Tom Brands hasn’t seen anyone better than Lee

[Gus]

21 minutes ago, Formally140 said:

When I wrestled on a torn ACL, my cardio did much much better with guys I was simply much better than.. not so much with people as good or better than me. 

 

His body language and jumping out to a lead and just holding on if he can’t close right away. Iowa fans tend to justify it in their athletes and decry other they think are doing it.. vehemently 

Except no one else routinely puts up 10-15 points in the first 3 minutes of a match other than Spencer. 

[Formally140]

Just now, Gus said:

Except no one else routinely puts up 10-15 points in the first 3 minutes of a match other than Spencer. 

And that changes my point how? Replace 10 points with a pin and there’s many athletes he looks similar to. 
 

 

[Jamie_Taco]

19 minutes ago, Formally140 said:

When I wrestled on a torn ACL, my cardio did much much better with guys I was simply much better than.. not so much with people as good or better than me. 

 

His body language and jumping out to a lead and just holding on if he can’t close right away. Iowa fans tend to justify it in their athletes and decry other they think are doing it.. vehemently 

Isn't this the case with everyone, torn ACL or not? My cardio was much better vs bad competition too and I never tore my ACL.

Also, I can't think of one comparable example of a college wrestler consistently getting up by 10+ points in the first period like Spencer, so I am not really following your second point either.

[Gus]

4 minutes ago, Formally140 said:

And that changes my point how? Replace 10 points with a pin and there’s many athletes he looks similar to. 
 

 

Quote

His body language and jumping out to a lead and just holding on if he can’t close right away. Iowa fans tend to justify it in their athletes and decry other they think are doing it.. vehemently

There are not other wrestlers putting up the kinds of points that Spencer does and therefore there is no one for "Iowa fans" to really compare him to. Iowa fans, or any fans of wrestling for that matter, would swoon over any wrestler that puts up points the way he does, even if the tank is emptying in the process.

[Formally140]

5 minutes ago, Jamie_Taco said:

Isn't this the case with everyone, torn ACL or not? My cardio was much better vs bad competition too and I never tore my ACL.

Also, I can't think of one comparable example of a college wrestler consistently getting up by 10+ points in the first period like Spencer, so I am not really following your second point either.

It’s exacerbated with the injury. Especially ACL
 

and if you and @Gusthink my view of his wrestling is whack. So be it. I don’t have the personal experience or dog in the fight that LJB has. 
 

If he wins world titles, I’ll be like “go USA!! Yayy”. But until I see how he handles not having some “reason” that “explains” all his losses and bad matches. And until he consistently doesn’t look like he’s so tired that he just doesn’t want to wrestle after 3 minutes. my opinion won’t change.

I have no dog in the fight 

[Jamie_Taco]

1 minute ago, Formally140 said:

It’s exacerbated with the injury. Especially ACL
 

and if you and @Gusthink my view of his wrestling is whack. So be it. I don’t have the personal experience or dog in the fight that LJB has. 
 

If he wins world titles, I’ll be like “go USA!! Yayy”. But until I see how he handles not having some “reason” that “explains” all his losses and bad matches. And until he consistently doesn’t look like he’s so tired that he just doesn’t want to wrestle after 3 minutes. my opinion won’t change.

I have no dog in the fight 

Can you link an interview where Spencer had an excuse for any of his five losses? His illness from 2019 still hasn't been disclosed publicly, so once again, I am not following here.

[bnwtwg]

Spencer Lee could hand Gilman an absolute shit-pumping to get the world team spot immediately after becoming a 4x NCAA champ and people would still be complaining about his lack of cardio. It would be even worse if he pins him in the first period because then it would just prove their point that he can't go deep into matches and he just bullies people around. This is such a worthless exercise. Just appreciate the greatness while we have it because it will be gone quicker than an ACL in the NCAA finals.

[LJB]

there just seems to be a little too much hero worship going on here...

it is one of those things that just do not make much sense to me, but, whatever...

but this is why we have sport, yes?

a small respite from the average person's little mundane lives...

i wish spencer and all of you nothing but the best...

[Jamie_Taco]

2 minutes ago, LJB said:

there just seems to be a little too much hero worship going on here...

it is one of those things that just do not make much sense to me, but, whatever...

but this is why we have sport, yes?

a small respite from the average person's little mundane lives...

i wish spencer and all of you nothing but the best...

Everyone is disagreeing with my unpopular opinion. I better just chalk it up to hero worship.

Arrogance and stupidity, a deadly combo lol.

[ionel]

21 minutes ago, LJB said:

there just seems to be a little too much hero worship going on here...

it is one of those things that just do not make much sense to me, but, whatever...

but this is why we have sport, yes?

a small respite from the average person's little mundane lives...

i wish spencer and all of you nothing but the best...

a little less hero worship and ...

a little more punctuation ...

would be good ...

