WrestlingRash Posted January 4 Posted January 4 There are 77 D1 programs. There are 80 total AAs. Football has 136 teams and named 28 AAs. Basketball has 365 D1 programs and names 15 AAs. If you make it to NCAAs in wrestling, you have a 25% chance of being an AA. That seems too high to me. I think they should only place top 6 at the very most. Sure, wrestle it out for team points, but no medals and no AA honors for 7/8, possibly 5/6/7/8.
Antitroll2828 Posted January 4 Posted January 4 20 minutes ago, WrestlingRash said: There are 77 D1 programs. There are 80 total AAs. Football has 136 teams and named 28 AAs. Basketball has 365 D1 programs and names 15 AAs. If you make it to NCAAs in wrestling, you have a 25% chance of being an AA. That seems too high to me. I think they should only place top 6 at the very most. Sure, wrestle it out for team points, but no medals and no AA honors for 7/8, possibly 5/6/7/8. Wrestling is harder then football and comparing basketball to wrestling in anyway is an insult to everyone on this board also both those sports AAs are a popularity contest that’s voted on. In wrestling being an AA is earned idk if you re trolling but this might be the worse take ever made on this board
CHROMEBIRD Posted January 4 Posted January 4 Becoming an AA in wrestling is a really difficult accomplishment. I'm fine with the current system if it means more recognition for more or smaller programs and leverage for wrestlers to get some NIL dough. Reducing from 8 would also take away some of the dynamics at Nationals that we love, like the blood round.
cl415 Posted January 4 Posted January 4 I think top 5 would be the best. Anyone who loses 3 times is not an AA.
peanut Posted January 4 Posted January 4 Out of all high school sports, wrestling has one of the smallest percentages of athletes making it to the D1 level. There are simply a lot of high school wrestlers and small number of D1 spots. So eight AA spots works for me. Seems good. All those athletes came up out of a massive meat grinder (going back to high school). If anything, maybe there should be heightened recognition for the top three. On a related note, it’s crazy to see international athletes get like 5th in the world, and everybody treats it as some sort of failure.
GV4444 Posted January 4 Posted January 4 I agree with your logic and maybe it should be reduced to say the top 8, but it's not a big deal, not even a medium deal. Heck the 66th best basketball team or the 12th best football team shouldn't get to play for the national championship. It's more like grade inflation creating more magna cum laude graduates. Who cares. Dispassionate Penn State grad and fan.
SocraTease Posted January 4 Posted January 4 This argument relies on selective use of statistics (cherry picking), among other problems. Cross country awards the top 40 finishers at the championships AA status. In men's swimming, I believe the number was 243 in Men's DI last year across all events. In gymnastics, I think it is top 8 for men and women's. In tennis, I think it is 10. I believe it is top 8 in track and field. NCAA sports can't be directly compared with one another due to many factors: some are more team oriented (football, soccer, and basketball). Others are more individually-oriented even if there are team aspects (wrestling, cross country, gymnastics, tennis). Some focus more positions (baseball and basketball). Others just focus on individual finishes. And a third group on team finishes. Some are awarded First Team, Second Team, and Third Team honors. One also has to look at the raw numbers of individuals teams competing at each level. In my view, if you finish top 8 in wrestling at DI, you've earned the honor. Getting to the Big Dance is a competition, and then there is a competition then within it at the championships. It is not based on subjective criteria in the end. It's not a participation trophy (award).
William Lang Posted January 4 Posted January 4 This is the highest level of wrestling that 99.9% of wresters will ever be able to participate in full time. Let them have 8 all-americans.
Hammerlock3 Posted January 4 Posted January 4 40 minutes ago, cl415 said: I think top 5 would be the best. Anyone who loses 3 times is not an AA. "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity."
SocraTease Posted January 4 Posted January 4 4 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said: That is just being arbitrary. So, if you only lose to the #1, #2, and #3, you shouldn't get AA.? Why shouldn't it be just four then? Or top three like the Olympics (actually, they give medals to four given double bronzes)?
BAC Posted January 4 Posted January 4 I don't think it's any easier to make AA now than it was in prior years when there were more programs. Why? Because high school participation levels are at an all-time high. The talent pool that colleges draw from is higher than it ever has been. That means if you reduce the number of college programs, you're just squeezing all that talent into fewer schools, so there's a lot less "fluff" now than in decades past, and every starter is going to be extremely accomplished. An 8th place finisher today may have had fewer schools to compete against to get that placing, but the number of wrestlers they had to outperform to get opportunity is going to be significantly higher than it was in, say, the 1980s, when there were more colleges drawing from a smaller high school pool. You can change the number of AAs if you want, but don't use the smaller number of colleges as a reason, as that's just faulty logic.
