Trump's Concentration Camp

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

15 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

To my knowledge, him being a “bad dude” is based on the claim by a criminal informant that was also arrested at the same time as this guy while standing outside of a Home Depot and one report filed by a cop who has since been suspended.

Right.  That is why I support due process.

[BigRedFan]

1 hour ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I'm not talking about this particular situation where I have very mixed feelings.  I'm a believer in due process.  If what I have heard/read is true, he is a bad dude, and our country is better off with him being elsewhere.  However, I would have preferred if everything had gone through the proper channels.

Did you read the lawfare article I linked?  He's in no way a "bad dude."  Not even close.  He's married, has a US citizen son, is working and paying taxes, has never been arrested (other than due to his immigration status).  Due process?  He was given *no* due process, other than the due process that concluded with the "no deportation" order from the court (which I also linked above).

[Bigbrog]

6 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

I kept thinking the same thing. He's parroting Stephen Mueller is. I think we keep believing this despite all evidence to the contrary. 

Which one of these guys did they argue to the Court was MS-13 because of the Tatoo of a Soccer team that just had a crown over a soccer ball. That was the sum total of their evidence.  

 

I don't know, I'm just finding it amusing that the same guy will defend Trump's attempt to circumvent the constitution by going around the electoral College because he "understands" his feelings, but now we're determining if a guy is a gang member and 2 courts didn't determine that, an appellate court didn't overrule that and it's effectively akin to a PC preliminary hearing. The State says they are, they are. 

 

But now Trump is thumbing his nose at SCOTUS. 

Ignoring the crazy stuff in most of your post...care to explain the bolded statement??

The SCOTUS did not tell the Trump administration he needs to bring the guy back...they actually ruled that the district judge can't make the administration return him.  The SCOTUS wrote that the US should try and facilitate his RELEASE...not his return.

So again, how is Trump "thumbing his nose at SCOTUS???

[BigRedFan]

1 hour ago, jross said:

They frame the case as lawful and valid.  We do not have the court documents in public, or any other evidence than hearsay, that he was confirmed part of the MS 13 gang.

• Bondi
  • He was illegally in our country before being detained in 2019.
  • Two courts found he was part of the MS 13 gang and he was illegally in our country.
  • The supreme court rules that if El Salvador wants to return him, the USA would facilitate it.
• Miller
  • Illegal alien in the U.S., from El Salvador
  • He is a citizen of El Salvador
  • It is arrogant to tell El Salvador how to handle their own citizen
  • Two courts identify Abrego as a member of the gang MS 13
  • When Trump declared a member of the MS 13 gang to be a foreign terrorist organization, Abrego was no longer eligible under federal law for any immigration relief in the United States.
  • He had a deportation order and had to be returned
  • The supreme court clearly stated the the USA could not compel El Salvador to return him. (9-0 in our favor against the district court ruling that the USA could not be compelled to go get Abrego back on their own accords)
  • If Abrego was your neighbor, you would move right away.
• President from El Salvador
  • How can I return a terrorist to the USA?  I'm not smuggling him.  I don't have the power to return him to the U.S.

 

I posted the final court document that *ordered* he not be deported.  So Miller is either ignorant, misinformed, or lying about the deportation order.  Or some combination of all three.  He's pretty much lying or twisting the facts in everything else he says.

You have to understand that everything they are saying is post facto attempting to justify what they've already admitted to being a mistake.

[scourge165]

48 minutes ago, WrestlingRash said:

I've had athletes move here from other countries who did exactly this. You are young, its obvious. You are pretty aggressively ignorant, but thats your choice. Enjoy it!

Ok...I don't know what athletes you've had that have committed fraud or illlegally immigrated, but you should probably educate yourself on the standards.

You CANNOT buy your citizenship. Think for a second and see if you can wrap your head round why so incredibly stupid that is.

I'll try and once again explain this to you and perhaps you can take a second and read it more closely without getting emotional. 

EB-5 Immigrant Investor Visa-

You CAN get a visa with the potential to to get citizenship that would take, at best, 5 years, IF you invest in a BUSINESS in this Country and you support at LEAST 10 FULL-TIME-EMPLOYEES. 

 

That, to you, is the same as paying 5M for citizenship.

