Reasonable Discussion: Systemic Oppression

[jross]

33 minutes ago, Don't Feed 3PTD said:

I will venture a guess. People that are bullied by their community for superficial attributes take one of several paths forward. 

• They stop drawing attention to themselves in order to prevent further bullying and abandoning that particular form of self expression in order to maintain their place within the community that bullied them
• Continue to embrace this form of self expression and find a new community that accepts them and potentially embraces more extreme and vibrant means of self expression

Both scenarios display strength and cowardice in one form or another. 

• One prioritizes the beauty in our individuality and how empathy can build strong communities. Strength, leaving a group that is no longer safe. Cowardice, refusing to fight to change a harmful action from members of the group.
• One succumbs to the fear of losing the safety of community over individual expression. Strength, setting aside things that might put your safety in danger. Cowardice, allowing members of your group to treat fellow members in a harmful manner. 

Some find it easier and more rewarding to stick with the group. Some find it easier and more rewarding to seek out more accepting communities. 

 

Can we agree that each group has their own ways of growing their numbers. One group will develop more and more harmful ways of maintaining and growing their numbers and the other will seek to be more and more accepting in an attempt to do the same. 

Citations please. /s

Edited March 25 by jross

[ThreePointTakedown]

14 minutes ago, jross said:

Citations please. /s

Didn't claim it to be true. Just a guess. 

Near miss

[Bigbrog]

1 hour ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

Do you disagree?

Do I disagree that I find you to be completely hilarious...no I don't disagree with that.  Your "ability" to try and psycho-analyze people based off of a couple sentences and your PhD level of victimhood is nothing more than clownish level hilarious.

[ThreePointTakedown]

1 hour ago, Bigbrog said:

Do I disagree that I find you to be completely hilarious...no I don't disagree with that.  Your "ability" to try and psycho-analyze people based off of a couple sentences and your PhD level of victimhood is nothing more than clownish level hilarious.

Are you trying to defend someone for some reason? Or think I am attacking someone? You should really think about that. It might help you explain why you are so aggressive with your commentary. 

 

What do you think I was responding to? 

 

Don't worry I'll tell you. I put forth my opinion as to how I think vibrant personal expression is treated by conservatives vs non conservatives. So I'll repeat. Conservatives do not seem like or appreciate the personal expression of members of their group. They do not seem to have the emotional maturity to address it in a productive way. So bullying and ostracization are popular reactions to conservatives that swim against the stream. Why do they not like or appreciate expression outside the norm, as much as non-conservatives? I don't know. But it doesn't seem like they do. 

Do you disagree? And why?

[wrestlingguy]

6 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

 

Are you trying to defend someone for some reason? Or think I am attacking someone? You should really think about that. It might help you explain why you are so aggressive with your commentary. 

 

What do you think I was responding to? 

 

Don't worry I'll tell you. I put forth my opinion as to how I think vibrant personal expression is treated by conservatives vs non conservatives. So I'll repeat. Conservatives do not seem like or appreciate the personal expression of members of their group. They do not seem to have the emotional maturity to address it in a productive way. So bullying and ostracization are popular reactions to conservatives that swim against the stream. Why do they not like or appreciate expression outside the norm, as much as non-conservatives? I don't know. But it doesn't seem like they do. 

Do you disagree? And why?

Unnatural colored hair belongs a few places.

1. Halloween

2. Workers at Walmart or a tattoo parlor

[Bigbrog]

7 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

 

Are you trying to defend someone for some reason? Or think I am attacking someone? You should really think about that. It might help you explain why you are so aggressive with your commentary. 

 

What do you think I was responding to? 

 

Don't worry I'll tell you. I put forth my opinion as to how I think vibrant personal expression is treated by conservatives vs non conservatives. So I'll repeat. Conservatives do not seem like or appreciate the personal expression of members of their group. They do not seem to have the emotional maturity to address it in a productive way. So bullying and ostracization are popular reactions to conservatives that swim against the stream. Why do they not like or appreciate expression outside the norm, as much as non-conservatives? I don't know. But it doesn't seem like they do. 

Do you disagree? And why?

LOL...so you start off your response by doing exactly what I said you do...that is hilarious!!  What is most humorous is you don't see it yet think you are smart.

