of Kingston, not paying prior or post, and the founder keeping the money for himself.

But overall you nailed the anology.

[JMill]

19 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Great analogy with GST. But you left out the parts about the largest funding hanging in the balance of Kingston, not paying prior or post, and the founder keeping the money for himself.

But overall you nailed the anology.

GST was the Fyre Fest of sports leagues on so many levels, but it certainly didn’t have to be. Track is one of the most watched and expensive to attend sports at the Olympics. It’s universal and easy to understand. 

[dragit]

Just pointing out with reference to the title of this thread that as of now, the top 6 most recent commented threads in the international forum are all about RAF -- on the day before what is traditionally the biggest domestic freestyle matches of the year at Final X.  RAF must be doing something right. 

[BruceyB]

On 6/17/2026 at 2:01 PM, JMill said:

People complain that our top athletes and teams don’t compete enough because their sole focus is on Worlds (and NCAA tournament at the college level), and talk about how it’s bad for the sport. Now that they are competing more you’re mad that they aren’t in championship form when they show up. I think it takes humility, not half-heartedness, for them to put it on the line to give the fans a show when they know they’re not in top form. 

I'm not mad about anything. I am simply stating that it hurts the product when wrestlers are treating the event like an exhibition. I watch a lot of wrestling, and I don't watch RAF because it doesn't interest me to see who wins a relatively meaningless match where it's likely that competitors aren't going to be at their best. 

I watched the first card and saw a lot of lopsided match-ups and guys clearly past their prime. It was fine, but not something I felt I needed to see again. I hear updates on FRL, and so far, there haven't been any results that made me sorry that I haven't tuned into another card. 

I might be in the minority here, but Parker beating Zahid at RAF actually did the organization a huge disservice. I love Parker Keckeisen, but him beating Zahid 10-2 shows just how meaningless and irrelevant the results at RAF are.

I also disagree that it takes humility for them to put it on the line.. I think it takes a solid paycheck and no consequences for taking a loss.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

12 hours ago, dragit said:

Just pointing out with reference to the title of this thread that as of now, the top 6 most recent commented threads in the international forum are all about RAF -- on the day before what is traditionally the biggest domestic freestyle matches of the year at Final X.  RAF must be doing something right. 

Dumb.

Unless you think clickbait "must be doing something right" because it generates interest.

In that case, even more dumb.

[JMill]

7 hours ago, BruceyB said:

I watch a lot of wrestling, and I don't watch RAF because it doesn't interest me to see who wins a relatively meaningless match where it's likely that competitors aren't going to be at their best. 

This type of thinking is why the National Duals are trash, the All-Star dual is garbage, and top ten dual meets are filled with ducking filth. 

[LJB]

i think it is adorable when anonymous forum nerds decide how wrestlers are "treating" any competition...

 

[BruceyB]

3 hours ago, LJB said:

i think it is adorable when anonymous forum nerds decide how wrestlers are "treating" any competition...

 

How would you explain Keck dominating Zahid?

[BruceyB]

3 hours ago, JMill said:

This type of thinking is why the National Duals are trash, the All-Star dual is garbage, and top ten dual meets are filled with ducking filth. 

College wrestling is by far the best product in wrestling for a reason. It's the only place where wrestlers are wrestling at close to peak performance on a (close to) weekly basis. 

[Simpleman424]

4 hours ago, BruceyB said:

How would you explain Keck dominating Zahid?

I’d leave it alone…the guy talks like that on every thread. He’s either the alpha of all alphas or one of the most insecure guys I’ve listened to. I haven’t decided yet…

[Simpleman424]

On 6/15/2026 at 10:47 AM, JimmyCinnabon said:

They are doing this because not enough people care about wrestling. However, enough people might care about seeing a train wreck (these two guys fighting each other). 

It’s good to see you back Jimmy!

[LJB]

26 minutes ago, Simpleman424 said:

I’d leave it alone…the guy talks like that on every thread. He’s either the alpha of all alphas or one of the most insecure guys I’ve listened to. I haven’t decided yet…