This explains a lot (lack of stall calls on top)

[1032004]

 

 

[Dark Energy]

Well, that sucks.  Parallel ride is fine it seems.  Double boots and just drive down to mat is fine.  
 

Seriously, WTF?  

[1032004]

  On 1/10/2023 at 3:45 AM, Dark Energy said:

Well, that sucks.  Parallel ride is fine it seems.  Double boots and just drive down to mat is fine.  
 

Seriously, WTF?  

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Yeah, the Daton Fix double boot stall ride is pretty much the ultimate ride according to that.

[Scouts Honor]

it makes sense to a point... b/c by riding i can accumulate a point.

so i am trying to score...

but...

[wrestlingshoe]

What stands out to me more are the "general purpose stalling rules" mentioned first.  It doesn't seem like those are applied effectively nor correctly... Considered stalling when "Attempting to avoid wrestling" (5.7.1). "Offensive and defensive wrestlers shall make an attempt to sustain active wrestling and remain in the competition circle" (5.7.11).  "Action is to be maintained throughout the match by wrestlers staying near the center of the mat and wrestling aggressively in all positions."

[flyingcement]

I hate when stalling gets called on the guy who is glued to the mat on bottom instead of the guy on top with parallel ride

[1032004]

  On 1/10/2023 at 5:17 PM, flyingcement said:

I hate when stalling gets called on the guy who is glued to the mat on bottom instead of the guy on top with parallel ride

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Same, but apparently that's the direction...

[Formally140]

  On 1/10/2023 at 5:17 PM, flyingcement said:

I hate when stalling gets called on the guy who is glued to the mat on bottom instead of the guy on top with parallel ride

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Same. Then I get the “well it depends on the bottom guy.. no he’s riding parallel

[mspart]

Stalling on top guy should be "not trying to score or improve their position".   Not trying for the fall should be in the list of stalling.   Improving your position is getting the bottom guy to his back.   From there it is to pin.  This does not incentivize the top wrestler to do anything other than stay in the middle and STALL. 

mspart

[Eagle26]

  On 1/10/2023 at 6:27 PM, mspart said:

Stalling on top guy should be "not trying to score or improve their position".   Not trying for the fall should be in the list of stalling.   Improving your position is getting the bottom guy to his back.   From there it is to pin.  This does not incentivize the top wrestler to do anything other than stay in the middle and STALL. 

mspart

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The problem is that technically the top guy is trying to score by securing riding time. So therefore riding is not stalling. I hate it too, but apparently we need a rule change to address it.

[1032004]

  On 1/10/2023 at 9:03 PM, Eagle26 said:

The problem is that technically the top guy is trying to score by securing riding time. So therefore riding is not stalling. I hate it too, but apparently we need a rule change to address it.

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Correct.  High school rules say offensive wrestler must work for a fall, so seems pretty simple to add it to college

[flyingcement]

If we remove the riding time point, I also wouldn't be too upset

[1032004]

  On 1/10/2023 at 9:11 PM, flyingcement said:

If we remove the riding time point, I also wouldn't be too upset

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I’m in favor of needing to score near fall in order to get the RT point

[gimpeltf]

I don't see where it mentions scoring.

Art. 11. Stalling — Offensive and Defensive Position. Offensive and defensive
wrestlers shall make an attempt to sustain active wrestling and remain in the
competition circle.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

Really bad for the sport...

[1032004]

  On 1/10/2023 at 9:59 PM, gimpeltf said:

I don't see where it mentions scoring.

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It does for the defensive wrestler, but not the offensive one, which seems a bit hypocritical

[Wrestleknownothing]

If the defensive wrestler is rewarded for escaping why shouldn't the offensive wrestler be allowed to prevent him from escaping? It seems symmetrical.

[Nailbender]

  On 1/11/2023 at 2:41 AM, Wrestleknownothing said:

If the defensive wrestler is rewarded for escaping why shouldn't the offensive wrestler be allowed to prevent him from escaping? It seems symmetrical.

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Because it's boring.

 

I am a huge fan of a real hammer in the top position. The claw ride and thigh pry frustrate me to no end. The encouragement to ride through increased points for a turn and the riding time point were welcomed by me but more is needed to fix the unintended consequence of more stalling on top.

[1032004]

  On 1/11/2023 at 2:41 AM, Wrestleknownothing said:

If the defensive wrestler is rewarded for escaping why shouldn't the offensive wrestler be allowed to prevent him from escaping? It seems symmetrical.

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If they are in the process of escaping sure, but why is the defensive wrestler required to try to escape but the offensive wrestler apparently doesn’t have to do anything except be “active”?

Guess we can add this to the sequel to Stall Camp:  

“I try not to think of it as stalling, I think of it as ‘escape prevention.’”

[mspart]

  On 1/10/2023 at 9:10 PM, 1032004 said:

Correct.  High school rules say offensive wrestler must work for a fall, so seems pretty simple to add it to college

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This!

mspart

[1032004]

Side note, but I did also get a laugh out of Kevin Ward criticizing Mark Branch for saying he “doesn’t have enough time” to read a 2 page document (but he did have enough time to reply twice in the tweet thread)

 

 

 

[Offthemat]

Stalling is problematic all the way around.  It’s boring to watch, it doesn’t get called consistently, and the idea of a referee awarding unearned points is bad.  If they’re not going to call stalling on the top wrestler- okay, but don’t award points to a superior top wrestler because an inferior wrestler can’t manage to escape without exposing himself to a turning predicament.  I suggest that at a second stalling call, stop the match and restart it with the non-stalling wrestler having choice of starting position; limited to bottom or neutral if he was on top when stalling was called.  That’s my suggestion, anyway. 

[ionel]

  On 1/12/2023 at 1:47 AM, Offthemat said:

Stalling is problematic all the way around.  It’s boring to watch, it doesn’t get called consistently, and the idea of a referee awarding unearned points is bad.  If they’re not going to call stalling on the top wrestler- okay, but don’t award points to a superior top wrestler because an inferior wrestler can’t manage to escape without exposing himself to a turning predicament.  I suggest that at a second stalling call, stop the match and restart it with the non-stalling wrestler having choice of starting position; limited to bottom or neutral if he was on top when stalling was called.  That’s my suggestion, anyway. 

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It is so much better than it was 15/20 years ago.

[Pinnacle]

Me and some friends played golf at Whistling Straits. That place has a lot of sand traps. One of my friends complains to the head pro "There are too many sand traps on this blasted golf course!". Head pro says back, "If you don't like them then why did you hit the ball there?".

If you don't like your plight on bottom, then why'd you let your opponent take you down? 

[Offthemat]

  On 1/12/2023 at 3:46 AM, ionel said:

It is so much better than it was 15/20 years ago.

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It’s purpose was to promote more action, making the sport more interesting and preventing inaction as a strategy.  A lot of people find it distasteful for a ref to award points.  With a restart in a different position the action is likely to pick up and the wrestlers still have to score their own points, just like penalties in other sports.