BAC Posted January 4 Posted January 4 50 minutes ago, cl415 said: I think top 5 would be the best. Anyone who loses 3 times is not an AA. Well then why not top 5 plus 7th? After all, that guy only lost twice.
SocraTease Posted January 4 Posted January 4 They (the "thems") say second place is like kissing your sister. So perhaps, wrestling (a proto combat sport) should just rely on criteria in this sport (game)
Hammerlock3 Posted January 4 Posted January 4 33 minutes ago, SocraTease said: That is just being arbitrary. So, if you only lose to the #1, #2, and #3, you shouldn't get AA.? Why shouldn't it be just four then? Or top three like the Olympics (actually, they give medals to four given double bronzes)? Of course its arbitrary. You think the correct # of AAs is written down somewhere but we just lost track of it? "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity."
cl415 Posted January 4 Posted January 4 39 minutes ago, BAC said: Well then why not top 5 plus 7th? After all, that guy only lost twice. Well obviously the problem would be 6th couldn’t finish behind 7th.
BAC Posted January 4 Posted January 4 24 minutes ago, cl415 said: Well obviously the problem would be 6th couldn’t finish behind 7th. But... these go to 11.
BruceyB Posted January 4 Posted January 4 38 minutes ago, cl415 said: Well obviously the problem would be 6th couldn’t finish behind 7th.
pmilk Posted January 4 Posted January 4 Back in the day ('68-'84) there were lots of opportunities to wrestle collegiately, more intangibles, and rules that offered more pinning opportunities. That 16 yr time span averaged 63 falls/13 OT's per tourney vs 32 falls/26 OT's per tourney for the last 16 yrs on the championship side of the brack Freshman and multiple time NCAA Champions are not unique in a field of 78 or so. There were four freshman NCAA champs from '68-'84 (approx. 350 schools in the field- D1+D2+D3). The top 2+2 WC's in D2 and the D3 Champs came to the Big Show. There were 13 Frosh champs in the last 16 yrs (approx 77 schools in the field) and there were 21 total Frosh champs total since '85. In '78 they awarded 6 AA's (1.65%) from a total field of approx 363 schools. Now they award 8 AA's (10.39%) from total field of 77 schools. Consider this abbreviated list of D2/D3 wrestlers who stood at the top of the podium in D1: Rich Sanders (Portland State), Stan Dzeidzic (Slippery Rock), Wade Schalles (Clarion), Joe Gonzales (CSU-Bakersfield), Carlton Haselrig (Pitt-Johnstown- 3x NCAA D2/D1 Champ) and Ken Mallory (D3-Montclair St.) I would have to push back on the idea that winning a championship was easier back then as opposed to now. Here's a very small sampling of NCAA scores from that period. Cleo McGlory (U of Okla) 21-4 in '68, Steve Dildine (Alabama) 27-3 in '70, Don Rohn (Clarion)26-6 in '73, Gary Breece (U of Okla) 24-2 in '74, Nabil Guketlov (Montclair St) 26-9 in '75, Mark Churella (Mich) 34-4, in '77, Shawn Whitcomb (Mich St) 30-7 in '79, Charlie Heard (UT-Chatt) 32-12 in '83, Joe Gibbons (Iowa St) 32-0 and Melvin Douglas (U of Okla) 35-5 in '84. That's a lot of wrestling, fans loved it, and those guys refused to get pinned. My how things have changed.
WrestlingRash Posted January 4 Author Posted January 4 2 hours ago, cl415 said: I think top 5 would be the best. Anyone who loses 3 times is not an AA. that makes sense to me.
WrestlingRash Posted January 4 Author Posted January 4 2 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said: Wrestling is harder then football and comparing basketball to wrestling in anyway is an insult to everyone on this board also both those sports AAs are a popularity contest that’s voted on. In wrestling being an AA is earned idk if you re trolling but this might be the worse take ever made on this board I know we like to say wrestling is harder than football. Sure, you have to be in better shape, but how do you measure which is harder? There are way more injuries in football. Wouldn't that mean that it is harder?
WrestlingRash Posted January 4 Author Posted January 4 Maybe 6,7, and 8 should be honorable mention. Have to wrestle the tournament out for points, but top 5 feels right for actual AA. 8th placers have always been disrespected anyway.
ionel Posted January 4 Posted January 4 7 minutes ago, WrestlingRash said: I know we like to say wrestling is harder than football. Sure, you have to be in better shape, but how do you measure which is harder? Ask someone who played D1 football and also wrestled D1. .
Sy Strobel West-Oak, South Carolina Class of 2027 Committed to Appalachian State Projected Weight: 184
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