scourge165

That's the guy. Looked like he was pretty competitive with some really tough kids...as did Estrada. And those brothers at Michigan look pretty good. That's the weight Aden Valencia was supposed to be at(somehow he was initially listed or registered at that weight). I mean, if that's not proof California is the best Wrestling State and produces just the best, most hard nosed Wrestlers, I don't know what is! All that talent in just ONE division? Incredible.

I'll guess Iowa, but if I'm Iowa, I'm throwing Estrada out there. That kid is a hammer and while he wasn't a big name recruit, he's a stud. Close to being a 4X Cali Champ(though...I'm unclear on the 1st one and how he won that one) but he was in a weight with the Tony Montana brothers from Michigan and 5 of the top 12 kids in the Country when got upset by a fellow Wisconsin commit at the time. So...Wisconsin had 2 of the top 5 recruits at that weight in the Semis...and by 5 minutes after that match, they'd flipped to Iowa and I believe Michigan, but could be wrong.

Yup. Also Me-5:11PM Now 5:12PM And I just stepped away so Me at 5:13 Still...saying he has 2 more shots. Where's the confusion?

I definitely think Connor "closed the gap" on Barr. Will he ever be able to actually challenge him? Probably not, but I have little doubt he improved a lot over his Freshmen year. Will he actually be able to beat a guy who took a 2nd as a Freshmen? Unlikely...but it'd be cool to see, wouldn't it? I also wonder what it'd take for Cael to start Mirasola over Barr. It'd just be interesting. There's not much interesting about PSU beyond margin of victory and how many champs they can get.

Way. Even he has said he had 3 years...going into this last tournament. He's not getting a medical. He was more than 30% into the season and the injury has to be unavoidable. If they're ever going to deny one, it's to him and his VERY avoidable injury.

I respect PSU...I'm not a fan, but I do respect them for the way they go about their busniness. But if they bring him in to Wrestle...what I assume would be HWT, I'd lose a lot of respect. Speaking of which; This one made me like this kid a lot more. That was funny!

Max...maybe. Ben is a non-starter from everything I've heard. I'm not in the know, but...I know people in the know who know and they're reliable. And yes, I know that sounds very much like 'my sisters, cousins, uncles, new GFs son said,' but it's really just MY very good friend, his former teammate and close friend, he's closely with McIntosh. They don't want Ben, Ben is making more and has more freedom running AWA. Max is less outspoken. They used to joke about how Max was very neat, did his homework early, Ben was messy, kinda did his homework later. I'm making a jump there, I get that, but also seems like the type of mentality you need from a HC. Oh...and he's a National Champ who could bring Ben in to help with the RTC as that IS one of the things he's said he wants to do. Now you get Parker, Keegan, Hopke and some of those guys going to the RTC and...that could build on itself. Not NLWC like, but...it'd be good. But I doubt it. But THAT is how you rebuild Wisconsin and do it while appeasing Askren without having Ben run the program(but still getting a good amount of credit for it...which would be justified). I'm guessing with the assault claim dropped, he would be eligible to come back to school. I know a Badger Football player who was kicked out after an accusation(one that went to trial and was an egregiously bad prosecution and really messed up as just the most cursory investigation disproved the bulk of their case, but that's a longer story). Anyway, after the trial, he was let back in. And then he sued the hell outta the school and they settled. They're pretty big for '84 at this point. Probably both '97, but if they want to Wrestle together, they almost certainly need to leave. Though...you would think Connor has closed the gap on Barr. There's a bigger learning curve for a True Freshmen vs a RS Freshmen. It almost certainly won't happen, but that'd be pretty cool, huh? One Freshmen knocks a returning runner up out of the lineup? And then Barr has to go 184 and the two rivals have to Wrestle off for the spot?

Now that's a curve ball...unless he starts reading the History of the Mormons and he doesn't get past the part where they frown upon harems of young child brides and he thinks Brinham Young is an order rather than a person...because I could definitely see the latter being possible...if not probably in that scenario.

No, the expression "major curveball" infers something unexpected happens. So... like AJ Ferrari gives Ted Talk on consent or Jimmy creates thought provoking thread. This...this would not qualify as a curveball so much as a...'how many years is he getting,' type situation?

He already lost a year. So 2 more shots(which is wild enough).

Then that's the most dominant obviously. Especially if you're doing it at HWT(the Techs) as very few score points.

The context was me saying a tech is more dominant than a pin. That was the context. Because it's more dominant. 22-6 looks better than a fall You might have to just...live with me not agreeing with you here. I know this may seem crazy... 2-No, we're not talking about scenarios we "envision," remember? You didn't like that, right? I can name dozens of times a Wrestler got "pinned," without getting dominated. I can't think of a tech fall that wasn't a dominant win. Remember that "dominant" Nick Piccininni win over Spencer Lee? Yeah...I don't either. Yeah, the one who beats Gable Stevenson. As it stands, it almost didn't as the committee voted for Starocci.

