Trump's Concentration Camp

[Ohio Elite]

52 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

https://www.thecity.nyc/2025/04/14/bronx-ice-merwil-gutierrez-el-salvador/

 

What about this kid? I notice many of you just didn't respond, I'm sure accidentally. No crimes in his life, didn't cross the border until given permission, and now he's in the same El Salvadoran "prison."

Laken Riley approves....

 

[VakAttack]

1 minute ago, Ohio Elite said:

Laken Riley approves....

 

Of what?  This kid didn't do anything to Laken Riley.  He followed the (extremely complicated and contradictory) laws as well as they can be followed and what conservatives claim they want.  And now he's in a horror show of a prison.  For...being born in another country?

[uncle bernard]

9 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Depending on whether the findings agree with your worldview?

You don't believe in anything other than the domination of "the other." Truth is fiction and fiction is truth. We can't possibly know anything. All we know is what we have the power to do - in this case, deport whoever we want, whenever we want.

This is fascism.

[uncle bernard]

8 minutes ago, Ohio Elite said:

Laken Riley approves....

 

You are a Nazi. There is no grey area anymore. Pure bloodlust and hatred.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

Just now, uncle bernard said:

You don't believe in anything other than the domination of "the other." Truth is fiction and fiction is truth. We can't possibly know anything. All we know is what we have the power to do - in this case, deport whoever we want, whenever we want.

This is fascism.

I'm talking about the findings of the American legal system.  You agree with all of these findings? 

I'm guessing you only agree with ones that support your arguments.  Am I on to something?

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 minute ago, uncle bernard said:

You are a Nazi. There is no grey area anymore. Pure bloodlust and hatred.

He is a national socialist?

[Bigbrog]

Just now, uncle bernard said:

You are a Nazi. There is no grey area anymore. Pure bloodlust and hatred.

Dude...are you okay...you are posting complete nonsense and irrationally...walk away from the big bad mean threads and go attend a rally or something with your "kind" and "inclusive" friends

[VakAttack]

Just now, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I'm talking about the findings of the American legal system.  You agree with all of these findings? 

I'm guessing you only agree with ones that support your arguments.  Am I on to something?

It very literally does not matter if you (or he) agree with the findings of the legal system.  The fact is that the man in question was here, legally, and was in a court process and was taken, illegally, and dumped in an El Salvadoran prison in what the Trump administration admitted in court was a mistake, and now they're doing nothing to fix their own mistake, and some of you guys are just like "tough break, go to prison."

[1032004]

14 hours ago, ionel said:

I thought El Salvador also said he was  MS-13.  But my point/question: is there a known way of proving that someone belongs to some group.  For example how do you prove that I am a member of the PortaJohn fan club?  

Phone records and showing correspondence with other known gang members (who may have admitted it) would probably be a good start.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 minute ago, VakAttack said:

It very literally does not matter if you (or he) agree with the findings of the legal system.  The fact is that the man in question was here, legally, and was in a court process and was taken, illegally, and dumped in an El Salvadoran prison in what the Trump administration admitted in court was a mistake, and now they're doing nothing to fix their own mistake, and some of you guys are just like "tough break, go to prison."

I'm not talking about this particular situation where I have very mixed feelings.  I'm a believer in due process.  If what I have heard/read is true, he is a bad dude, and our country is better off with him being elsewhere.  However, I would have preferred if everything had gone through the proper channels.

However, I can't imagine our mutual friend would be such an absolutist regarding "findings of the American legal system" such as Trump v US, Dodds, etc.  That was what I was  posting about.

[VakAttack]

Just now, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I'm not talking about this particular situation where I have very mixed feelings.  I'm a believer in due process.  If what I have heard/read is true, he is a bad dude, and our country is better off with him being elsewhere.  However, I would have preferred if everything had gone through the proper channels.

However, I can't imagine our mutual friend would be such an absolutist regarding "findings of the American legal system" such as Trump v US, Dodds, etc.  That was what I was  posting about.

And that's fine, I'm not involving myself in your guy's personal dispute.  I'm focused on the two individuals referenced here who are currently wallowing in an El Salvadoran prison after having their due process rights violated.  I just wanted to clarify it doesn't really matter what either of your opinions are on the court orders, I disagree with court orders all the time; that doesn't mean I get to ignore them.