Things that are explicitly illegal;

• Buying a gas station(your example) and doing nothing with it, not employing enough people...

• Passive investment (just earning money with no business involvement).

• Trying to “buy” citizenship.

That last one is REAL confusing to you apparently. It shouldn't be...

Hey, maybe if you buy enough Trump Steak and go to Trump University you can also get in!

 

Agan, the hell with "Bring us your rested, wealthy 1%, yearning for tax havens!"

[ionel]

1 hour ago, uncle bernard said:

You guys are arguing that a father should be left to rot in one of the worst prisons in the world because we made a mistake, but "it's not our problem" anymore.

 

What does him being a father have to do with this issue?  

[BigRedFan]

47 minutes ago, jross said:

Do any of us have the court cases from 2019 or is everything second-hand discussion?

Evidence Suggesting Gang Membership:

• Abrego was already married with children before he was detained in 2018 at a Home Depot.

I stopped reading here.  Garcia was married while in jail.

Quote

Having been refused bail by Kessler, Abrego Garcia remained incarcerated at the Howard Detention Center in Jessup, Maryland. In June 2019, Jennifer and he got married, separated by a pane of glass. They passed rings to each other through an officer, according to Jennifer’s declaration.

https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/abrego-garcia-and-ms-13--what-do-we-know#postContributors

[jross]

4 minutes ago, BigRedFan said:

You have to understand that everything they are saying is post facto attempting to justify what they've already admitted to being a mistake.

This is exactly what it looks like when listening.  It's just so obstinate and disappointing.  An opportunity to show part of why this admin came to power... to bring accountability and transparency.

I support the aggressive deportation of aliens with criminal associations.  Mistakes will be made.  Admit it.  Address it.

The 9-0 supreme court claim is total spin through omission of what was heavily critical of the USA actions.

The spin isn't 'as bad' if this guy really is gang associated.  Like some poopouri was sprayed after, you know?

I'm going to hold out partial judgement for possible clarity to gang evidence.

[jross]

Just now, BigRedFan said:

I stopped reading here.  Garcia was married while in jail.

https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/abrego-garcia-and-ms-13--what-do-we-know#postContributors

I read both he was married before jail, and while in jail.

[jross]

4 minutes ago, jross said:

I read both he was married before jail, and while in jail.

edit... freaking AI gives two answers that I didn't validate.

My bad for not validating.

Quote

 

Was Abrego married before being detained?

Yes, Kilmar Abrego Garcia was married before his detention on March 12, 2025. He married Jennifer Vasquez Sura in June 2019, while he was in immigration detention, according to court documents and statements from his wife. They were raising three children together, including a five-year-old son with special needs, at the time of his detention.

 

And again

 

Quote

 

When Did Abrego Get Married?
Kilmar married Jennifer Vasquez Sura, a U.S. citizen, before his 2018 detention, though the exact date isn’t explicitly stated in the sources. We can infer the timeline from contextual clues:

• Abrego arrived in the U.S. illegally in 2011 at age 16 and lived in Maryland for about 14 years until his deportation in March 2025 [Web ID: 1].
• By the time of his 2019 immigration hearing, he was already married to Jennifer, as court records note he was raising three children with disabilities with her [Web ID: 1; Web ID: 5].
• Jennifer’s affidavit in March 2025 mentions their marriage and family life, indicating they were married well before his 2018 detention, as they had established a family by then [Web ID: 0]. Given that Abrego was 16 in 2011, he would have been 23 in 2018. It’s likely he married Jennifer between 2014 and 2017, allowing time for them to have children by 2018. Without a specific date, this is the most reasonable estimate based on the timeline.

 

Edited Tuesday at 05:58 PM by jross

[uncle bernard]

15 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

More proof you are unhinged...you put me in the group defending this person being kept in El Salvador...please point out one post I have made about said subject that says that.  So in your blind unhingness you have no idea what my stance is.  I am commenting on your repeated crazy claims of fascist, Nazi's, racists, ethnonationalism, etc.  You are throwing around those disgusting words just because someone disagrees with you...and those disagreement doesn't equal any those things you claim.

