Josh Barr?

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

How impressive is Barr's 10-1 win over Lucas Cochran and his 11-0 win over Mirasola?

Cochran beat #8 HWT Yaraslau Slavikouski 8-3 last year while weighing under 197 pounds.

[Truzzcat]

1 hour ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

How impressive is Barr's 10-1 win over Lucas Cochran and his 11-0 win over Mirasola?

Cochran beat #8 HWT Yaraslau Slavikouski 8-3 last year while weighing under 197 pounds.

Everyone brings up the Slav win which was awesome, but they always fail to mention that he lost to Cardenas 13-6 and Beard 20-6. The Barr match was also 2-1 with 40 seconds to go and cochran was in on a shot that I will say Barr maneuvered out of masterfully. As far as the Mirasola win goes I think it more so shows that he is not where I thought he would be coming out of high school. Sinclair teched him at senior trials and then sinclair went on to lose to Andy smith pretty badly so I think we may have had too high of expectations for those guys. I do think Barr is absolutely in contention to AA but with as deep as 197 is this year I am not placing him high on my podium at least not yet.

[Pinnacle]

Truzzcat, the one thing I am noticing is that vs. the last two years I think Barr is growing in confidence. Mentally I think he is ready to start to win a round of 16 or quarterfinals match at NCAA. I think even against Cochran I have to respect how he closed that match out.

[Truzzcat]

One thing I wanted to add if there was any truth to what Mineo said about the wrestle off. We now have two data points where Josh Barr in a short period fo time was able to make some pretty crazy adjustments. The Sinclair matches and now this. If that were all to be true I would not be betting against Barr when he gets a second crack against guys.

[macwoodfleet]

Barr is going to win the weight come march. You can bookmark this.

[Winners Circle]

On 11/25/2024 at 8:19 AM, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

How impressive is Barr's 10-1 win over Lucas Cochran and his 11-0 win over Mirasola?

Cochran beat #8 HWT Yaraslau Slavikouski 8-3 last year while weighing under 197 pounds.

Major decisions over a lifetime backup and a kid fresh out of high school? Not impressive to me. I think Barr is going to be (or already is) really good. But I don't think either of these wins say anything.

[Nittanychris]

The win over Connor Mirasola is especially impressive. Connor is a stud who would likely AA this year as a true Freshman, if he wasn't redshirting. Barr will be a problem at 197 come March.

[PSUDad97]

On 11/26/2024 at 9:48 AM, Winners Circle said:

Major decisions over a lifetime backup and a kid fresh out of high school? Not impressive to me. I think Barr is going to be (or already is) really good. But I don't think either of these wins say anything.

Not all backups are created equal, nor are true freshmen, especially when they are at PSU.  You seem very hard to impress, wonder what your wrestling resume looks like.  

[Winners Circle]

6 minutes ago, PSUDad97 said:

Not all backups are created equal, nor are true freshmen, especially when they are at PSU.  You seem very hard to impress, wonder what your wrestling resume looks like.  

It's better than yours I promise you that 

[Winners Circle]

17 minutes ago, PSUDad97 said:

Not all backups are created equal, nor are true freshmen, especially when they are at PSU.  You seem very hard to impress, wonder what your wrestling resume looks like.  

To this point, following the Black Knight Invite, FloWrestling has Barr ranked #21 and InterMat has him #23. The two biggest ranking services must be "very hard to impress".

[juniorvarsity]

I had always assumed Josh Barr was going 197 because he could not go 184 this year. Some people are going to need to transfer out, but we will see. Penn State logjam is a permanent conversation. Mirasola is a beast. We can go on and on and spell it all out, but you all already know.

[bnwtwg]

On 11/26/2024 at 8:48 AM, Winners Circle said:

Major decisions over a lifetime backup and a kid fresh out of high school? Not impressive to me. I think Barr is going to be (or already is) really good. But I don't think either of these wins say anything.

Well that high school kid took down the olympic bronze medalist who was one ankle dive brain fart away from the gold medal match, so he is probably not a scrub like you and I were

[Winners Circle]

1 minute ago, bnwtwg said:

Well that high school kid took down the olympic bronze medalist who was one ankle dive brain fart away from the gold medal match, so he is probably not a scrub like you and I were

Lmao. Everyone getting mad because I said exactly what FloWrestling and Intermat said when they ranked Barr #21/#23 following these wins. Barr is really good. But these wins don't justify him being ranked top 10. Just give him time. 

[Winners Circle]

4 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Well that high school kid took down the olympic bronze medalist who was one ankle dive brain fart away from the gold medal match, so he is probably not a scrub like you and I were

So Mirasola's biggest accomplishment to you is a match he ALMOST won and got a single takedown in? Yea, you're right, you absolutely were a scrub based on this thought process.

[PSUDad97]

23 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

To this point, following the Black Knight Invite, FloWrestling has Barr ranked #21 and InterMat has him #23. The two biggest ranking services must be "very hard to impress".