Jimmy...I'm not only not clicking on that link, but if anyone was going to come up with a lame "April Fools," you're the LAST guy who should. You're the April 2nd to March 31st fool. Leave a day for someone else.

Yeah, I'm talking about exactly what I'm talking about and you not liking it...I feel like you think that has a bigger impact than it does. Did you not say we're not talking about some scenario I "envision?" I think a tech is more dominant(picture that like black twitter where someone puts clapping hands in between each word as I don't care to). 22-6 vs a pin in a 3-2 match. LOL...I don't know what is so difficult for you to grasp here. Tell me again which is worth more in a duel(which I guess makes a FF more impressive also!)

Yeah, that was a guy who wanted to "pre-emptively" keep Starocci off the Mt Rushmore of Wrestlers, so he made a huge deal out of the Ferrari match. I'd say the Hodge voting suggests you're not too far in the minority. I said I thought a tech showed more dominance than a pin and...that position needed to be "defended." I wanted to see it split. I thought Starocci earned a Hodge...but Bo Nickal's whining doesn't really help his case.

By this logic...Gable probably should have still won it.

I'm not a "Carter was robber," person, I knew Hendrickson would win it when he beat Gable. I did say I thought based on this year Mesenbrink was the most dominant. There was a wider gap between him and every other '65 all year. I would have give it to Carter because he's never won it, he won 5 Titles, he beat Keck twice(I think taking him on in the All-Star Classic took balls) and I think he's underrated...somehow. But I would have given it to both. I think Wyatt deserved it with Stevenson, but...I just thought it should have been split.

The HWT won because he beat Gable...I don't think he wins it if his opponent is Connor Medberry or Greg Kerkvliet. Stevenson had 3 pins this year and...10 techs. Are we saying if Gable doesn't get taken down in the last 15 seconds he loses the Hodge this year as a result of fewer pins? Maybe the biggest upset of all-time determined this award...pretending otherwise is...kinda silly.

I didn't envision Rob Rohn, I...visioned him with my actual eyes. I also didn't envision Mendez and Hardy. Did Tony Ramos dominate Spencer Lee, or was it a big move at the end of the match? I don't know how to make this any simpler. Taking someone down repeatedly...against their will...is more dominant than a pin. That's my take. I "contended" with your argument, I've made mine. What exactly do you suppose we'll gain if we keep going in circles here? And I KNOW you're playing dumb because...you can obviously make a lot of stupid arguments. Why didn't Tony Ramos just CHOOSE to be up by 12 points going into the 3rd period vs Lee, or with did Rohn CHOOSE to get down in the match? This choice thing is nonsense. I think beating someone by 15 points or more...is more dominant than a pin. That's it. That's the end of my entire opinion on this. You can accept it or not, you can't say I didn't "contend" with your argument or point or that I ignored it.

I did "contend" with your arugment then. You just didn't like it.

Please show me where I said ANYTHING about his pins "not being dominant?" I think Tech's show more dominance. That you have now made me aware they're not worth as much in a duel or tournament as a pin is...truly shocking and new information to me! LOL.... This isn't a difficult concept. A pin can be one sequence in which you come out ahead on a guy. It's hard to get a 15 point lead without dominating someone. It's NOT nearly as hard to end up with a fall in a close match.

Rob Rohn already settled the "techs are more dominant than pins" debate. You can get pinned without getting dominated. Hard to get teched without getting dominated. Bo Nickal is...insufferable though. I thought given the times they split it...they should have split it this year. But Wyatt winning it hardly means it's "meaningless." He WAS undefeated and he...did earn it. And who was the HWT they "gave" it to a few years ago? Is he talking about Gable still? Because he kinda earned it(though...not a ton of pins IIRC).

I'm sure they'll make him earn the job, but I'd be surprised if he wasn't on the two deep. Iowa gets very few recruits of his caliber and he was the #1 in his class, but...they have had a couple other good LB recruits come in...and I suppose it's possible he was a bit over-hyped because of his track and Wrestling background...I guess we'll have to see.

Yeah...the arrogance of youth. I was trying to scratch the middle of my back the other day and my shoulder popped out. These kids are more flexible, but when you stretch a rubber band enough, over and over...it's going to loosen it's elasticity and then it's going to tear. Some of these really are on the athlete though. And Askren's guys...I'm sure he's had guys injured, but he did seem to have a few things going for him. He would go out there vs Jake Herbert who looked like Drago from Rocky and Askren...did not. But he was like Gumby, his knees and shoulders bent in ways they shouldn't have and he had preternatural grip strength. I remember he and Herbert Wrestled and Askren would be on his belly, Herbert on his hip, full heavy hips, pulling Askren's arms up so he's reaching back...and he wasn't able to break his lock. It was insane. Nobody else holds on, Herbert scores on anyone else. But, I would imagine that's a bit part of the "play wrestling," as well.

What happen to Robbie Howard? Is he trying to rebuild his shoulder and come back for one more run?