My stance on this situation...I sort of see it both ways...I think the truth is somewhere in the middle of all of it.  There is obviously a reason he was deported based on the information that ICE had (other than you and other's claims of racism, fascism, dictatorship, etc.), he probably was trying to turn his life around, this may have been a case that needed to be looked at more closely before he was deported, and there is probably a reason El Salvador is keeping him locked up. 

Do people in El Salvador get due process when they are in jail/prison??  Can they keep people in there for no reason? 

And seriously dude...take a break...you are just spewing emotional nonsense and calling people horrible things just because they have a different opinion.

Yes, that is exactly what this "mega-prison" is for. That's why I called it a concentration camp. Prisoners are being held, without any personal rights or protections, for political reasons, not being charged or tried for crimes, and not given a release date.

He has was never convicted of a crime. He was not proven to be part of a gang. He has no arrests since mistakenly being arrested the first time. He was here legally with the proper work permits, paying his taxes, and raising his family.

And then he was deported with no due process and currently no prospect of reuniting with his family. And you're still trying to see things "both ways." There is very little gray here, my man. The Supreme Court ruled 9-0 that he was illegally deported. The Trump admin admitted he was illegally deported. But now they're lying in the media because they know people like you are going to look for every possible opportunity to not believe the obvious truth. 

Let's spin it around. There was "obviously a reason" Trump was charged with fraud in NY. Why don't you think he should have been detained and held without trial? Surely, the reason they charged him is good enough to assume he's guilty and keep him in jail, no?

Clearly there was a reason that Hitler wanted to kill the Jews? And clearly those people Stalin killed were enemies of the state, right? And surely, we had a good reason for Japanese Internment? Right? 

This is an abdication of moral judgment and it is cowardly. It is exactly the type of cowardice (and cowardice is giving you the benefit of the doubt) that allowed German citizens to ignore what was happening in their country.

 

[uncle bernard]

7 minutes ago, jross said:

This is exactly what it looks like when listening.  It's just so obstinate and disappointing.  An opportunity to show part of why this admin came to power... to bring accountability and transparency.

I support the aggressive deportation of aliens with criminal associations.  Mistakes will be made.  Admit it.  Address it.

The 9-0 supreme court claim is total spin through omission of what was heavily critical of the USA actions.

The spin isn't 'as bad' if this guy really is gang associated.  Like some poopouri was sprayed after, you know?

I'm going to hold out partial judgement for possible clarity to gang evidence.

This is one of the most naive/gullible beliefs I've ever seen. Lying is the foundational principle of Trump's worldview. You have to be willingly ignorant to actually believe that.

[jross]

That he was here illegally through 2018 does not change that he was here legally from 2019 through 2025.

Even if he was a gang member before being detained in 2018, I have no problem with him becoming a US citizen given the larger context of his stay, overall clean record, family man, ...what's been shared with the public.

If what we know is true; this is horrendous on the current administration.

It is also a black eye on the previous administrations that allowed illegal immigration to reach the point of recent, necessary, deportation policies.

[jross]

6 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

This is one of the most naive/gullible beliefs I've ever seen. Lying is the foundational principle of Trump's worldview. You have to be willingly ignorant to actually believe that.

I'll double down on it.

You and I are just referring to different areas of accountability and transparency.  

[uncle bernard]

2 minutes ago, jross said:

I'll double down on it.

You and I are just referring to different areas of accountability and transparency.  

What do you think about Trump not divesting from his private businesses like every other president? Is maintaining a huge private business, which isn't subject to the same type of scrutiny as a government agency, not a way to reduce transparency? Do we know that he wasn't accepting bribes through investments in his business?

For example, he does a ton of private business with the Gulf States, while controlling US Public Policy towards them. Is that accountable and transparent?

[jross]

38 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

What do you think about Trump not divesting from his private businesses like every other president? Is maintaining a huge private business, which isn't subject to the same type of scrutiny as a government agency, not a way to reduce transparency? Do we know that he wasn't accepting bribes through investments in his business?

For example, he does a ton of private business with the Gulf States, while controlling US Public Policy towards them. Is that accountable and transparent?

No we don't know if he accepted bribes and it doesn't strongly bother me.  Trump had the most insider knowledge and power to rig markets, yet ended his presidential term with significantly less money than he started.  My concern is decisions profiting Trump while causing unethical harm, like if he owned a weapons or oil company and pushed endless wars.  What is an example of a bribe to Trump that caused an unethical policy?

