How in the world did the government spending get so far off the tracks? In less than a month Elon will and his 20 year olds will pry 1 trillion dollars out of the politicians cold dead hands. will

[fishbane]

46 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

the military is full of fraud. but I want them to be sure they get that right.

practice on the DEI bull first (the frivolous stuff)

Not sure I like the strategy.  DEI spending is likely a small fraction of overall waste.  Doesn't it often manifest in hiring decisions rather than an outlay of cash to be cut?  Eliminating that doesn't seem like it would address the deficit in a meaningful way.

I would think that getting the DOD to pass an audit would have bipartisan support. They also have the largest budget of any agency so you might make some meaningful progress in trimming the deficit. A success there could improve DOGEs approval and give them more rope to work with either to fight the DEI culture war or address SSA and Medicare spending.

[Scouts Honor]

1 hour ago, fishbane said:

Not sure I like the strategy.  DEI spending is likely a small fraction of overall waste.  Doesn't it often manifest in hiring decisions rather than an outlay of cash to be cut?  Eliminating that doesn't seem like it would address the deficit in a meaningful way.

I would think that getting the DOD to pass an audit would have bipartisan support. They also have the largest budget of any agency so you might make some meaningful progress in trimming the deficit. A success there could improve DOGEs approval and give them more rope to work with either to fight the DEI culture war or address SSA and Medicare spending.

all of DEI is fraud... 

and I probably shouldn't have used DEI as my example. im talking about pork in all of its forms

 

i would agree that success in cutting fat from the DOD would be good, but I don't see dems coming on board to laud it

[red viking]

What a joke. They'll cut "fraud," which is now defined by the wingers as anything they don't like. 

Cut 0.03% of budget so far. Deficit actually went way up last month. 

They have to use a made up definition because otherwise they're savings fractions of a fraction of a penny on the dollar. Way less than the 0.03% number above. 

Meanwhile, overall spending and the deficit continue to skyrocket. The wingers are so hypocritical, talking a big game but refusing to touch the big expenses in the fed govt that actually drive the budget. Social security, military and medicare spending continue to grow wildly. 

Cowards!!!!

Edited March 16 by red viking

[fishbane]

4 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

all of DEI is fraud... 

I wouldn't say that.  There are certainly bad implementations and situations where it is inappropriate, but I think it serves a valuable purpose in some instances.  For example in the criminal justice system there is a concept of being judge by a jury of ones peers.  I think getting a jury that matches the demographics of the community is seen as important to a lot of people from both political parties for good reason.

4 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

and I probably shouldn't have used DEI as my example. im talking about pork in all of its forms

The problem with pork is that it comes from Congress which will mean that DOGE will have limited ability to stop it.  It's also practiced by both parties so Trump will face backlash from some Republicans by trimming it.  USAID spends big money buying food grown on US farms to send as aid to other countries.  Eliminating it will hurt a lot of farmers is red parts of the country.

4 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

I would agree that success in cutting fat from the DOD would be good, but I don't see dems coming on board to laud it

I can't imagine anyone complaining if DOGE was able to figure out where the DOD's money was going.  It just wouldn't make sense for anyone to complain about the DOD finally completing an audit.  What would the complaint be?  We were better off not knowing?  That wouldn't make sense. Maybe that it wasn't worth the cost if DOGE runs up huge bills to get it done, but at the same time it's a huge task that's never been done before.

[Scouts Honor]

i know who will complain

[Le duke]

They should stop veterans preference for government jobs. That's about as DEI as it gets. They get a lot of under- or unqualified people in those positions as a result. 

Kind of kidding, but, VP is literally DEI.

 

Edited March 17 by Le duke

[red viking]

12 minutes ago, Le duke said:

They should stop veterans preference for government jobs. That's about as DEI as it gets. They get a lot of under- or unqualified people in those positions as a result. 

 

 

 

The preference is negligible. It may help them get an interview but not the actual job. 

[Husker_Du]

26 minutes ago, Le duke said:

They should stop veterans preference for government jobs. That's about as DEI as it gets.

They get a lot of under- or unqualified people in those positions as a result. 

 

you don't know what DEI means. 