Anyway, as for your totally overgeneralization of a large group of people the actual accusation that conservatives don't like people or appreciate the personal expression of members of a group...or are "emotionally mature" to address it...is again hilarious...and quite frankly stupid.  No one on here has once said they don't like people that "express themselves"...I believe people have actually said multiple times that people can do whatever they want in their free time as adults.  Anyway, they also expressed that at no point is anyone obligated to either "celebrate" their expression nor enable or confirm their mental health issues.  And most people agree that you nor anyone else can make people, or guilt people into affirming things they don't affirm.  You, and others like you, take that as some sort of "slight" or phoebe, or bigotry, or whatever emotional nonsense label you use to perch up on your moral high ground.  If I think there are men and there are women...why is my opinion (based on fact) wrong and your opinion there are endless genders is right and because I have my opinion, without once saying anything negative about people that think there are endless genders, I am a bigot, or hateful, or again whatever stupid emotional label you throw around so freely??

And what is funny is you are using these totally overgeneralization stereotypes right after arguing about how awful stereotypes are...seriously?!?!  That is another reason why you are so hilarious to me!

[jross]

I don't care that Karen looks like Karen as much as when Karen acts like Karen and I learned to avoid folks that look like Karen so I am safe from who might act like Karen.  

I don't mind that she looks like a Karen. I mind when she acts like one. So now I just avoid anyone who looks like they might act like one.

[jross]

I am allowed to have preferences and boundaries for self-preservation.  I don't need Karen's hassle.  

The Uber ride feature for women to select women drivers isn't bigotry.  It is self-preservation.

You're not obligated to ignore patterns.

[Lipdrag]

On 3/23/2026 at 1:35 PM, jross said:

 

Stereotypes are statistically accurate at the group level.  They are evolutionarily necessary.  When you have the time to understand the individual, the stereotype should fade away.

This is so intuitively obvious to the most casual of honest observers that it need not even be said.  No one decides to make up a stereotype one day.  They are all the result of repeated observations forming a trend at the group level.  If the observed population is skewed in its characteristics or behaviors from the overall population then that is a statistical anomaly.  Nevertheless, the stereotype is accurate for the sub-group observed.  Any scientist - except the psuedo-scientists - will be able to declare authoritatively the truth of this stereotype about stereotypes.

It reminds me of the statement "All generalizations are wrong - including this one"

[mspart]

This is what it is all about. 

mspart

[ThreePointTakedown]

16 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

LOL...so you start off your response by doing exactly what I said you do...that is hilarious!!  What is most humorous is you don't see it yet think you are smart.

Anyway, as for your totally overgeneralization of a large group of people the actual accusation that conservatives don't like people or appreciate the personal expression of members of a group...or are "emotionally mature" to address it...is again hilarious...and quite frankly stupid.  No one on here has once said they don't like people that "express themselves"...I believe people have actually said multiple times that people can do whatever they want in their free time as adults.  Anyway, they also expressed that at no point is anyone obligated to either "celebrate" their expression nor enable or confirm their mental health issues.  And most people agree that you nor anyone else can make people, or guilt people into affirming things they don't affirm.  You, and others like you, take that as some sort of "slight" or phoebe, or bigotry, or whatever emotional nonsense label you use to perch up on your moral high ground.  If I think there are men and there are women...why is my opinion (based on fact) wrong and your opinion there are endless genders is right and because I have my opinion, without once saying anything negative about people that think there are endless genders, I am a bigot, or hateful, or again whatever stupid emotional label you throw around so freely??

And what is funny is you are using these totally overgeneralization stereotypes right after arguing about how awful stereotypes are...seriously?!?!  That is another reason why you are so hilarious to me!

Please do not lie and say that conservatives are fine with people doing whatever they want in their free time as adults. They have worked for decades to curtail many things that adults can do in their free time. Going to the bathroom in public is a big one in recent memory. 

No one said 'celebrate expression'. Just that one side tends to criticize self expression more than the other side. Now which group would be more likely to balk at self expression outside the norm, conservatives or non-conservatives? That's all I was saying. 

Again, no one mentioned mental health issues. But also, if you knew about someone's mental health issues you would not work to help them address or work with those issues? Would you just say, 'I don't believe you. I refuse to enable or confirm your mental health issues'? You sound like a great person/friend. Very open minded to the experience of others. 

Let me ask, what do you lose by acknowledging, confirming, or 'enabling' someone and their interpretation of their own place in this society? The response I see about this issue usually goes something like, 'I don't want to enable a lie.' My response would be, who are you to determine if its a lie? And yes, such a shortsighted view of the experience of another is bigoted, biased, and hints at irrational fear. 

What 'fact(s)' are you using to determine who is a man and who is a woman? 

Who said there are endless genders? 

If there were endless genders, how would that effect you and your life? Why would you care? 

'stupid emotional label' that is an emotional reaction, you know that right? You see what you did there. If you're arguing against me labeling a thing as I see it. Try not doing THAT very thing while you argue. 