[jross]

9 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

It very literally does not matter if you (or he) agree with the findings of the legal system.  The fact is that the man in question was here, legally, and was in a court process and was taken, illegally, and dumped in an El Salvadoran prison in what the Trump administration admitted in court was a mistake, and now they're doing nothing to fix their own mistake, and some of you guys are just like "tough break, go to prison."

They frame the case as lawful and valid.  We do not have the court documents in public, or any other evidence than hearsay, that he was confirmed part of the MS 13 gang.

• Bondi
  • He was illegally in our country before being detained in 2019.
  • Two courts found he was part of the MS 13 gang and he was illegally in our country.
  • The supreme court rules that if El Salvador wants to return him, the USA would facilitate it.
• Miller
  • Illegal alien in the U.S., from El Salvador
  • He is a citizen of El Salvador
  • It is arrogant to tell El Salvador how to handle their own citizen
  • Two courts identify Abrego as a member of the gang MS 13
  • When Trump declared a member of the MS 13 gang to be a foreign terrorist organization, Abrego was no longer eligible under federal law for any immigration relief in the United States.
  • He had a deportation order and had to be returned
  • The supreme court clearly stated the the USA could not compel El Salvador to return him. (9-0 in our favor against the district court ruling that the USA could not be compelled to go get Abrego back on their own accords)
  • If Abrego was your neighbor, you would move right away.
• President from El Salvador
  • How can I return a terrorist to the USA?  I'm not smuggling him.  I don't have the power to return him to the U.S.

 

[uncle bernard]

8 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

Dude...are you okay...you are posting complete nonsense and irrationally...walk away from the big bad mean threads and go attend a rally or something with your "kind" and "inclusive" friends

You guys are arguing that a father should be left to rot in one of the worst prisons in the world because we made a mistake, but "it's not our problem" anymore.

Then @Ohio Elite brings up a totally unconnected murder case to justify it. Do you think he would argue we should leave Laken Riley in prison because it's not our problem anymore, even though we've acknowledged it was a mistake? I wonder what the difference is between these two legal residents is? Hmmmmm.....What else would you call that kind of enthonationalism?

[VakAttack]

1 minute ago, jross said:

They frame the case as lawful and valid.  We do not have the court documents in public, or any other evidence than hearsay, that he was confirmed part of the MS 13 gang.

• Bondi
  • He was illegally in our country before being detained in 2019.
  • Two courts found he was part of the MS 13 gang and he was illegally in our country.
  • The supreme court rules that if El Salvador wants to return him, the USA would facilitate it.
• Miller
  • Illegal alien in the U.S., from El Salvador
  • He is a citizen of El Salvador
  • It is arrogant to tell El Salvador how to handle their own citizen
  • Two courts identify Abrego as a member of the gang MS 13
  • When Trump declared a member of the MS 13 gang to be a foreign terrorist organization, Abrego was no longer eligible under federal law for any immigration relief in the United States.
  • He had a deportation order and had to be returned
  • The supreme court clearly stated the the USA could not compel El Salvador to return him. (9-0 in our favor against the district court ruling that the USA could not be compelled to go get Abrego back on their own accords)
  • If Abrego was your neighbor, you would move right away.
• President from El Salvador
  • How can I return a terrorist to the USA?  I'm not smuggling him.  I don't have the power to return him to the U.S.

 

There is a court order that has already been shared in this thread, preventing his deportation.  The Trump administration also acknowledged in court it was a mistake.  Nothing you post will change that.

[uncle bernard]

2 minutes ago, jross said:

They frame the case as lawful and valid.  We do not have the court documents in public, or any other evidence than hearsay, that he was confirmed part of the MS 13 gang.

• Bondi
  • He was illegally in our country before being detained in 2019.
  • Two courts found he was part of the MS 13 gang and he was illegally in our country.
  • The supreme court rules that if El Salvador wants to return him, the USA would facilitate it.
• Miller
  • Illegal alien in the U.S., from El Salvador
  • He is a citizen of El Salvador
  • It is arrogant to tell El Salvador how to handle their own citizen
  • Two courts identify Abrego as a member of the gang MS 13
  • When Trump declared a member of the MS 13 gang to be a foreign terrorist organization, Abrego was no longer eligible under federal law for any immigration relief in the United States.
  • He had a deportation order and had to be returned
  • The supreme court clearly stated the the USA could not compel El Salvador to return him. (9-0 in our favor against the district court ruling that the USA could not be compelled to go get Abrego back on their own accords)
  • If Abrego was your neighbor, you would move right away.
• President from El Salvador
  • How can I return a terrorist to the USA?  I'm not smuggling him.  I don't have the power to return him to the U.S.