[Offthemat]

 

[fishbane]

7 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

 

This lady's numbers don't add up.  It's total nonsense. The largest item in the ED budget is $160.7 to the Office of Federal Student aid. How is there $220 billion let to give to consultants that donate it back to the democrats and other consultants and NGOs like she says?  It's not possible and she is making it up.

[Offthemat]

6 minutes ago, fishbane said:

This lady's numbers don't add up.  It's total nonsense. The largest item in the ED budget is $160.7 to the Office of Federal Student aid. How is there $220 billion let to give to consultants that donate it back to the democrats and other consultants and NGOs like she says?  It's not possible and she is making it up.

I think the DoE spends more than $167 for financial aid, but her numbers could be off a little and the fraud be no less relevant.

[fishbane]

2 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

I think the DoE spends more than $167 for financial aid, but her numbers could be off a little and the fraud be no less relevant.

You're right.  The budget is $160.7 billion.  There likely exists some level of fraud, but that wouldn't make her number any less made up. 

[mspart]

She said the budget was about 280 billion.   The google says:

How much does the US Department of Education spend? The Department of Education spent $268 billion in fiscal year (FY) 2024. This was 4.0% of the $6.8 trillion in overall federal spending.

So it looks like she was very close on with the ED budget and you are not Fishy.   That makes her number way more less made up than yours.  

Where you might have an issue is that she says less than 25% of that goes to educating students.   That leaves around 200 Billion for something else.   She said that leaves 220 billion, but a quick calculation of 75% of 280 billion is 210 billion.   The real number at 75% is 201 billion.   Again not far off like you are.  

Regardless, how does only 25% get to students?   I think that is the better question to ask and really the most important reason the Dept exists, is to get money to help students. 

So if you could figure that out it would be helpful.   Money to NGOs etc does not count.   That is what she is complaining about.   If you disagree with her, please show how she is wrong.  

mspart

 

 

 

[fishbane]

18 minutes ago, mspart said:

She said the budget was about 280 billion.   The google says:

How much does the US Department of Education spend? The Department of Education spent $268 billion in fiscal year (FY) 2024. This was 4.0% of the $6.8 trillion in overall federal spending.

So it looks like she was very close on with the ED budget and you are not Fishy.   That makes her number way more less made up than yours.  

Where you might have an issue is that she says less than 25% of that goes to educating students.   That leaves around 200 Billion for something else.   She said that leaves 220 billion, but a quick calculation of 75% of 280 billion is 210 billion.   The real number at 75% is 201 billion.   Again not far off like you are.  

Regardless, how does only 25% get to students?   I think that is the better question to ask and really the most important reason the Dept exists, is to get money to help students. 

So if you could figure that out it would be helpful.   Money to NGOs etc does not count.   That is what she is complaining about.   If you disagree with her, please show how she is wrong.  

mspart

I didn't give a number for the overall budget.  I agree with your figure of $268 Billion for the overall budget for 2024.  I said that the largest item in that budget is $160.7 billion that goes to the office of federal student aid.   Are you disputing that as made up Sparty?  Other than forgetting the B the first time wrote it I think it's pretty accurate.

I didn't have a problem with her saying $280B for the overall budget or even the inconsistency between saying 25% of $280 makes it to students and $220B alleged wasted to Bureaucrats/Consultants/Dem kickbacks/NGOs.   Taking her numbers to characterize fraud as conservatively as possible it would be $70B going to students and $210B in Bureaucrat/Consultant/Dem kickback/NGO waste.  This would mean that at most $70 billion of the $160.7B budget of the Office of Federal Student aid makes it to students as aid/work study/grants/loans with $90B in Bureaucrat/Consultant/Dem kickback/NGO waste and nothing else the ED spends money on makes even a dollar back to students. The other 40% or more of the budget is 100% Bureaucrat/Consultant/Dem kickback/NGO waste.

That doesn't seem possible.  It would mean that the Office of Federal Student Aid could only deliver $70B in aid annually to students.  The office reports over $100B in aid delivered every year for over 5 straight years. Explain the apparent discrepency?

[mspart]

OK, it sounded like you were disputing which is why I wrote what I did.   Looking up the expenditures is not easy so I just looked up what I thought you were getting on about.  

