scourge165

I'll have you know I'm both broke and a never was...don't you feel like a fool...

Well...there ya go. I'm more focused on the match, so if it benefits those who aren't fans, great. None of us need the color commentary. We know what a good scramble is or a "BIG RETURN TO THE RESILITE!" Yeah, "some day" the sun will burn out. Curling is televised. Not worried about Wrestling. Little worried about "Rassling'" as I think that may be a whole different thing, but...Wrestling is growing. Lets stop ringing the death knell as more and more interest is generated...or, maybe some like to be a little fatalistic...

It's the same weight at the Senior level. And of course they carry more weight. Gable Stevenson's biggest accomplishment(and Snyder's) were also at the Senior level. I'm not entirely sure of the point of this though. You're kinda saying 125 is easier because they're the little guys and most people grow out of it. Well...same's true(even more true) when you're talking about 57KG. Unless you meant Senior as in your Senior years results should carry more weight. In which case...maybe, but even then...much as I'd like to annoy a particular poster, what Lee did as a Sr doesn't diminish what he did as a Sr as there is context that needs to be added to virtually every sport and arbitrary ranking or comparison.

Of course ya do Jimmy.

Yeah, I hate this idea in Folkstyle. Blocking and pushing IS a form of stalling. You'd be taking away one of the things that makes College Wrestling SO exciting. There have been a LOT of scores this year when a guy takes a shot, he's trying to pull a guy back in and the guy out of bounds comes back and attacks. I think people are looking for too many ways to "fix" something that's not broken. Step out is a fine in MFS(don't even like it there). I think it has less utility in Folkstyle.

Yeah, I can see this. Wrestling can also be an exciting sport with no points being scored, so I like that he brings the enthusiasm and the passion, but it's a bit too much at times. MUCH better than the...I think Scottish crew that did the Olympics last year. As for the B1G crew, I like them(I like Rock as well overall)...my main problem is...is Shane paid by the number of times he says "resilite." "As they go off the resilite, as they step onto the resilite, big return to the resilite." I counted 12 in one match and then it was like hearing canned laugher on a TV show and that's all you can hear, so I REALLY tried to ignore it. Other than that, he's great. Anyone who is enthusiastic and loves the sport, I'm happy to listen to(mostly). If the worst is being a little too excited or an OBVIOUS endorsement deal, I'll get over it...

In all seriousness...I still won't at that point. Lee won 3 titles and then got beat his 5th year. Lee wasn't much different of a Wrestler as a Sr as he was as a Freshmen....because he started at such a high level and he was constantly hurt. I think the biggest jump he's made has been in the last ~18 months. I think Lillendahl will be a very different Wrestler in 3 years but that's not always how it works. Schlatter can tell you that. I don't have anything invested in the Lillendahl/Lee...debate other than the author of the thread and then the person who is more offended by it! '33 definitely cleared out. '65 is MUCH weaker this year. You lost O'Toole, Carr, Hamiti, Amine and I'm sure others.

Oh damn...I've never thought about that. I don't see much upside there for Snyder but that'd be fun. Stevenson moves like a much smaller HWT(obviously). And Snyder is a grind you down with hand fighting and then attack type of Wrestler. I'd go about 60/40 in favor of the big guy.

That's the one I was going to cite. Wasn't there a stud from Northern Iowa as well? An era of really athletic and big HWTs. Tommy Rowlands had some loaded weights also with guys like Garrett Lowney in there. It kinda feels like Stevenson's Olympic gold will skew people toward one of the years he was in it.

B1G as a Freshmen...nice start. Two losses. One a pretty fluke loss and the other a TD away. So...I guess NOW we have to start comparing him to Spencer Lee...otherwise it's Iowa hate...but if DON'T compare him to Spencer Lee, then it's a lack of respect to Spencer! Not even mentioning him! The disrespect! Somehow...Iowa is getting disrespected! I'm also curious after watching the 133 finals just how much talent left '25?

Yeah, but I was watching Rivera vs Ramos and Ramos looked several inches taller and he looked solid. I wonder how big of a cut that is for him. He doesn't look bad, but the size difference seems significant.

I thought a NC qualifies you...or a former age level world medal. So...that'll apply to likely Kasak, Mesenbrink, I'm gonna guess Duke, but that's premature(not sure exactly what the world medal meets the qualification for the ORS is exactly).

