New award needed?

[Dark Energy]

Is an award needed for the year’s ’best’ college wrestler?  Differ from Hodge in that dominance may factor in but isn’t a primary factor.  
 

Something closer to the Heisman.  Perhaps Flo can sponsor it.  

[ionel]

Just now, Dark Energy said:

Is an award needed for the year’s ’best’ college wrestler?  Differ from Hodge in that dominance may factor in but isn’t a primary factor.  
 

Something closer to the Heisman.  Perhaps Flo can sponsor it.  

No

[Scouts Honor]

no

the most dominant is most likely the best 

[Spencerlee]

No

[Dogbone]

The participation trophy generation wants more trophies, who saw that coming. 

[Caveira]

Nope

[okokzach]

38 minutes ago, Dark Energy said:

Is an award needed for the year’s ’best’ college wrestler?  Differ from Hodge in that dominance may factor in but isn’t a primary factor.  
 

Something closer to the Heisman.  Perhaps Flo can sponsor it.  

Let's do Most Valuable Wrestler.

Wyatt averaged 5.15 points per match this season (no one else reached even 4.80), and scored the most in the NCAA tourney with 26.0 team points (next best was 24.0). 

Congratulations to Mr. Hendrickson, on winning the inaugural MVW!

[wrestle87]

7 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

The participation trophy generation wants more trophies, who saw that coming. 

This is such a weak take.

The “participation” generation are the parents who demanded trophies for their kids.

[bnwtwg]

7 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

The participation trophy generation wants more trophies, who saw that coming. 

As a millienial, I saw it coming the moment all the Gen X and Boomer parents started making those participation trophies for all my kids club tournaments recognizing my great accomplishment of taking 6th in a 6 person bracket.

[cl415]

Not interested in a new award. Somewhat related, I have been toying around with the idea of a dominance percentage that could be used for Hodge purposes. It’s essentially a weighted bonus percentage that factors in the wrestlestat ranking of the opponent. It’s kind of interesting. For example Wyatt scores much higher than Carter despite Carter having a slightly higher bonus rate. 

[Le duke]

12 minutes ago, okokzach said:

Let's do Most Valuable Wrestler.

Wyatt averaged 5.15 points per match this season (no one else reached even 4.80), and scored the most in the NCAA tourney with 26.0 team points (next best was 24.0). 

Congratulations to Mr. Hendrickson, on winning the inaugural MVW!

Given that HWT matches are almost twice as likely to end in a FALL as any other weight class, that's not exactly the best method of comparison.

 

Edited Monday at 05:47 PM by Le duke

[Caveira]

1 minute ago, Le duke said:

Given that HWT matches are almost twice as likely to end in a FALL as any other weight class, that's not exactly the best method of comparison.

 

Just enough pins to win the hodge eh?

[strange_daze]

5 minutes ago, Le duke said:

Given that HWT matches are almost twice as likely to end in a FALL as any other weight class, that's not exactly the best method of comparison.

 

This is a useful data point. Carter had 6 pins out of 27 matches (~22%). Wyatt had 13 pins out of 27 matches (~48%). If these calculations are correct, they both more than doubled the average pins for their weight. Hendrickson still has the edge however--pinning roughly half your competition is no joke, regardless of weight.

[CHROMEBIRD]

Everyone hates the idea of a participation trophy, but hear me out, it wouldn't be so bad if there was an award for wrestlers who actually go out and wrestle all their matches, no ducking. More points given in the award rankings to wrestlers who compete against highly ranked opponents or for those who bump up or down to face tougher competition. NIL deals (probably a gray area at best) or salary could then be structured with incentives for being an award finalist or winning it. Also, I think it should be called the Participation & Cojones Trophy until a namesake can be identified.

[ionel]

What if we added an annual jimmy goat award?

[Wrestleknownothing]

43 minutes ago, okokzach said:

Let's do Most Valuable Wrestler.

Wyatt averaged 5.15 points per match this season (no one else reached even 4.80), and scored the most in the NCAA tourney with 26.0 team points (next best was 24.0). 

Congratulations to Mr. Hendrickson, on winning the inaugural MVW!

The way WIN calculates dominance, Hendrickson was at 5.26, Mesenbrink was at 5.11, and Starocci was at 4.88. They include inj/def. Hendrickson had 1, Mesenbrink had 3, and Starocci had 1.

[jross]

24 minutes ago, strange_daze said:

This is a useful data point. Carter had 6 pins out of 27 matches (~22%). Wyatt had 13 pins out of 27 matches (~48%). If these calculations are correct, they both more than doubled the average pins for their weight. Hendrickson still has the edge however--pinning roughly half your competition is no joke, regardless of weight.

