National Duals Invitational Seeding

[scourge165]

7 hours ago, Caveira said:

If you don’t like accurate predictions of the future … you on the wrong internet bud.  

Ya think it was your predictions I was taking issue with there bud? LOL...

[scourge165]

6 hours ago, BruceyB said:

I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that he doesn't want to participate in the event as it is hosted by Oklahoma State and HC David Taylor. Their participation would show them willingly cooperating and supporting the event hosted by turncoat David Taylor.

If this was going to be hosted by PSU, I think Cael would host it, win, and cash the check for $200k. It's stubbornness of wanting to discredit the event his former pupil is hosting by not participating.

There is a reason that they are the only school in D1 wrestling that opted out. People can say it's because Cael only does what helps win in March, but I believe there is more to it than that.

I sincerely doubt that's the reason. He didn't want to participate the first time around...why would that change now that it's earlier in the season?

Also, most coaches are happy for former Wrestlers getting good jobs. They take pride in that. Barring some agreement that Cael was going to step down...AND Cunningham...say Cunningham's kids were done with College and then said they'd turn it over to Taylor, I don't see any reason he'd have to be upset. 

 

I don't think it's as deep as people are making it... he just doesn't want to go to an event like that as it doesn't line up with his schedule and peaking in March...which I think it lame, but I don't have reason to think he's lying. He didn't like it...what, 15 years ago or whenever it was and he doesn't like it now. 

Still think they should go, not debating that. 

It...is silly to have it without them, but... whatever. The one thing, you said go and collect the 200K. I thought it was 1M to the winner. Is it 1M in the total purse?

[BruceyB]

2 hours ago, scourge165 said:

I sincerely doubt that's the reason. He didn't want to participate the first time around...why would that change now that it's earlier in the season?

Also, most coaches are happy for former Wrestlers getting good jobs. They take pride in that. Barring some agreement that Cael was going to step down...AND Cunningham...say Cunningham's kids were done with College and then said they'd turn it over to Taylor, I don't see any reason he'd have to be upset. 

 

I don't think it's as deep as people are making it... he just doesn't want to go to an event like that as it doesn't line up with his schedule and peaking in March...which I think it lame, but I don't have reason to think he's lying. He didn't like it...what, 15 years ago or whenever it was and he doesn't like it now. 

Still think they should go, not debating that. 

It...is silly to have it without them, but... whatever. The one thing, you said go and collect the 200K. I thought it was 1M to the winner. Is it 1M in the total purse?

It's "over 1M in total purse." but I have to disagree. Cael hasn't publicly (to my knowledge) expressed any excitement or support for David Taylor moving on and taking over a rival program. You'd think it would be easy to say "I'm proud of David and excited that one of my first recruits at PSU is going to another program.. it will be a fun rivalry.. etc. etc." But it's seemed like the opposite. He dodges questions about DT and OSU, and just says he's worried about his team. It just furthers the cult mentality that people project upon PSU. David goes to OSU after 15 years in Happy Valley and multiple former/current PSU wrestlers essentially expressed anti-David sentiment. Wrestling in an event in November in no way would effect PSU's ability to peak for March.. the events are 4 months apart. He may believe it's best to avoid hard competition early in the season, but it likely has more to do with seeding than the ability to peak for March.

[Rams93]

First time poster, long time reader on lots of these wrestling forums, and those going back +15 years

always seemed to me that Cael’s lack of interest in national duals came from minny beating them early on in his tenure during the old national duals.  That year they ended up winning the national tournament.

Seemed he wanted more control over winning events and didn’t want to dilute his victory with an upstart dual tournament.  The new regional format of the duals was great and exciting.  Cornell similarly didn’t want it, which was actually to their detriment as koll had great dual teams during the early mid 2010s.  Don’t understand Koll’s motivation but the 2 of them killed it together.

now that Cael is so well established it seems weird and illogical to not embrace a national duals.  It’s way more interesting for the casual fan.  No back story is needed, just one team v the other.  Way better to grow viewership.