And yes, I do believe you are at the very least biased to the subject and I'll bet you don't even know why. You as well as everyone that has argued on this site have not been able to cite evidence to support their disagreement with a whole host of issues. You rely on emotional appeal to paint your opinions as reasonable and common sense. When in reality they are anything but. Yet you can't see past your bias to see it. Tale as old as time. I have to think you are aware of similar situations from the past: gay rights, civil rights, slavery, 'No blacks or Irish', yahtzee treatment of wejs. We have always looked for a small group(that can't really defend themselves) to unify against as the 'cause' of the problems in the country/world. You have hopped on board with being anti-trans. You don't really know why but you feel comfortable knowing that 'they' really are the cause of all these problems. Despite making up about 3% of the population. They cannot, by law of large numbers, be the cause of all these problems; attacks, mass shootings, playing sports. They are such a small and battered group in our community. They just want to be at best accepted for who they are or at worst, just left alone. Do be free to do what they want in their free time as adults. 

The 'stereotype' conversation was started by saying that they can be relied upon as FACT. I asked to see the evidence and was told 'no'. So are they facts? Probably not. My guess is that anyone that says 'no' when asked to provide evidence of something is a 'fact' it means they don't even really believe it. But like a toddler, caught and desperately want to not be held accountable for their bad actions. I get it. There are really no repercussions for lying on this site. Especially to you and your group. You don't care, unless it attempts to disprove your opinions. THEN you need proof. 

To bring this back around to stereotypes. I made it clear that this was my opinion. In no way did I state anything as a fact. You may have misunderstood my guessing as fact. Perhaps because it hit a little too close to home. Again, that's my guess. If it wasn't true I doubt you would've had such an emotional response. 

[ThreePointTakedown]

17 hours ago, wrestlingguy said:

Unnatural colored hair belongs a few places.

1. Halloween

2. Workers at Walmart or a tattoo parlor

 

Based on that reaction would I be correct in guessing that you are conservative? 

 

Also, why would those be the only places? What about 'unnatural' hair color would limit it to just those two places? 

What is unnatural, your color only or all possible 'natural' hair colors? 

 

[ThreePointTakedown]

15 hours ago, jross said:

I am allowed to have preferences and boundaries for self-preservation.  I don't need Karen's hassle.  

The Uber ride feature for women to select women drivers isn't bigotry.  It is self-preservation.

 

You're not obligated to ignore patterns.

Ok. 

What is a 'boundary' in your opinion? 

[ThreePointTakedown]

14 hours ago, Lipdrag said:

This is so intuitively obvious to the most casual of honest observers that it need not even be said.  No one decides to make up a stereotype one day.  They are all the result of repeated observations forming a trend at the group level.  If the observed population is skewed in its characteristics or behaviors from the overall population then that is a statistical anomaly.  Nevertheless, the stereotype is accurate for the sub-group observed.  Any scientist - except the psuedo-scientists - will be able to declare authoritatively the truth of this stereotype about stereotypes.

It reminds me of the statement "All generalizations are wrong - including this one"

Intuitively obvious to the person that refuses to stop and say to themselves, 'Am I being an asshole for holding everyone in the group to a standard that I, myself, have only observed in a very few examples?' 

You want so desperately to be able to judge everyone in the group by your, obviously biased, standard. So that you can be correct and not be forced to do extra work and examine your process. That's what the real motivation is. You're in for a penny with the stereotype and rather than fold and agree that you COULD be wrong(and what mental and emotional trauma that might cause you) you go all in and hope no one calls you. 

From all that we know now about how the brain works and how we come to making decisions and stereotypes it should be really easy to ditch this excuse and that's what it is. You just want an excuse to keep thinking in the biased way you have been thinking. Because up until now its kept you alive and that's what is really important. But it isn't. You don't have to be an asshole to everyone anymore just to survive. 

 

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/equality/resources/unconscious-bias/

What is unconscious bias?

Unconscious (or implicit) bias is a term that describes the associations we hold, outside our conscious awareness and control. Unconscious bias affects everyone.

Unconscious bias is triggered by our brain automatically making quick judgments and assessments. They are influenced by our background, personal experiences, societal stereotypes and cultural context. It is not just about gender, ethnicity or other visible diversity characteristics - height, body weight, names, and many other things can also trigger unconscious bias. 

Unconscious bias can have a significant influence on our attitudes and behaviours, especially towards other people. It can influence key decisions in the workplace and can contribute to inequality, for example in selection and recruitment, appraisals, or promotion.