22% compared to 10.5% baseline. (2.1x) - Carter
48% compared to 21.0% baseline. (2.3x) - Wyatt

Hendrickson still comes out on top.

It is interesting that Heavyweights have won the majority of the Hodges (twice the amount of other individual weights).  There is a shallower depth and athleticism.  As a counter, the heavyweights would consistently dominate the best of the lighter weights...

Wyatt would dominate Carter.

[jross]

1 hour ago, Dark Energy said:

Is an award needed for the year’s ’best’ college wrestler?  Differ from Hodge in that dominance may factor in but isn’t a primary factor.  

The Hodge was specifically created to bring the Heisman-like award to wrestling.

Mike Chapman wrote in a W.I.N. Magazine piece celebrating 20 years of the Hodge, “We wanted to give wrestling its own Heisman Trophy, something to honor the best of the best.”

[Wrestleknownothing]

3 minutes ago, jross said:

The Hodge was specifically created to bring the Heisman-like award to wrestling.

Mike Chapman wrote in a W.I.N. Magazine piece celebrating 20 years of the Hodge, “We wanted to give wrestling its own Heisman Trophy, something to honor the best of the best.”

He also wrote about it on the message board recently.

Good discussion and beneficial to anyone interested in wrestlers being honored. When I first came up with the concept back in 1994, I sat down with Dan Hodge (my first book was "Two Guys Named Dan" in 1976 and we became very good friends) and told him of my plans to create something similar to the Heisman Trophy, to draw more media attention and to give college wrestlers something extra to shoot for. Dan endorsed the idea and said if I named it after him, he would like pinning to be an essential part. In 1956, Dan won three national titles (collegiate, freestyle and Greco-Roman) in two weeks time by pinning all 13 foes. I quickly agreed that pinning would be a main factor. But since then, Bryan Van Kley (who bought WIN from me many years ago) and I have tried to "keep up with the times" by including dominance to mean techs and majors, as well as pins. And we consult with many former coaches and leaders of the sport who are on the voting committee and try to listen to what fans are saying (WKN and JB, in particular) and some of my longtime friends who have been involved with the sport for over half a century. Bryan and I are proud that over 20,000 fans vote on line each year and that all the colleges that have a winner play it up big, both at the annual wrestling banquet and at a football game in the fall, often with 70,000 fans in attendance. And we greatly appreciate our sponsor Asics. The goal was always to make wrestling more visible and to honor those who excel at Mankind's Oldest Sport.  -- Mike Chapman

We are lucky to have him on the board.

[okokzach]

15 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

The way WIN calculates dominance, Hendrickson was at 5.26, Mesenbrink was at 5.11, and Starocci was at 4.88. They include inj/def. Hendrickson had 1, Mesenbrink had 3, and Starocci had 1.

I assume WIN also does not include the All Star Classic? 

That's interesting about including forfeits. I know Paddy clearly ducked MM, but I don't know what the circumstances were for the Mizzou and Binghamton forfeits. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

5 minutes ago, okokzach said:

I assume WIN also does not include the All Star Classic? 

That's interesting about including forfeits. I know Paddy clearly ducked MM, but I don't know what the circumstances were for the Mizzou and Binghamton forfeits. 

They do not include the all-star. The Missouri wrestler had been injured in the prior match and was not ducking. Not sure what happened with Binghamton.

[Dark Energy]

Good convo.  Just seems like A LOT of people are seeking ways to say Carter is the better wrestler even though Wyatt’s pin % and dominance score is way higher.  They are looking at other metrics (such as AAs wrestled and bonuses) to imply that Carter is the better wrestler.  

<Note, they also try to imply Carter is more dominant which is wrong on its face, but I can see arguing Carter is better>

[Caveira]

Got my hopes up.  He was always a class act wasn’t he 

 

 

[Dark Energy]

Looks like Bo Nickal is being clear that he wants the Hodge to be for the ‘best wrestler’ … so he wants the criteria changed for the Hodge.  OR … like I’m suggesting - a new award is needed.  Hey Bo!  Make it happen!

[bnwtwg]

4 minutes ago, Dark Energy said:

Looks like Bo Nickal is being clear that he wants the Hodge to be for the ‘best wrestler’ … so he wants the criteria changed for the Hodge.  OR … like I’m suggesting - a new award is needed.  Hey Bo!  Make it happen!

Under those circumstances, Bo would surely give his Hodge to Nolf he was clearly a better pure wrestler right? When Bo was trying to shake hands and play pat-ass Nolf was throwing Winn-Dixies innovating the sport.