For the preservation of the sport the national crown should be given as a dual format and individual crowns at the ncaa tournament.  It’s the format we all grew up with in high school - same in every state.

why this format changes in college wrestling makes no sense.  The high school format solves the problem of a team spending large amounts of nil on 2-3 great wrestlers.  Teams will need to be more balanced.  The team part of the sport will be preserved.

Using the ncaa tournament to crown team champs should have stopped years ago.  It has served to maintain lauds for the handful of really powerful programs who consistently place multiple AAs.  Now, when wrestling is competing among other sports for interest and relevance, for funding and self preservation, this needs to change.  We need more viewers at events and greater interest which can come from a dual team national championship.

kudos to ok st.  However, I do disagree with using the ncaa tournament standings to decide who makes it, as outside of the top 6-8 teams that’s decided by one AA wrestler and where they place.

Would be more appropriate to use the number of wrestlers each team qualified than the performance of one wrestler.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, BruceyB said:

It's "over 1M in total purse." but I have to disagree. Cael hasn't publicly (to my knowledge) expressed any excitement or support for David Taylor moving on and taking over a rival program. You'd think it would be easy to say "I'm proud of David and excited that one of my first recruits at PSU is going to another program.. it will be a fun rivalry.. etc. etc." But it's seemed like the opposite. He dodges questions about DT and OSU, and just says he's worried about his team. It just furthers the cult mentality that people project upon PSU. David goes to OSU after 15 years in Happy Valley and multiple former/current PSU wrestlers essentially expressed anti-David sentiment. Wrestling in an event in November in no way would effect PSU's ability to peak for March.. the events are 4 months apart. He may believe it's best to avoid hard competition early in the season, but it likely has more to do with seeding than the ability to peak for March.

Ok... well, I don't agree with either. With your take or Penn States. But you have to account for why they chose to not participate 10 years ago as well. 

If it's about bad feelings about David Taylor taking over at Okie St...and I don't know who you're referring to other than maybe Starocci running his mouth(which is hardly new or...indicative of anything) or Nickal maybe. They're the only two guys I could imagine complaining. 

I'd also disagree about PSU protecting seeds or that Wrestling in November has nothing to do with Wrestling in March. I know coaches who have their schedule's and workouts planned week by week throughout the year. 

What I COULD see and what I think PSU...maybe as much as anyone(but Iowa and...well, most programs have done this) is that PSU in particular wants to minimize their competition, their events through the B1G duel season and they use the first half of the year to just figure out their lineup. 

 

But more than anything...they don't seem to care about National Duels anymore now than they did 10 years ago when they were the best team and also...not participating. You think it's a "cult mentality" that people project onto Penn State, but I think you are kinda projecting this onto Penn State. 

 

I think Cael just doesn't think it's worth it for the reasons he's given and that's it. He doen't feel like he has to answer to anyone becaue...well, he really doesn't. He doesn't need to justify his coaching philosophy because it's self explanatory.

So...again, we BOTH believe they should be there, you're just reading much more into why they're not than I am. 

What's your thinking about why Cael declined to go the first opportunity he got at Penn State?

 

I would like to hear him explain when he thinks they should be and how they should be run...as he's articulated whyhe doesn't like them(though vaguely). 

Quote

In 2011, Cael Sanderson, head coach of Penn State wrestling, expressed reservations about participating in the NWCA National Duals. While he acknowledged the importance of supporting the NWCA and the potential benefits of the event, he cited differing philosophies on how best to grow the sport and concerns about the timing and structure of the duals. Sanderson emphasized that his decision was not a rejection of the NWCA but rather a strategic choice based on his vision for the sport's development. He indicated openness to future participation if the event aligned more closely with his team's goals and the broader interests of collegiate wrestling.

I would imagine this would require the NCAA to recognize it as a team duel championship...perhaps after the NCAAs as many State do with duel championships. 

 

I'd really doubt it is more about his first prized recruit and the guy David Taylor called a mentor...spiting the event because his new program was putting it on. That just doesn't feel likely. Maybe we'll have to agree to disagree here...(though I'd be interested in who has taken shots at David Taylor...I don't really stay up to date on the social media snipping).