[jross]

41 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

What is a 'boundary' in your opinion? 

Self-protective autonomy as the example demonstrated.  A boundary is the line I draw around what I will (or won't) accept in interactions with others.

[jross]

The Uber example.  If a woman sets this boundary for safety (women driver option), it's empowerment. If a man does something similar, it's bigotry. Is that how you see it TPT?

[wrestlingguy]

47 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

 

Based on that reaction would I be correct in guessing that you are conservative? 

 

Also, why would those be the only places? What about 'unnatural' hair color would limit it to just those two places? 

What is unnatural, your color only or all possible 'natural' hair colors? 

 

Me being a conservative has nothing to do with my view on unnatural hair color (pink, purple, green, red, orange, blue, etc)

There are a few other places that grown adults are accepted with bright unnatural hair color. I mean prison is a likely place as well.

As someone who hires professionals for a living I would never be able to take someone with bright colored hair serious. Children do this for fun or for Halloween.

[Gene Mills Fan]

what he calls unconscious bias we call good detective work. Also he thinks fails to acknowledge the associations we hold over stereotypes are the result of actual life experience over 40-50 years. These associations are not taught they are learned through life's experiences. 

[jross]

Feelings don't override statistics.

Coming soon from your nearest victim hunter...

"Insurance companies are bigots that oppress young people.  Young people are already poor and these companies keep oppressing them with their high prices.  Stupid ageism.  Not all young drivers are reckless."

[Caveira]

7 minutes ago, jross said:

Feelings don't override statistics.

Coming soon from your nearest victim hunter...

"Insurance companies are bigots that oppress young people.  Young people are already poor and these companies keep oppressing them with their high prices.  Stupid ageism.  Not all young drivers are reckless."

Kids today seem so much weaker … mentally.  Physically.   Corporations shy away from hiring them because of their poor work ethic as well.  
 

 

[WrestlingRasta]

The only ones to blame for kids being softer these days is our generation of parents, "we" have made them softer by looking to protect them from being uncomfortable, from avoiding constructive criticism, from learning to realize that struggles, challenges, thing sometimes not going your way is simply part of life and you have to learn to navigate them and work through them.   It is us as parents who have caused this.  Today's parents would rather have their children avoid struggle than learn to work through it. 

[ThreePointTakedown]

18 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Kids today seem so much weaker … mentally.  Physically.   Corporations shy away from hiring them because of their poor work ethic as well.  
 

 

[ThreePointTakedown]

3 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

The only ones to blame for kids being softer these days is our generation of parents, "we" have made them softer by looking to protect them from being uncomfortable, from avoiding constructive criticism, from learning to realize that struggles, challenges, thing sometimes not going your way is simply part of life and you have to learn to navigate them and work through them.   It is us as parents who have caused this.  Today's parents would rather have their children avoid struggle than learn to work through it. 

We should get back to building with asbestos and painting with lead. Make the next generation, those that survive at least, stronger than today. 

[ThreePointTakedown]

2 hours ago, wrestlingguy said:

Me being a conservative has nothing to do with my view on unnatural hair color (pink, purple, green, red, orange, blue, etc)

There are a few other places that grown adults are accepted with bright unnatural hair color. I mean prison is a likely place as well.

As someone who hires professionals for a living I would never be able to take someone with bright colored hair serious. Children do this for fun or for Halloween.

Tell me you are conservative without telling me you are conservative. 

Yes and you're quite narrowminded. 

Tattoos? Do you feel the same way? Don't contradict yourself now. 

Zealous protection of the standards and norms of the group is a hallmark of a conservative. Refusing entry based on superficial features, again, hallmark. Using your authority to enforce a narrowly tailored opinion of what is right and wrong or in your words 'serious' or not is a form of bigotry or at least bias. Not to mention you may hold in your hand someone's financial future by either being hired or not. You seem like the perfect person to hold the position you do. I hope you can feel the sarcasm. 

You are an example of systematic oppression. You, like many others that have found themselves within a system of oppression, have rationalized it and absolved yourself of any responsibility. You don't see your actions as harmful despite confessing that you are purposefully bias to a specific group of people. 

Thank you for making this particular comment in this thread. There is no longer any reason to continue the discussion as this is overwhelming evidence that it does exist and that it is harmful. 

Do better. 

[WrestlingRasta]

19 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

We should get back to building with asbestos and painting with lead. Make the next generation, those that survive at least, stronger than today. 

No 3pt, that would be just silly.  Why would you want to put a child's life and health in literal danger?  I gotta say, I am disappointed in you.  I thought you were someone who was for "reasonable discussion"