And Luke Lilledahl is ranked 24th.  Do you understand how they choose to place wrestlers just entering the rankings?  Apparently not...

[Winners Circle]

3 minutes ago, PSUDad97 said:

And Luke Lilledahl is ranked 24th.  Do you understand how they choose to place wrestlers just entering the rankings?  Apparently not...

Thank you. That's exactly my point!! I never said Barr wasn't good. In fact, I said the opposite. But these two wins, which are the best on his resume, do not justify him being ranked any higher because those two guys don't have a college resume themselves. Flo and IM agreed exactly with what I said. Do I think there are 20+ guys at 197 better than Barr? Hell no. But these two wins don't mean much.

Edited November 27 by Winners Circle

[Le duke]

4 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Well that high school kid took down the olympic bronze medalist who was one ankle dive brain fart away from the gold medal match, so he is probably not a scrub like you and I were

The problem with Flo and Intermat is that they rely upon results and not the eye test, if that makes sense. I understand why they do it and they are consistent but I don't think that's the best approach. 

Example: I didn't have to see Luke Lilledahl beat some guy ranked XXth in the country at 125 to put in him the top 16. I've seen him beat Jore Volk and Troy Spratley three times in the last two years. I get it, freestyle vs folk. I don't care. 

[Winners Circle]

Just now, Le duke said:

The problem with Flo and Intermat is that they rely upon results and not the eye test, if that makes sense. I understand why they do it and they are consistent but I don't think that's the best approach. 

Example: I didn't have to see Luke Lilledahl beat some guy ranked XXth in the country at 125 to put in him the top 16. I've seen him beat Jore Volk and Troy Spratley three times in the last two years. I get it, freestyle vs folk. I don't care. 

I agree with this. And that was my whole point with Barr. I know how good he is, really damn good. Him beating Lucas Cochran and Mirasola did nothing for me because I ALREADY KNEW HE WAS GOOD.

[VakAttack]

On 11/25/2024 at 10:37 PM, macwoodfleet said:

Barr is going to win the weight come march. You can bookmark this.

I'll take that bet.

[macwoodfleet]

2 hours ago, Le duke said:

The problem with Flo and Intermat is that they rely upon results and not the eye test, if that makes sense. I understand why they do it and they are consistent but I don't think that's the best approach. 

Example: I didn't have to see Luke Lilledahl beat some guy ranked XXth in the country at 125 to put in him the top 16. I've seen him beat Jore Volk and Troy Spratley three times in the last two years. I get it, freestyle vs folk. I don't care. 

I don't think it's a problem to rely on college folkstyle results to rank college folkstyle wrestlers.

[Wrestleknownothing]

All models are bad, but some are useful.

[Truzzcat]

I often look at freestyle results as a predictor for college results, but two things results that always give me some skepticism are carter youngs third place at the world team trials in 2021 and Carson kharchla teching mehki during one of those covid rtc things. Im sure there are other examples.

[scourge165]

6 hours ago, Truzzcat said:

I often look at freestyle results as a predictor for college results, but two things results that always give me some skepticism are carter youngs third place at the world team trials in 2021 and Carson kharchla teching mehki during one of those covid rtc things. Im sure there are other examples.

I think that's why you look at HOW the matches played out.

Namely...were they competitive on their feet or did a seasoned MFS Wrestler get a lace and tech a guy. 

[scourge165]

8 hours ago, Winners Circle said:

Lmao. Everyone getting mad because I said exactly what FloWrestling and Intermat said when they ranked Barr #21/#23 following these wins. Barr is really good. But these wins don't justify him being ranked top 10. Just give him time. 

No, I don't think "everyone" cares enough about your opinion enough to get mad...I think the see you being willfully obtuse and describing Cochran and Mirasola merely as "career backups and a kid fresh out of HS."

As though they're not just a TOUCH more than that. And then you go on to say ignorant *I poop my pants, don't laugh at me* like- So Mirasola's biggest accomplishment to you is a match he ALMOST won and got a single takedown in? -When talking about AARON BROOKS. 

Yes, the fact that he could stand in there and at least compete with the guy who just walked through 197 on his way to his 4th title would suggest he's more than just "some kid fresh out of HS.

 

It's absolutely NOT about the bottom line ranking early in the season, it's about how you dismiss how he's Wrestled...but to disagree with you apparently makes one a scrub. I'm alright with that...

[scourge165]

6 hours ago, macwoodfleet said:

I don't think it's a problem to rely on college folkstyle results to rank college folkstyle wrestlers.

Not at all...

But when Marcus Blaze, Forrest or these types of kids walk onto a College Campus, we also won't pretend they're...just a couple kids fresh out of HS and no different than all the rest. 

It doesn't really matter ultimately, it won't until seeding time, but we now Barr pretty clearly appears to be a top 5-8 Wrestler at this point.