[Formally140]

28 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Spencer Lee could hand Gilman an absolute shit-pumping to get the world team spot immediately after becoming a 4x NCAA champ and people would still be complaining about his lack of cardio. It would be even worse if he pins him in the first period because then it would just prove their point that he can't go deep into matches and he just bullies people around. This is such a worthless exercise. Just appreciate the greatness while we have it because it will be gone quicker than an ACL in the NCAA finals.

I’m going off what I see. I’m not a hater. 

[PortaJohn]

33 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Spencer Lee could hand Gilman an absolute shit-pumping to get the world team spot immediately after becoming a 4x NCAA champ and people would still be complaining about his lack of cardio. It would be even worse if he pins him in the first period because then it would just prove their point that he can't go deep into matches and he just bullies people around. This is such a worthless exercise. Just appreciate the greatness while we have it because it will be gone quicker than an ACL in the NCAA finals.

Spencer Lee has a legitimate gas tank issue.  No one is infallible.  Pointing out a weakness of his doesn't make someone a hater.  It's a valid observation. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by PortaJohn

[ionel]

6 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

Spencer Lee has a legitimate gas tank issue.  No one is infallible.  Pointing out a weakness of his doesn't make someone a hater.  It's a valid observation. 

He knows his limits and is totally unwilling to go 7 minutes.  

[LJB]

haters...

the whole lot of you...

soooooo much hate...

nothing but hate...

all the hate...

hate...

HATE...

HATE...

HATE!!!!!!!

HAAAAAAAATE!!!!!!!!!

 

[PortaJohn]

3 minutes ago, ionel said:

He knows his limits and is totally unwilling to go 7 minutes.  

I blame his opponents for rolling over in the 1st period and allowing Spencer to get his "sympathy" pin.  

[jross]

Spencer is a brute with brute genetics.  His 145lb father could bench over 300 lbs.  Spencer can do a proper chin-up with 140 lbs chained to his hips.  He looks like a brute and executes the same moves in every match.  I love watching him.

There is a boy at my local high school that doesn't know how to wrestle.  He probably squats 500 lbs and benches 300 lbs while weighing 175 lbs.  I watched multiple duals with my daughter and said man that boy is so strong, he could be really good if he knew how to wrestle.  He doesn't know what a hip heist is.  He tries to do cross-face cradles from behind the hips.  It turns out the boy is ranked at state.  My daughter has strength and flexibility from 20+ hours of weekly gymnastic practice for years.  She has never lifted a weight but squats over 200 lbs at 140ish lbs.  She wrestles like a backward hammer.  She turns the wrong way into half-nelsons, and the opponents still cannot turn her.  I've never seen anything like it.

It is good to have @LJB on the forum.  He delivers facts with a knife.

[VakAttack]

15 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

Spencer Lee has a legitimate gas tank issue.  No one is infallible.  Pointing out a weakness of his doesn't make someone a hater.  It's a valid observation. 

That depends on what you're talking about when you say issue.  I think anybody would agree that he doesn't have the same pop in the 3rd as he does in the first.  However, he's never really "gassed out" where he's giving up multiple TDs, as we've seen gassed/broken wrestlers do.  He's just tired, probably from the amount of energy he expends in the first.  The most tired he looks is typically in the beginning of his last two full seasons (the Iowa State dual this year, and...I want to say it was a dual against UTC two seasons ago).

 

58 minutes ago, Formally140 said:

It’s exacerbated with the injury. Especially ACL
 

and if you and @Gusthink my view of his wrestling is whack. So be it. I don’t have the personal experience or dog in the fight that LJB has. 
 

If he wins world titles, I’ll be like “go USA!! Yayy”. But until I see how he handles not having some “reason” that “explains” all his losses and bad matches. And until he consistently doesn’t look like he’s so tired that he just doesn’t want to wrestle after 3 minutes. my opinion won’t change.

I have no dog in the fight 

He literally just pinned a top 6 wrestler late in the second period.  Like in his last match.

[LJB]

3 minutes ago, jross said:

Spencer is a brute with brute genetics.  His 145lb father could bench over 300 lbs.  Spencer can do a proper chin-up with 140 lbs chained to his hips.  He looks like a brute and executes the same moves in every match.  I love watching him.