FWIW: the internet says that other presidents owned smaller business that they did not divest from.  Nothing comparable to Trump so a moot point from me...

[jross]

The transparency and accountability that Trump voters want

• radical transparency on government spending and waste reduction
• audit of foreign aid, pentagon, etc.
• fire corrupt, woke, undermining type bureaucrats, activist judges, and DEI activists in federal jobs
• lobbyist restrictions
• declassification of hidden documents on JFK, Epstein, and COVID origins
• exposure of intelligence agency abuses (Jan 6, Russia probe, assassination origins, big tech censorship, fbi entrapment)
• 10-to-1 deregulations 
• honest metrics (border security, jobs, vaccine harm)
• election integrity

Edited Tuesday at 07:51 PM by jross

[BigRedFan]

1 hour ago, jross said:

The transparency and accountability that Trump voters want

• radical transparency on government spending and waste reduction
• audit of foreign aid, pentagon, etc.
• fire corrupt, woke, undermining type bureaucrats, activist judges, and DEI activists in federal jobs
• lobbyist restrictions
• declassification of hidden documents on JFK, Epstein, and COVID origins
• exposure of intelligence agency abuses (Jan 6, Russia probe, assassination origins, big tech censorship, fbi entrapment)
• 10-to-1 deregulations 
• honest metrics (border security, jobs, vaccine harm)
• election integrity

Transparency:  we had a system of Inspectors General whose sole jobs were to investigate fraud and waste.  Said IGs were non-partisan and independent.  Trump fired them all.

Audits take time.  DOGE was ill-equipped to accomplish these tasks, made egregious errors, attempted and still attempt to hide from public view their actions, and claimed fraud and waste where none existed.  Coincidentally, agencies that were shuttered or defunded were investigating Musk's many companies.

Not gonna comment on anything invoking "woke."

Why didn't we see anything declassified in Trump 45, and where are these documents now?  It's because there is no "there" there.

Trump voters are blaming January 6 on the IC?

Get rid of the regulations that gave us clean air, clean water, food safety, and myriad other improvements, all the while allowing the economy to thrive?

Honest metrics?  Because they believe the mis- and dis-information campaigns?

Trump supporters refuse to believe the overwhelming evidence that elections are secure?

Trump was right:  he loves the uneducated.

[Caveira]

4 hours ago, ionel said:

What does him being a father have to do with this issue?  

It adds emotion to the story. emotion is part of certain narratives….. Like when they refuse to call illegal aliens “illegal” and they call them undocumented….. or asylum seekers or whatever.  Both sides do it.   But it is what it is.  
 

10 million illegals flow over the boarder during the Biden admin.   Now that they found a “grey immigration” case they will try to get as many emotional news cycles out of this as they possibly can.  They want illegals here because they want them to vote blue.  The politicians don’t care about said el Salvadoran…. The people arguing on this site likely do… and that’s the emotion they are playing on.  

[jross]

2 hours ago, BigRedFan said:

Transparency:  we had a system of Inspectors General whose sole jobs were to investigate fraud and waste.  Said IGs were non-partisan and independent.  Trump fired them all.

Audits take time.  DOGE was ill-equipped to accomplish these tasks, made egregious errors, attempted and still attempt to hide from public view their actions, and claimed fraud and waste where none existed.  Coincidentally, agencies that were shuttered or defunded were investigating Musk's many companies.

Not gonna comment on anything invoking "woke."

Why didn't we see anything declassified in Trump 45, and where are these documents now?  It's because there is no "there" there.

Trump voters are blaming January 6 on the IC?

Get rid of the regulations that gave us clean air, clean water, food safety, and myriad other improvements, all the while allowing the economy to thrive?

Honest metrics?  Because they believe the mis- and dis-information campaigns?

Trump supporters refuse to believe the overwhelming evidence that elections are secure?

Trump was right:  he loves the uneducated.

You could just say the reasons are dumb in your opinion... 

What percentage of people in your circle before 2025 could tell you what an inspective general does and give a positive opinion on addressing fraud and waste?