So...the BEST he could do as a Soph is...exactly what he did last year despite just beating two top 10 ranked kids who he'd lost to earlier in the season? It's also sooo clear how talented this kid is. How do you come to that conclusion? I'm genuinely curious?

I'm probably just swapping Taylor for Cael...I love him, but he didn't' win 20 more golds, he went into coaching. I think Gable could have been #1. He was so dominant. #5...I could see Gable given his dominance but I'm going to put Dake in there. It feels counterintuitive though. Taylor couldn't get past Dake much less JB...but he went up and won, so he gets the nod. Dave Schultz was great but...it's those '84 Olympic titles that I just don't see as being equal to most. He was great and won a WC... but Dake had a run of 6 years where he was three matches from 5 WC and 2 OCs. That didn't happen, but 4 WC, a couple Bronze Medal and a Silver in what is...probably the best weight(Generally speaking) speaks for itself and shows how great he was. Add that Olympic year that he had his best chance of winning and...things just didn't fall quite right for him, but he was right there. And hell, he's probably gonna try another Cycle and he's someone I could actually see winning it at 37 or whatever he'll be. I will say...I don't really like the idea of putting Cael or Gable ahead of Snyder as Snyder could have walked away with 3 WCs, an Olympic Title, a 2/1/1/1 in the NCAAs and a win over Sadulaev and people could argue he's #1 ever using the same logic that Cael would have kept winning or even Gable.

There were a LOT of kids who were having admissions revoked for stupid old social media posts. I don't want to get off topic here, but...that is SUPPOSED to be what College is for. To grow, think, become open minded. A violent conviction is something different.

I'm not even sure you were trying to be funny here...but it was!

I think we're being fair. The kid is REALLY good...he's got one loss and it's to a guy who doesn't need people making excuses for him.

LOL...probably accidentally accurate!

Quite a long and then VERY quick recovery all in one...

Vito was a World Champ and an NCAA Champ and he was...like 25 years old Wrestling a Freshmen. The insecurity here is...strange. He was hurt the first tournament of the year, he was hurt at the conference two weeks prior, but NOW he's healthy when he beat him here? This was more about what Crookham did than what Vito didn't...but making excuses for Vito is...beneath him(or should be).

And...neither was exactly a fluke. I don't remember exactly how each match went, but I thought he started the matches with TDs and then kinda put them away with TDs. 10-4 type matches. One I thought he was near a major and Vito scored late. My memory may be off(I'm sure it is) but not a...Zain beating Stieber type of match where it came down to RT or something. And that's Vito coming off one of the most impressive NCAA runs I've seen in a while just blowing Fix and RBY out of the Gym.

I stand corrected and I guess...correct! I just didn't realize he was Wrestling with the pushout and most of the videos I've seen(I'd just watched the Smith match, but there were a lot) guys were able to get to the leg, but not finish. So...I guess you need not speculate that he'd have solved that as well since he did.

Yeah, this one really hit me as I went back and watched some of his matches...and it seemed like guys got in on his legs fairly easily...relatively speaking. Compared to other GREAT MFS Wrestlers and they struggled to finish with that leg in the air, but I thought, 'well, now they'd just be able to walk him out,' and then I kinda caught myself like...'no, of course that's not how it'd go. He went out of bounds there because it wasn't a point. It probably just causes more cartwheels and even more insane scrambles, I think of the scramble Sadulaev had vs the Bulgarian...which was one of the most impressive scramble and defense to offensive exchanges I've ever seen, but Saitiev had so many.

I don't think people ignore Medved. He comes in #2 or #3 on all the all-time great lists I see. ...seriously? We're just talking about their physique....that's all. I was simply replying to Did this somehow get translated to 100 of 100 people think Dake and Burroughs(just two guys I picked, Joe Wiliams could easily have been one or...most Wrestlers at that level) were actually better?

Sure. This hardly feels like a point worth arguing. That physically he wasn't imposing but he was still one of, if not the greatest ever. Yes, as @MPhillipsquote from Fried points out, this was really all I was saying. He won a world title at 85 KGs weighing about 80s. That's weighing in over 10 pounds under...with guys cutting weight and still winning a world title. So...I feel like most people just looking at him would not have him pegged as the greatest ever.