 

You're leaving out the very important fact that his deportation order in 2019 was rescinded. The administration is lying to stoke their racist base to defend them (while quietly admitting they did this illegally in court proceedings). 

You have to be smarter than this. You can't be this gullible. Use some critical thinking skills. Person A says the sky is green. That doesn't actually mean the sky is green.

[PortaJohn]

13 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

There is a court order that has already been shared in this thread, preventing his deportation.  The Trump administration also acknowledged in court it was a mistake.  Nothing you post will change that.

Vak, how knowledgeable/familiar are you with Immigration Law?  Was discussing with a friend and trying to determine if the withholding of removal status only applied to El Salvador.  During a conversation heard a claim that Garcia could have been legally deported to another country.  Just curious. 

Edited 19 hours ago by PortaJohn

[WrestlingRash]

2 hours ago, scourge165 said:

I'm sure you were told that by someone at some point in time, but it was nonsense then and...shockingly, it remains nonsense.

You must invest a certain amount of money into American business.

-You must create X number of FULL TIME jobs. Do Gas Stations generally require 10 full time workers(before you're dumb enough to try and answer yes, the answer...is in fact, no). 

So no, you cannot just buy a gas station and "get citizenship."

 

So confidently stoopid. 

I've had athletes move here from other countries who did exactly this. You are young, its obvious. You are pretty aggressively ignorant, but thats your choice. Enjoy it!

[jross]

26 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

You're leaving out the very important fact that his deportation order in 2019 was rescinded. The administration is lying to stoke their racist base to defend them (while quietly admitting they did this illegally in court proceedings). 

You have to be smarter than this. You can't be this gullible. Use some critical thinking skills. Person A says the sky is green. That doesn't actually mean the sky is green.

Did "I" leave it out?  No, I shared what Bondi/Miller stated.  This is the second time you've been weird in this topic.  The first time was informing me that I discovered what 'due process' is.

I've been critical of this.

The level of 'wrongness' relates to whether he is in a gang or not.

How did his older brother get his citizenship?  What does his older brother say about this?

 

[uncle bernard]

2 minutes ago, jross said:

Did "I" leave it out?  No, I shared what Bondi/Miller stated.  This is the second time you've been weird in this topic.  The first time was informing me that I discovered what 'due process' is.

I've been critical of this.

The level of 'wrongness' relates to whether he is in a gang or not.

How did his older brother get his citizenship?  What does his older brother say about this?

 

Why would you share something you know to be false without any kind of critical qualification? 

You can't naively post ignorant stuff and then complain when people poke fun at or criticize you.

You do this frequently and then complain when people point out how stupid some of the stuff you post is. "Oh, I don't actually believe that. I'm just posting what others are saying." Maybe you should take some.....personal accountability?

[jross]

8 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Why would you share something you know to be false without any kind of critical qualification? 

You can't naively post ignorant stuff and then complain when people poke fun at or criticize you.

You do this frequently and then complain when people point out how stupid some of the stuff you post is. "Oh, I don't actually believe that. I'm just posting what others are saying." Maybe you should take some.....personal accountability?

Are you really going to be one of those people?

[jross]

16 minutes ago, jross said:

The level of 'wrongness' relates to whether he is in a gang or not.

How did his older brother get his citizenship?  What does his older brother say about this?

Do any of us have the court cases from 2019 or is everything second-hand discussion?

Evidence Suggesting Gang Membership:

• Abrego was already married with children before he was detained in 2018 at a Home Depot.
• One person present in the Home Depot detailed group admitted to gang affiliation. 
• Abrego filed for asylum after ICE detained him.
• The immigration judge denied his asylum request in October 2019 but granted him “withholding of removal” due to a “well-founded fear” of gang persecution in El Salvador
• A “trusted” and “proven reliable” informant, per a 2019 immigration judge, accused Abrego of being an MS-13 gang member and specified his rank. The judge found this credible enough to justify continued detention during his immigration case. 