How does the performance of DOGE relate to the Trump voter's interest in auditing the government?

There is more rationale to hide what is "there" than suppress that nothing is "there." The promise was exciting... the delivery not so much.

Why so negative nancy?  A good faith assessment of deregulation is appropriate here.

Honest metrics

• CDC - remember when lab-confirmed flu cases dropped from > 100K to < 5K, and flu deaths dropped from 50K to < 5K.  Remember when vaccine side effects were minimized and dismissed?
• Jobs 
  • The spin on job creation that was largely job recovery, part-time jobs, gig jobs, and government expansion
  • This senator letter questioning the 'red-hot' job market
    
    Given the numerous downward jobs revisions published by the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) over the last two years, we are seeking information regarding the BLS’s methodology in estimating job numbers in addition to why the BLS has failed to accurately assess changes in labor participation. For example, in recent months, the American people have witnessed a monthly 97,000 downward revision for January 2024,  a 300,000 total downward revision as part of the BLS’s annual 2023 benchmark review,  and, most recently, an 818,000 total downward revision for jobs created in the 12-month period through March 2024.  This revision to the 2024 benchmark review is 28 percent lower than the original BLS estimate of 2.9 million jobs created,  the second worst revision in U.S. history, and one of many data points accentuating the harm that Bidenomics has brought to the American people.   
    
    These discrepancies, representing jobs that the Biden-Harris Administration claimed to have created, which simply do not exist, were reported as signs of economic dynamism and positive job creation. There were multiple instances over the last year in which news outlets reported that the job market was “strong,”  “red-hot,”  or “sizzling,”  to name a few. News outlets took initial BLS data at face value, concluding that the job market was strong.  
    
    https://www.marshall.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/Marshall-Budd-Scott-Blackburn-Mullin-Letter-re-DOL-Downward-Job-Revisions-8.27.24-Final.pdf

Election security is not a partisan issue.

 

Edited Tuesday at 11:53 PM by jross

[1032004]

8 hours ago, BigRedFan said:

I stopped reading here.  Garcia was married while in jail.

https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/abrego-garcia-and-ms-13--what-do-we-know#postContributors

I’m more confused why being married with children was under the “evidence of gang membership” column.   Do we assume people hate their wife and kid so much that they’d rather join a gang than spend time with them?

[1032004]

Cop who filed initial report alleging this guy was MS-13 was previously indicted and plead guilty to “providing information to a commercial sex worker that he was paying in exchange for sex acts”

https://newrepublic.com/article/194010/kilmar-abrego-garcia-case-trump-deported-error-another-hit

Edited Wednesday at 02:57 AM by 1032004

[Scouts Honor]

15 hours ago, BigRedFan said:

Transparency:  we had a system of Inspectors General whose sole jobs were to investigate fraud and waste.  Said IGs were non-partisan and independent.  Trump fired them all.

Audits take time.  DOGE was ill-equipped to accomplish these tasks, made egregious errors, attempted and still attempt to hide from public view their actions, and claimed fraud and waste where none existed.  Coincidentally, agencies that were shuttered or defunded were investigating Musk's many companies.

 

yes, for decades we had the foxes watching the hen house and they found nothing

and did nothing

so they got fired. 

audits take time... we have had millions of them... and nothing ever became of them

the fraud and corruption have grown every year

[wrestlingguy]

15 hours ago, Caveira said:

It adds emotion to the story. emotion is part of certain narratives….. Like when they refuse to call illegal aliens “illegal” and they call them undocumented….. or asylum seekers or whatever.  Both sides do it.   But it is what it is.  
 

10 million illegals flow over the boarder during the Biden admin.   Now that they found a “grey immigration” case they will try to get as many emotional news cycles out of this as they possibly can.  They want illegals here because they want them to vote blue.  The politicians don’t care about said el Salvadoran…. The people arguing on this site likely do… and that’s the emotion they are playing on.  

In my opinion it's all virtue signaling. Like when they all kneeled on the capitol floor draped in kente cloth. They don't care about them they just want their vote and the appearance of caring.

[JimmySpeaks]

https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-abrego-garcias-wife-responds-after-restraining-order-revealed-2060718
 

 

Sounds like he’s a wife beater