There is a boy at my local high school that doesn't know how to wrestle.  He probably squats 500 lbs and benches 300 lbs while weighing 175 lbs.  I watched multiple duals with my daughter and said man that boy is so strong, he could be really good if he knew how to wrestle.  He doesn't know what a hip heist is.  He tries to do cross-face cradles from behind the hips.  It turns out the boy is ranked at state.  My daughter has strength and flexibility from 20+ hours of weekly gymnastic practice for years.  She has never lifted a weight but squats over 200 lbs at 140ish lbs.  She wrestles like a backward hammer.  She turns the wrong way into half-nelsons, and the opponents still cannot turn her.  I've never seen anything like it.

It is good to have @LJB on the forum.  He delivers facts with a knife.

my grandpappy used to say strength IS a skill...

i don't take that skill away from anyone...

 

[jross]

 

[Jamie_Taco]

21 minutes ago, jross said:

Spencer is a brute with brute genetics.  His 145lb father could bench over 300 lbs.  Spencer can do a proper chin-up with 140 lbs chained to his hips.  He looks like a brute and executes the same moves in every match.  I love watching him.

There is a boy at my local high school that doesn't know how to wrestle.  He probably squats 500 lbs and benches 300 lbs while weighing 175 lbs.  I watched multiple duals with my daughter and said man that boy is so strong, he could be really good if he knew how to wrestle.  He doesn't know what a hip heist is.  He tries to do cross-face cradles from behind the hips.  It turns out the boy is ranked at state.  My daughter has strength and flexibility from 20+ hours of weekly gymnastic practice for years.  She has never lifted a weight but squats over 200 lbs at 140ish lbs.  She wrestles like a backward hammer.  She turns the wrong way into half-nelsons, and the opponents still cannot turn her.  I've never seen anything like it.

It is good to have @LJB on the forum.  He delivers facts with a knife.

I am not sure you understand what this word means. Saying things like Spencer is "not even a little" technical or "Lee has never separated himself as a wrestler but he can definitely beat up some runts and mids in the c league" aren't facts. They are opinions that clearly stem from sour grapes.

Also, I'm still laughing at the fact that LJB brought up a story on a message board about Spencer mean mugging his son 10 years ago, but then claims he didn't care about it. Lol sure, dude.

 

[LJB]

3 minutes ago, jross said:

 

i am not saying i feel less masculine after watching that clip...

but...

i feel less masculine after watching that clip...

[jross]

How long did you interact with LBJ on the old forum?  LBJ exaggerates to make a point, and his opinions are based on an element of truth.  A full-grown Lee did beat up on still-maturing boys passing through the weight.  He did cut weight to make the world team because of Fix.  Lee is a Brute.  

My partial definition of technical includes performing multiple moves and performing them with controlled precision.  I don't have enough information about how technical Lee is in part because his relative strength is so high, and his matches are so short.  Tilt much?

I believe his best days are behind him, he still is the best 57kg wrestler in the USA, and he has the potential to be a senior world champion.  It is a reasonable opinion to believe he will not even make the USA world team.  

[Jamie_Taco]

3 minutes ago, jross said:

How long did you interact with LBJ on the old forum?  LBJ exaggerates to make a point, and his opinions are based on an element of truth.  A full-grown Lee did beat up on still-maturing boys passing through the weight.  He did cut weight to make the world team because of Fix.  Lee is a Brute.  

My partial definition of technical includes performing multiple moves and performing them with controlled precision.  I don't have enough information about how technical Lee is in part because his relative strength is so high, and his matches are so short.  Tilt much?

I believe his best days are behind him, he still is the best 57kg wrestler in the USA, and he has the potential to be a senior world champion.  It is a reasonable opinion to believe he will not even make the USA world team.  

Sooooo, in other words, not facts.

Also, what makes you think a 24 year old athlete's best days are behind him?

[jross]

1 minute ago, Jamie_Taco said:

Sooooo, in other words, not facts.

Also, what makes you think a 24 year old athlete's best days are behind him?

[VakAttack]

8 minutes ago, jross said:

How long did you interact with LBJ on the old forum?  LBJ exaggerates to make a point, and his opinions are based on an element of truth.  A full-grown Lee did beat up on still-maturing boys passing through the weight.  He did cut weight to make the world team because of Fix.  Lee is a Brute.  

My partial definition of technical includes performing multiple moves and performing them with controlled precision.  I don't have enough information about how technical Lee is in part because his relative strength is so high, and his matches are so short.  Tilt much?

I believe his best days are behind him, he still is the best 57kg wrestler in the USA, and he has the potential to be a senior world champion.  It is a reasonable opinion to believe he will not even make the USA world team.  

I would agree that he doesn't have a whole lot of different techniques from top position, but the ones he does have are very technically sound in how he performs them.  In neutral, he is very varied, capable in finishing multiple ways, and (in an unusual turn from an Iowa wrestler) is very proficient in scrambling situations.