Evidence Against Gang Membership:

• No Charges: Kilmar was never charged with any gang-related crimes or activities
• Kilmar’s Denial and Asylum Claim: Kilmar denied gang involvement and sought asylum
• After the judge’s October 2019 ruling, ICE released Kilmar and didn’t appeal the decision
• Life after release does not involve arrests or gang accusations

The mistake makes sense and the current context says this is wrong...  badly wrong...

Edited 18 hours ago by jross

[jross]

28 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Why would you share something you know to be false without any kind of critical qualification? 

You can't naively post ignorant stuff and then complain when people poke fun at or criticize you.

You do this frequently and then complain when people point out how stupid some of the stuff you post is. "Oh, I don't actually believe that. I'm just posting what others are saying." Maybe you should take some.....personal accountability?

Vak made a post that focused on "Trump administration admitted in court was a mistake."  I posted the framing that the administration shared on video.  Miller says it is "not a mistake."  I made zero opinions about the video, and you didn't ask.  If you read my first couple posts in this, you would know my thoughts.  But like scourge likes to do, you reframed with bias.  This is manipulative and done in bad faith.

For what I shared, you should criticize the administration that is spinning.  It is unfair to invent my view and then criticize it.  Its bull*hit.

If you want to pin me down on a view, ask for a direct answer.  Don't join the asshat brigade.

If you can't recognize when reframing with bias is occurring, or you wish to do so yourself, *uck off.  Feel free to call me out when I do it too... 

 

Edited 18 hours ago by jross
address the word police

[1032004]

1 hour ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I'm not talking about this particular situation where I have very mixed feelings.  I'm a believer in due process.  If what I have heard/read is true, he is a bad dude, and our country is better off with him being elsewhere. 

To my knowledge, him being a “bad dude” is based on the claim by a criminal informant that was also arrested at the same time as this guy while standing outside of a Home Depot and one report filed by a cop who has since been suspended.

[Bigbrog]

1 hour ago, uncle bernard said:

You guys are arguing that a father should be left to rot in one of the worst prisons in the world because we made a mistake, but "it's not our problem" anymore.

Then @Ohio Elite brings up a totally unconnected murder case to justify it. Do you think he would argue we should leave Laken Riley in prison because it's not our problem anymore, even though we've acknowledged it was a mistake? I wonder what the difference is between these two legal residents is? Hmmmmm.....What else would you call that kind of enthonationalism?

More proof you are unhinged...you put me in the group defending this person being kept in El Salvador...please point out one post I have made about said subject that says that.  So in your blind unhingness you have no idea what my stance is.  I am commenting on your repeated crazy claims of fascist, Nazi's, racists, ethnonationalism, etc.  You are throwing around those disgusting words just because someone disagrees with you...and those disagreement doesn't equal any those things you claim.

My stance on this situation...I sort of see it both ways...I think the truth is somewhere in the middle of all of it.  There is obviously a reason he was deported based on the information that ICE had (other than you and other's claims of racism, fascism, dictatorship, etc.), he probably was trying to turn his life around, this may have been a case that needed to be looked at more closely before he was deported, and there is probably a reason El Salvador is keeping him locked up. 

Do people in El Salvador get due process when they are in jail/prison??  Can they keep people in there for no reason? 

And seriously dude...take a break...you are just spewing emotional nonsense and calling people horrible things just because they have a different opinion.

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, uncle bernard said:

You're leaving out the very important fact that his deportation order in 2019 was rescinded. The administration is lying to stoke their racist base to defend them (while quietly admitting they did this illegally in court proceedings). 

You have to be smarter than this. You can't be this gullible. Use some critical thinking skills. Person A says the sky is green. That doesn't actually mean the sky is green.

I kept thinking the same thing. He's parroting Stephen Mueller is. I think we keep believing this despite all evidence to the contrary. 

Which one of these guys did they argue to the Court was MS-13 because of the Tatoo of a Soccer team that just had a crown over a soccer ball. That was the sum total of their evidence.  

 

I don't know, I'm just finding it amusing that the same guy will defend Trump's attempt to circumvent the constitution by going around the electoral College because he "understands" his feelings, but now we're determining if a guy is a gang member and 2 courts didn't determine that, an appellate court didn't overrule that and it's effectively akin to a PC preliminary hearing. The State says they are, they are. 

 

But now Trump is thumbing his nose at SCOTUS.