I disagree  that it seems improbable that the money didn't go to students but to organanziations that say they are for students.   USAID expenditures shows us that.   Spending on green stuff that goes to Stacey Abrams shows us that.   So I don't have any problem with that, I just can't say it is true or not because the data is not readily available to me.  

It is apparent that whatever is spend is not effective at having students be more prepared for life.   Test scores are near their lowest and it has been dropping for years.   If the expenditures are supposed make for better student scores, it is failing miserably. 

mspart

[red viking]

Dept of Education is pretty important and we get a lot of bang for the buck w this spending. It's only 4% of the federal budget and gives a lot of poor and handicapped kids a shot at a decent education. 

Rich people hate it because it creates a more level playing field, instead of the rich peoples' kids getting an even bigger advantage in life than they already have. 

[fishbane]

I get that in the case of USAID spending might be far removed from the average American.  We don't see any of the money and it's easy to classify it as waste.  The Department of Education isn't like that.   Over half the budget goes to the office of federal student aid.  I know many many people who received federal aid for college.   I used a Stafford Loan as did my siblings and parents.  I would be pretty shocked if you didn't personally know anyone that received federal aid for college.  Anecdotally it seems like a lot of money finds its way to students.  With 75% waste not even half of it could actually reach students.

1 hour ago, mspart said:

It is apparent that whatever is spend is not effective at having students be more prepared for life.   Test scores are near their lowest and it has been dropping for years.   If the expenditures are supposed make for better student scores, it is failing miserably. 

mspart

I don't know that this is true, but even if this is true it seems like it's applicable to K-12 education which is less than half of the ED budget.  Below are some long term trends in reading and math scores for 9 year old students.  It seems like scores had a generally upward trend in both disciplines until 2020.  The 2020 and 2021 school years had some unique challenges related to the pandemic and remote learning, but perhaps when Biden took office the ED pivoted to Bureaucrat/Consultant/Dem kickback/NGO fraud/waste/abuse and that caused the drop in scores.  

[red viking]

Pretty sad that we're focused on cutting education funding for poor and handicapped kids while nobody seems to be in favor of cutting social security funding for people that are already very wealthy and don't need the money whatsoever. 

[Bigbrog]

Here we go again...RV just spewing emotional comments with zero facts/data/evidence to back it up...

[red viking]

8 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

Here we go again...RV just spewing emotional comments with zero facts/data/evidence to back it up...

It is factual. Look at this thread and numerous other threads. Look at Trump, Musk and Congress. Very few if any people are willing to address our social security, Medicare or bloated military waste. They just waste time talking about making cuts to programs or expenses (e.g. employees) that are already extremely small. 

The idiot wingers are gonna cheer for these microscopic DOGE cuts while overall deficit spending and military waste, and possibly total spending will continue to skyrocket.

What a joke. 

Edited March 18 by red viking

[Caveira]

48 minutes ago, red viking said:

It is factual. Look at this thread and numerous other threads. Look at Trump, Musk and Congress. Very few if any people are willing to address our social security, Medicare or bloated military waste. They just waste time talking about making cuts to programs or expenses (e.g. employees) that are already extremely small. 

The idiot wingers are gonna cheer for these microscopic DOGE cuts while overall deficit spending and military waste, and possibly total spending will continue to skyrocket.

What a joke. 

 

[Scouts Honor]

13 hours ago, red viking said:

Pretty sad that we're focused on cutting education funding for poor and handicapped kids while nobody seems to be in favor of cutting social security funding for people that are already very wealthy and don't need the money whatsoever. 

i agree, we really should send those kids to better schools

[Scouts Honor]

someone was saying that trump supporters are stupid...

 

[fishbane]

12 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

someone was saying that trump supporters are stupid...

 

Congress passed the Foreign Assistance Act on September 4, 1961, which reorganized U.S. foreign assistance programs and mandated the creation of an agency to administer economic aid. USAID was subsequently established by the executive order of President John F. Kennedy, who sought to unite several existing foreign assistance organizations and programs under one agency

Maybe don't get your news from Insurrection Barbie.  Kennedy did it because congress passed a law that said he had to do it.

[Scouts Honor]

so you mean he didn't just ignore the laws?